N A W A C - Field Study Discussion

[georgerm]

Go Bipto and bring in the proof that science wants and prove to my family that I'm not a Bigfoot fool.

[1980squatch]

Great stories Bipto, thanks much for sharing!

[the parkie]

Wha-? There was three of us. So, me and two others.

I had just assumed it was an uncertain macro quantum event, disappointed to discover it was just a typo!

Edited December 18, 2013 by the parkie

[the parkie]

 

 

Good to see I'm not alone when I listen to that. Did you hear "back away" too? 

 

Just listened to this again out of curiosity, and I did hear that.

[Guest]

It didn't "say" anything. That's just what is sounds like. Our guys were stationary and had been for a long time. They weren't advancing or even moving around. There would have been no reason to tell us to "get away." Neither would any of our guys have said anything like that. Indeed, they were hoping the animals would come in closer.

[southernyahoo]

It's happened to me at least three times I can remember. All of these were at night, very dark.

 

The first time was the same night I heard (and felt) something large and bipedal walk up to the cabin and pull/push on it. I've related that story on the podcast. Earlier in the night, three of us were sitting near the fire. My truck was backed up into that area and I was sitting at the back of it in a camp chair. For no particular reason (other than I wanted to have some artificial light for a while), I decided to unlock the truck using its key remote. All the lights, including the headlights, lit up and, a split second later, a large THUMP happened immediately in front of my truck followed by the sounds of something running off through the bush. At the time, I wasn't sure what that was. It was very close and we had no idea. Based on later experiences, I now think that was a relatively small ape up a tree looking down and over the truck at what we were doing. The headlights likely scared the crap out of it. 

 

The second time was that same night. I walked around another of the trucks to get away from the fire so I could relieve myself (when in Rome...). As soon as I cleared the truck, a large animal about twelve or fifteen feet away turned and took off toward the mountain slope. The other guys came over to where I was to investigate and moments later a rock landed on the ground immediately behind us. It was thrown from the tree line on the other side of the fire, approximately 20 feet away. Along with the one spooked in front of my truck, that means they were on three sides of us and we had no idea. We never heard them approach. 

 

The third time was on my last trip. My tent was pitched near my truck which was blocking the area where I heard something drop from the tree before. As I approached the tent, I swerved over to the truck to drop some gear on the tailgate. As soon as I got to the truck, I heard from the bush just beyond it very clear and distinct foot steps away from me and deeper into the cover. CRUNCH, CRUNCH, CRUNCH. Followed by one of the strangest things I've experienced there. Whispered gibberish, so low I wasn't even sure I was hearing it (honestly couldn't believe I was hearing it). I've been truly freaked out in X about 4 or 5 times and that was one of them. Whatever was stepping back away from me and whispering gibberish couldn't have been more than ten or fifteen feet from me. 

 

As a group, we have many stories like this. They come close when they can. No doubt about it. 

 

Interesting stuff here. They do seem to be so stealthy when they want to be. Sometimes you hear the steps and sometimes you don't. I've had the steps so close I couldn't believe I didn't see or film what it was, inspite of the camera being right on the area of the sounds. The manipulation and distraction tactics are also well documented. The probing, testing and provoking described is exactly what my group has picked up on, just from listening to approaches to recorders in the field. They test you and your gadgets before they get close.

 

It's stuff like this that leans me away the basic animal behavior and into sentience in this species.

[Lake County Bigfooot]

Is the shaking of the cabin seen as aggressive behavior, or do you think it just wanted to get

some reaction.  I mean if it wanted to dismantle the cabin I am sure it would have.  I find the

interactions you described interesting in that the hairy participants seem generally passive, so

why would this one be so bold, young male, territorial behavior?  Just wondering your take on

it....thanks

[Drew]

Blue is DWA writing

 

 

Doesn't compute.

If you want to forestall conflict, you don't chuck rocks at people, and howl really loud near them.  YES.  YOU.  DO!!!!!!!!!  I think this is what you don't get.  Scores and scores and scores of known animals - like OMG look at that ALL KNOWN PRIMATES - do it; it's called "intimidation," the world's most tested, by far, way of forestalling conflict.  Right, Teddy???  "BULLY!!!!!"  [waves Big Stick]

No. if you want to forestall conflict, you don't huck rocks at a cabin full of sleeping people.

If you want to forestall conflict, you don't howl at people who have no idea where you are.

 

 

This is a huge problem with the bigfoot reports. 

 

NOPE.  It's NOT.  It is very consistent with what is reported for known, highly elusive, apes.  Apes that, if they aren't pushing trees over on you, or crapping down on your head, or hooting en masse at you, or throwing vegetation at you, you could be in their territory for months and never know they were there.  Like - surprise! - another well-known primate, they pick their spots.

It is a problem because the an Ape doing the things you list above, or hucking rocks, or shaking your cabin, IS NOT forestalling conflict, it is instigating conflict.

If we have an animal that instigates contact regularly (see reports), we should have a Type Specimen.  Just like all the other apes in the World that were not elusive just like Bigfoot.

 

 

 

You can't be elusive, AND huck rocks at people.

You can't be elusive, AND howl menacingly near people.

You can't be an utter absolutist about anything, and understand nature much.

 

An animal can't cross roads and not eventually get hit by a car, an animal can't approach a village's children and not get killed or hunted down.  These are absolutes that humans have placed on Nature.

 

 

 

 

If you are elusive, you don't instigate conflict, or give away your position.

Right.  Deer NEVER do that, and this is why none are ever killed.  Good point that I'm glad you made.  (Or maybe it's that AR is totally deforested.  I can never get that straight.)

 

Perfect, the elusive deer killed by the hundreds of thousands in Michigan alone, both by hunters and by vehicle collisions.

 

 

Of course Bigfoot can get away with it, and I am pretty sure I know why.

 

You do.  Nobody believes anybody who says they saw one.  See, you did.

 

 

 

Whut?

Edited December 18, 2013 by Drew

[Terry]

It sure makes sense to me that if a supposed bf was aware and conscious of the fact it wanted to stay off the human radar that it would be quiet, stay away from people and live/hide in remote areas.  If, like other apes and animals, it ISN'T aware, it would hoot and holler, be seen and throw stones as it happily goes about its life making a living.  The fact that the latter is often reported tells me that bf is not trying to stay hidden more than any other animal.  Therefore I would think a specimen would have been collected long before now or at least recognized by science to exist.  It hasn't, probably because there's no such thing.  

 

t.

[the parkie]

Drew and DWA

Aren't these points more suited to the "Does Bigfoot Exist" thread? A thread that has been started for people to discuss this very point.

[Sunflower]

It sure makes sense to me that if a supposed bf was aware and conscious of the fact it wanted to stay off the human radar that it would be quiet, stay away from people and live/hide in remote areas.  If, like other apes and animals, it ISN'T aware, it would hoot and holler, be seen and throw stones as it happily goes about its life making a living.  The fact that the latter is often reported tells me that bf is not trying to stay hidden more than any other animal.  Therefore I would think a specimen would have been collected long before now or at least recognized by science to exist.  It hasn't, probably because there's no such thing.  

 

t.

 

 

There is such a thing and it regularly visits some people's homes and they have no doubt what is taking their peaches and apples. 

 

And no matter how many times you say "there's no such thing" it will not make anyone who has had a encounter believe that quote.

[Guest DWA]

[some wrong stuff]

 

This is about ...look up there at the title.  Read up; see I'm right; and let's not derail the thread again.

 

[He could not have missed the wry point about the deer.  But he did.]

[norseman]

I think Drew's assumptions are wrong.

Animals that are elusive generally do intimidate intruders as oppose to open confrontation.

So throwing rocks at a cabin to get intruders to leave the area is much less aggressive than smashing your way in and killing everything inside.

And apes generally are elusive and generally use intimidation tactics vs out right attack.

[Guest DWA]

^^^^That.

 

To wit, the story of Mike.  Sound familiar, NAWAC...?

 

http://www.lessonsforhope.org/abc/show_description.asp?abc_id=31

 

"The meek inheriting the earth," in a nutshell.  Mike never had to hit anybody or sink a tooth in anything.  Just toss cans and #WINNING!

 

The apes in X do all their yelling and screaming and particularly rocktossing OUT OF SIGHT of the people they're displaying at.  Not by any definition "courting conflict."  And that about 35 of them haven't been shot and strung up around that cabin - and immersion in habitat, with intensely curious animals, leads to nothing more than the occasional glimpse and the vanishingly-rare shot opportunity - practically defines "elusive."

But it couldn't be more standard-issue ape behavior.

It sure makes sense to me that if a supposed bf was aware and conscious of the fact it wanted to stay off the human radar that it would be quiet, stay away from people and live/hide in remote areas.  If, like other apes and animals, it ISN'T aware, it would hoot and holler, be seen and throw stones as it happily goes about its life making a living.  The fact that the latter is often reported tells me that bf is not trying to stay hidden more than any other animal.  Therefore I would think a specimen would have been collected long before now or at least recognized by science to exist.  It hasn't, probably because there's no such thing.  

 

t.

 

Well, that's an assumption that isn't backed up by the evidence, much of which shows just how the people one would expect to be collecting that specimen react to its intimidation behavior, many of them with heavy bows or high-powered rifles in their hands.

 

Totally understandable human reactions to standard issue ape behavior, described by people with no experience with the known apes.

 

That says more to me than faulty assumptions do.

[the parkie]

Bipto

Has anyone ever found any 'caches' of stones or projectiles within throwing distance of the cabin, or has anyone discovered a 'zone' where things have been thrown from?