N A W A C - Field Study Discussion

[JanV]

I doubt that the throwing if small stones and pebbles is anything more than a kid stirring up an ants nest then sitting back to watch the fun. The BF probably enjoy getting a reaction from the humans.

Edited December 18, 2013 by JanV

[salubrious]

 

An animal can't cross roads and not eventually get hit by a car, an animal can't approach a village's children and not get killed or hunted down.  These are absolutes that humans have placed on Nature.

 

The last few years have shown that we humans have not placed any absolutes on Nature. This seems to me an assumption that could result in problems if one treated it as the truth when out in the woods.

 

 

It hasn't, probably because there's no such thing.  

I regard this as a belief. In that regard, something different than knowing. At any rate, it does not matter, such a belief will probably serve almost anyone just fine, elusive as these creatures are. But if you ever have an encounter, be ready to see that belief go out the window in a heartbeat.

[Lake County Bigfooot]

You know how darn right carnivorous a chimpanzee can be, and even just

for the purpose of harming it's victim, as in chewing off peoples hands and

faces.  I mean if a chimp can decide to go off the deep end and start devouring

a human, it only would make sense that other apes could have that potential 

as well, and for that matter ape/human types.  So I would surmise that based on this

logic a few of this type of Bigfoot might exist.  I mean sometimes it 

is very difficult to know the intentions of an animal, it could seem completely

passive then it turns on you.  If these kind of rouges exist among these creatures

then perhaps those horror flicks depicting a blood thirsty monster, well that still

might be a possibility, we simply cannot tell.  The missing people in the National

Parks being discussed might be our best clue to whether Sasquatch indeed 

prey on humans....just a "special" thought to warm your holiday's....

 

 As a storm chaser our community was always saying, someone is going to get killed, we 

are just getting to close to the action, and indeed that has happened,  I have not

heard anyone sounding a warning about something bad happening here, but

Ape Canyon might have turned out different if those guys had been stubborn and

stuck around, in fact we might not even have ever heard the story, just some missing miners!

We get lulled into a false sense of the warm fuzzy's with these guys, we cannot forget

the history that says otherwise. Which is not to make them all man eaters, or even most or many,

just perhaps some.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Lake County Bigfooot

[Guest]

Is the shaking of the cabin seen as aggressive behavior, or do you think it just wanted to get

some reaction.  

 

I don't think it was shaking the cabin. It wasn't that violent. In trying to recreate what happened and what it felt like, I think it was simply stepping up on the porch and the cabin's age and the porch's unstable foundation led to the whole structure shifting quite noticeably.

 

We have had them slap the cabin on several occasions. I can't say what their reasoning is for doing that but I could speculate it's an escalated version of throwing a rock. Maybe it's their way of saying they want us to come back out and play.

Has anyone ever found any 'caches' of stones or projectiles within throwing distance of the cabin, or has anyone discovered a 'zone' where things have been thrown from?

 

Possibly. It's hard to say. There is an abundance of rocks there. They probably wouldn't need to cache them. Another is always at hand. 

The BF probably enjoy getting a reaction from the humans.

 

That's what I think. At least the ones who throw the smaller rocks. 

[the parkie]

Has anyone tried throwing any stones back?!

[Guest]

Oh yes. All the time. Doesn't stop them. Might even encourage them.

[Drew]

I think Drew's assumptions are wrong. 

 

Animals that are elusive generally do intimidate intruders as oppose to open confrontation.

So throwing rocks at a cabin to get intruders to leave the area is much less aggressive than smashing your way in and killing everything inside.

 

 

You forgot the most important part of my assumption, animals that do these things end up Dead.

 

If the elusive Wood Ape is hucking rocks at cabins, and bluff charging at guys with guns in riverbeds, it should be dead.  If not by NAWAC, at some time in the past, someone should have killed one.  

Animals with tendencies to intimidate, hurt or scare humans in or near their living or play spaces, inevitably end up dead.

 

 

Examples of elusive creatures that often get to close to human settlements.

 

See Grizzly Bears

See Black Bears

See Leopards

See Lions

See Snakes

See sharks

 

Humans have never in their history, allowed nature to come into their space without fatal responses.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Drew

[norseman]

You forgot the most important part of my assumption, animals that do these things end up Dead.

If the elusive Wood Ape is hucking rocks at cabins, and bluff charging at guys with guns in riverbeds, it should be dead. If not by NAWAC, at some time in the past, someone should have killed one.

Animals with tendencies to intimidate, hurt or scare humans in or near their living or play spaces, inevitably end up dead.

Examples of elusive creatures that often get to close to human settlements.

See Grizzly Bears

See Black Bears

See Leopards

See Lions

See Snakes

See sharks

Humans have never in their history, allowed nature to come into their space without fatal responses.

Drew,

Grizzly bears are not elusive at all . Rare in the lower 48? Yes. But they attempt to hide from

No one.

Take cougar for example. I know I have them on

My ranch I have seen there tracks and there kills but I've never seen one.

Throwing rocks as a intimidation tactic is good for an elusive animal because you only see the rock......never the animal. And generally the idea is for you to leave the area quickly.

Grizzly bears do not throw rocks......they charge. And at the last second either break off or commit. That is a very different tactic than throwing rocks and much more aggressive. It also allows for the animal to be killed by humans easier.

Lastly? What makes you so sure that squatch has not been shot in the past? I can think of several stories that claim shooting the beast.

[Guest DWA]

I think that the very fact we're having this discussion - combined with, well, you know, the many many reports if you've, you know, read them - vouches very well for the value of intimidation tactics to one of the most elusive critters on the planet.

[southernyahoo]

It didn't "say" anything. That's just what is sounds like. Our guys were stationary and had been for a long time. They weren't advancing or even moving around. There would have been no reason to tell us to "get away." Neither would any of our guys have said anything like that. Indeed, they were hoping the animals would come in closer.

 

Whether it said something or not is in the ear of the beholder. I think some are just saying what they hear in it and judging whether they believe any animal could make the sound vs, a hominoid or hominin. Wildman would be my bet. If it did say "Back away" I would think that was aimed at it's own family members rather than at you guys. They could have been trying to maintain safe distance, having been shot at before. This would imply speaking english, which is another level of spook factor many won't entertain, but we hear what we hear.

 

You once said this recording reminded you of the Sierra sounds. Could you explain these similarities from your perspective?

[Guest]

If the elusive Wood Ape is hucking rocks at cabins, and bluff charging at guys with guns in riverbeds, it should be dead.  If not by NAWAC, at some time in the past, someone should have killed one.  

 

Three things. One, people have claimed to have killed them in the past. Two, if not for a 1/4" twig this past summer, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Three, THIS THREAD IS NOT FOR THE DISCUSSION OF WHY OR WHY NOT BIGFOOT CANNOT BE REAL. Exactly how many times does one of the admins need to tell you that?

Whether it said something or not is in the ear of the beholder. 

 

No, it's based on logic. Even if you want to entertain the notion that they're capable of speech (which I do not), why would they be speaking English!? This isn't an episode of Star Trek where all the aliens happen to speak our language or Doctor Who where the TARDIS translates for everyone. It doesn't make any damned sense. What, they learned our language from hanging out on the margins of our society? Did they fish some English texts out of the dump and teach themselves? Was it missionaries? Did they build a radio out of coconuts like on Gilligan's Island? How, exactly, would a culture of human-like "people" learn our language without any direct interaction with us? 

 

They could have been trying to maintain safe distance, having been shot at before. 

 

This was recorded before we shot at anything. Since then, they've come much closer even after having been shot at. They show no comprehension whatsoever that gunfire equals danger. None. 

 

You once said this recording reminded you of the Sierra sounds. Could you explain these similarities from your perspective?

 

Because the brief sound we recorded sounds remarkably like the kinds of things found on the first Sierra Sounds disk. We've also heard (but not recorded) other vocalizations that also sound like the first SS disk. Simple as that. 

How, exactly, would a culture of human-like "people" learn our language without any direct interaction with us? 

 

Edit to add I do think the idea that they're mimicking our speech is very much a possibility. They are very good mimics. But that's mimicry like a parrot, not speech. They might be stringing together the kinds of sounds we make and throwing them back at us, but that's not talking. 

Edited December 19, 2013 by bipto

[Guest DWA]

Bipto:  don't get discouraged.  The humor value of your responses, alone.  I'd get a kick out of writing those.

 

OK OK I know I know...but back to my first sentence.  Cutting-edge science never was a bed of roses.  The scoffers have virtually crippled the forward progress of human knowledge.  But they aren't stopping you guys.

[southernyahoo]

 

No, it's based on logic. Even if you want to entertain the notion that they're capable of speech (which I do not), why would they be speaking English!?

 

There is no flaw in logic that evolved bipedal great apes developed speech at some point according to science. A couple of short words would't be beyond most of us to pick up if we were overhearing a foreign language.

 

This was recorded before we shot at anything. Since then, they've come much closer even after having been shot at. They show no comprehension whatsoever that gunfire equals danger. None. 

 

They don't let themselves be observed for significant lengths of time, yet will approach after you all are inside the cabin. You don't think they understand what comes with your ability to confront them? If they were fearless they'd let you watch them for hours, and you probably wouldn't feel such a need to kill one if such long observations could be obtained. I would hope your group could see a greater value in that than a specimen.

 

 

Because the brief sound we recorded sounds remarkably like the kinds of things found on the first Sierra Sounds disk. We've also heard (but not recorded) other vocalizations that also sound like the first SS disk. Simple as that. 

 

Yes, I asked because I wanted to know which sounds specificly.

 

Edit to add I do think the idea that they're mimicking our speech is very much a possibility. They are very good mimics. But that's mimicry like a parrot, not speech. They might be stringing together the kinds of sounds we make and throwing them back at us, but that's not talking. 

 

 

Try to understand that their ability to mimic human speech sounds says as much as their intent.  Pay attention to what vowels you hear in their sounds.  There are a few that are believed to be exclusive to humans among terrestrial mammals. Some anthroplogists don't even think Neanderthals could make them.

 

 

http://www.fau.edu/explore/homepage-stories/2008-04speaks.php

 

 

 

 

 â€œThey wouldn't have been able to produce these quantal vowels that form the basis of spoken language.â€

 

 

 

 

Also try to understand that when I hear these sounds in purported BF vocalizations, it will speak louder than just my opinion or your logic.

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

Apes like chimps struggle to mimic simple words. Woodapes are allegedly mimicking sentences. If they can speak in sentences, what's stopping them from creating some basic form of language?

[Cotter]

@ Bipto - Star Trek?  Dr. Who?

 

Nerd.

 

:-)

 

Keep up the good work bud.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Cotter