What Is Sasquatch?

[Guest Darrell]

Sasquatch is what ever someone wants it to be. Animal, man, conspiricy, alien, paranormal traveler, whatever. Simple answer to a complex question.

[Guest DWA]

Sasquatch is what ever someone wants it to be. an Animal, man, conspiricy, alien, paranormal traveler, whatever. Simple answer to a complex question.

 

Edited for Occam Compliance

[Guest Darrell]

DWA, thats what you think it is. Others of the proponent position see them as many things. Usually as what is important to them. Occam's Razor or the scientific method really haave nothing to do with someones belief system.

[southernyahoo]

Interesting that you mentioned that. In that thread I started a while back - "Integrity Of Scientific And Scholarly Activities"  which resulted in U.S. biological labs, including governmental and any college/university lab that in any shape, form or fashion connected to government, must follow procedures established under order of the POTUS. (The policies and procedures were adopted by other international science organizations as well.)

 

One very specific requirement was that any testing of or on humans must be done with their written permission. If BF are relic humans and one is killed and "laid on the lab bench", I would think that might pose a legal, ethical and scientific quandary (AFTER the DNA was done) for all involved. (Not to mention what would happen if and when the public was made aware of the situation.)

 

I wonder if that might have been discussed when Dr. Sykes' made those one or two trips to the Ashland lab. Probably not.

 

 

There's sure a lot of indigenous tribes down in Brazil and in the whole Amazon Basin that have a lot of catching up to do then. 

 

Yes that would be a quandary that I could see happening, and could be a major hurdle for science in possession of a specimen to delineate the existence of Sasquatch to the public. I would think that a Coroner could do enough of a test to identify a specimen to at least make sure it was human, but at the first human result it would likely end and the body would be given a burial.

[Guest Darrell]

^ I propose the following:

 

1. First obtain type specimen/body of bigfoot.

 

2. Worry about how it is studied or if it is human after #1 is completed.

[southernyahoo]

^ I propose the following:

 

1. First obtain type specimen/body of bigfoot.

 

2. Worry about how it is studied or if it is human after #1 is completed.

 

^Which puts you back to step one when it tests human and have to bury it.

Edited December 11, 2013 by southernyahoo

[Guest Darrell]

Well you will never know until one is actually collected. Im at about 99% sure that aint happening.

[southernyahoo]

And you might not know when one has been collected.

[Branco]

A dog is a wolf, that chose to sleep by our fire 20,000 years ago.

They only slept by the fire because they were caught as pups and made pets by humans. During that "20,000" years the pets adapted, and their direct descendants split into hundreds of different types, nearly all basically dependent on humans to survive. I haven't heard of any true, modern day wolves coming in to "sleep by the fire". Keep in mind that if man fails to care for and control those wolf offspring, they will eventually become feral, and revert back, over time, to the habits and traits of wolves. 

 

The point being that outcasts from archaic hominid families tens of thousands of years ago may have also reverted and adapted a more primitive life style and existence than those who "built the fires."

 

You can argue your case all you want Sas...,, but it's nature to take the easy route and not the hard one, not unlike electricity or water.

Were that the case all humans would live in in climate controlled homes with plumbing. Their are MANY lineages of humans, some new ones are still periodically found. The "easy" route would not have produced electricity or water systems.

Grizzlies would rather dumpster dive for jelly donuts than run elk calves down.

Yeah, that "Grisswells" comics series is carried in our local newspaper. It's a hoot!

 

Bull moose would rather walk railroad tracks than buck deep snow.

BF does that too down south, snow or not. (Not sure at all about that "hitching a ride" on a train'" thing though!)

Regards Norseman. Enjoy reading your posts.

And you might not know when one has been collected.

OR, how many.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Branco

[Branco]

No, actually, there isn't a scientist who would not call their adaptations to their environment technological in the strictest possible sense.

 

From Wikipedia:  "Humans use tools to a much higher degree than any other animal, and are the only extant species known to build fires and cook their food, as well as the only known species to clothe themselves and create and use numerous other technologies and arts."

 

Blowgun and dugout canoe draw the line, and it only gets wider and wider from there.

The fly in that ointment is that humans wrote ALL the scientific, biological and legal definitions. And we (humans) have chosen to exclude other primates that are also hair covered, but don't wear clothes to cover the parts that count. (From a reproductive standpoint, of course.)     

[norseman]

Branco,

Wolves are kept as pets all the time. And no...... Upon discovery that they cannot escape the human over lords that will lavish them with full bellies and warm places to sleep they do not immediately slash their wrists or hang themselves.

A couple of points on the primitive human thing. The first is that we have not found any tribes of humans living in isolation without basic traits we consider human such as fire, shelter and tool manufacture. Secondly once they are exposed to the modern world they very quickly give up many traditional ways of doing things and barter for trade goods that make their lives easier. That is the human way........if you cannot beat them? Join them.

Now for all of the sophistication of a chimp and his ability to make termite sticks. A modern trader is not going to have much luck trading with a group of chimps, iron pots for mangos, because the chimp doesn't have any concept of a pot, cooking, iron ore, etc.

Chimps live like an animal because he cannot grasp the choice, he cannot grasp the concept of how that pot could make his life easier. If he doesn't want to cook with it, he could collect rain water with it and stay away from the crocs.....or use it to bludgeon dinner to death with.

It takes primitive man about a half second for the skies to part and the angels to sing when confronted with new technology........... And if you offered to trade him his grass hut for your house with modern plumbing? He would swap in a heart beat.

You and others have a very long way to go to rewrite nature and show me how a species devolved from living as a primitive human to living like an animal.

Homo floresiensis whom were consider little wild men by the Homo Sapiens living on Flores still used fire. And probably got to Flores by raft or canoe. In other words the primitives thought they were primitive by comparison to their own culture. And the hobbit was light years ahead of squatch in technology.........,,that to me is a big problem with the "squatch is a human" theory.

Squatch acts much more like an Orang than a Hobbit.

[salubrious]

DWA, thats what you think it is. Others of the proponent position see them as many things. Usually as what is important to them. Occam's Razor or the scientific method really haave nothing to do with someones belief system.

Darrell, it sounds here like the only experience of BF is that which comes though belief. Put another way, your post suggests a certainty that belief is as far as it will ever get since there are no BF.

 

I know we have discussed this before, but if I interpreted the underpinning correctly, all I can say is that it is actually incorrect. Some people experience BF through some sort of interaction. I have used Occam's Razor to explain some goings on, in which BF was the simple answer. But I am able to do that not because I believe in BF (because I don't) but because I *know* BF exists through personal and unambiguous experience, which is different.

 

The best explanation I have of them is that they are the forest people. This is nice because I get to side step the ape/human thing....

[Guest]

 Speaking of wolves, the Grey Wolf has survived while the Dire Wolf did not. The Dire was bigger and stronger but for whatever reason, became extinct. Maybe sasquatch is the smaller version of G. blacki and too survived because it was not has large.

  I wonder if the La Brea tar pits have squatch remains in there anywhere???

[southernyahoo]

Norse, I think if you ever have one shout words at you, you'll have second thoughts about the Orang theory.   I've heard some wild stuff from other researchers, not just my own stuff which led me to my position. The Sierra sounds, which have been around for forty years now, clearly goes way beyond any nonhuman ape in articulatory communication. 

 

This most likely points to them having the genetics shared with us and Neanderthals in a gene called FOXP2. New research says there is other genes involved , though the mutations in this gene specifically affect the neurocircuitry in muscle control involved in speech.

 

 

 

 

Along with all these modern materials and conveniences we have, comes the burden of maintaining it all. I think Sasquatch must have a very simple life once it masters sustenance and shelter in various circumstances. I doubt they would envy us much if they could see what all it takes. We couldn't give them these things and expect them to duplicate it on their own, we'd have to take them into society like you and I, or whatever we did for them, they'd have to sustain on their own which probably wouldn't go beyond spears and making fire, if they saw a benefit in it.  Now that would be an idea for a research experiment.

[Branco]

Branco,

Wolves are kept as pets all the time. And no...... Upon discovery that they cannot escape the human over lords that will lavish them with full bellies and warm places to sleep they do not immediately slash their wrists or hang themselves.

Sure, but they and their parents were raised by humans. Folks don't capture full grown, wild wolves to make pets out of them. If wolves craved "living by the fire" they would volunteer to be pets. They don't. 

A couple of points on the primitive human thing. The first is that we have not found any tribes of humans living in isolation without basic traits we consider human such as fire, shelter and tool manufacture. Secondly once they are exposed to the modern world they very quickly give up many traditional ways of doing things and barter for trade goods that make their lives easier. That is the human way........if you cannot beat them? Join them.

That "we" is the key. If "we" finally show they have DNA that shows them to be feral humans - like Zana -, "we" may have to change our multiple definitions of "we", "us" and "humans".

Now for all of the sophistication of a chimp and his ability to make termite sticks. A modern trader is not going to have much luck trading with a group of chimps, iron pots for mangos, because the chimp doesn't have any concept of a pot, cooking, iron ore, etc.

Chimps live like an animal because he cannot grasp the choice, he cannot grasp the concept of how that pot could make his life easier. If he doesn't want to cook with it, he could collect rain water with it and stay away from the crocs.....or use it to bludgeon dinner to death with. 

The do use tools very effectively. They use leaves to dip water trapped in the hollows of trees to drink. They use clubs for offense or defense. They "draw" maps for others to follow when foraging. And they maintain a tight family group. They are slowly climbing the ladder.

It takes primitive man about a half second for the skies to part and the angels to sing when confronted with new technology........... And if you offered to trade him his grass hut for your house with modern plumbing? He would swap in a heart beat. 

Don't buy that AT all. That's been tried for years in the very remote areas of the Amazon Basin for many years. Those folks just want to be left alone and do their thing. The majority of the ones that "came into civilization" regretted it. It takes generations to adapt to such changes. 

You and others have a very long way to go to rewrite nature and show me how a species devolved from living as a primitive human to living like an animal.

Of course you know that at some time in the past humans pretty well lived like animals, and we actually are animals - by our own definitions. I know of no one who has even suggested that "a species devolved from living as a primitive human to living like an animals". We are simply talking about a "primitive" hominid that did not "evolve" or adapt at the same pace as other hominids, just a little less than some of the very primitive tribes that WE DO know about.

 

Homo floresiensis whom were consider little wild men by the Homo Sapiens living on Flores still used fire. And probably got to Flores by raft or canoe. In other words the primitives thought they were primitive by comparison to their own culture. And the hobbit was light years ahead of squatch in technology.........,,that to me is a big problem with the "squatch is a human" theory.

Well, I pass on that one. Like the fly that was missed by the swatter; that one's off the wall. 

 

Squatch acts much more like an Orang than a Hobbit.

I can only say two things with certainty: They sure don't look like an Orangutan and I don't have a clue about how a Hobbit might act.

Regards