Incorrigible1 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I'm still awaiting those portraying themselves as experts, or knowledgeable, or having ongoing activity to present some type of proof that doesn't require faith in the statements they make. Still waiting. But, hey, I'm a patient man. Not expectant, but patient, nonetheless. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Urkelbot Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 To crush the myth of Bigfoot, see the believers driven before me, and hear the lamentation of their women. I was excited by the initial ketchum talk and after that fell apart I came looking here to see if there was anything else out there indicating an actual biological Bigfoot. What I found was lots of far flung psycic/habituation/fantasy nonsense and a unnerving amount of anti-science opinions. I get annoyed when someone claims Bigfoots liver is 50% bigger, or Bigfoot trains raccoons, or there are 4 distinct species of bigfoot, Bigfoot is human, the pgf has to be real because the kneecap couldnt be replicated, if scientists simply read Harry potter they would believe in magic, etc. I haven't closed the door on Bigfoot and I want to believe but at the moment the current evidence isn't good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmaker Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) "And weirdness of all kinds that confound my ideas of rationality. Do you ever hunger for experience of that kind?" No. Not that I do not have a taste for the fantastical. 90% of what I read is fantasy. I started reading Tolkien when I was 11 and I have always had at least one foot, if not both, firmly planted in that genre my entire life. But I have no yearning to blend fantasy with fiction. That is what I see happening here all the time. People out in the woods that cannot distinguish a tree stump from a scary squatch. Some of the arguments and ideas here confound my ideas of rationality. Does that count? Nice Conan quote Urkle! Edited January 14, 2014 by dmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSA Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) Dmaker, not saying I want fantasy though...quite the opposite. I find so much in even the Science pages of the NYT's each Tuesday to fill me with awe of how much there is still being discovered....and the pace is accelerating at an exponential rate. Advances in medicine are coming so fast you can't keep up, and not just, you know, incidental findings. Physics? Unreal stuff. It really becomes apparent to me the truly weird stuff in this universe is here with us already, beyond the wildest predictions of any sci-fi writer, you know? That is the kind of weird stuff that just keeps me getting up each day. I want to know what happens next. If they confound your idea of rationality sometimes, that is a good thing in my book. There is deep security to be found in insecurity sometimes. If the only thing you can count on is is that you can't count on anything, it is a kind of freedom. Urkelbot, talk about your "stretch" goals! In my most contrarian years I don't think I could have aimed that high. I think most here would agree (who don't claim to have had an encounter) that the current state of the evidence isn't good enough for them. We each have an internal meter on that subject. Mine goes up and down, as does yours too, obviously. Edited January 14, 2014 by WSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NathanFooter Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Not sure what you are getting at Nathan. I don't consider any bigfoot "research" to be a genuine endeavor. So while some may be more reasonable in what they accept as evidence, in the end they are all just tilting at windmills anyway. It's just a matter of degree. You effectively answered my question, completely noted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MNskeptic Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 How is my personal success goal defined relative to BF? For me, I have to settle an internal conflict. Part of me thinks this social construct could be possible. Part of me says 'no way, no evidence'. The inner conflict is unsettling. Gradually, over time, evidence with which i used to try to convince significant others of the existence of BF have been de-bunked and left me feeling foolish. I keep going back to eyewitness accounts. Stories from guys like Mike Wooley strike me as believable. If BF is not a living creature, and there is no mental illness involved, what did he and other witnesses like him see? Fascinating stuff, but I realize that there is often a back story that is not being told and would change the perspective of many of these. So, for me, I'm wanting definitive closure...like most everyone else. MnSkeptic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSA Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 Sounds like a goal many have her MN. Closure, I get you. Though it seems you hold out the possibility of external validation. That also seems to me to be entirely understandable as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantor Posted January 15, 2014 Admin Share Posted January 15, 2014 ... the skeptical community here. How do you define your personal success goals, if you do? I'm a skeptic and the ultimate goal is for somebody to obtain and turn over a type specimen so that it can be classified and studied. To me, it doesn't matter who does it. The reason I dislike hoaxers and bs'ers very, very, very, very much is because they derail the entire mission by mass distraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted January 15, 2014 Admin Share Posted January 15, 2014 ^^^^^ What gig said in spades. I'll stir the pot by adding if your a 100 percent denialist? Then your ultimate goal is to get tired of this subject and move onto the Loch Ness monster, UFOs or scoobey doo reruns...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSA Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 I'm a skeptic and the ultimate goal is for somebody to obtain and turn over a type specimen so that it can be classified and studied. To me, it doesn't matter who does it. The reason I dislike hoaxers and bs'ers very, very, very, very much is because they derail the entire mission by mass distraction. Right....this also seems like some common ground here, and one I at least would get behind. As I said in my original post, I do have some intermediate goals that would suffice for personal satisfaction. I'm assuming you don't take time in the field to try and have an encounter of your own? Not everyone would/can do that, I appreciate. The "One-Hundred Percenters" Norse? I have to admit that is where I've always been somewhat puzzled and several comments up-thread shed some light on that for me. The goal, as I understand it, is to convince at least one other person that BF is a myth, social construct or some other perfectly explainable phenomenon. IT seems a lot of energy to spend for that remote possible outcome, but I judge not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DWA Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) For me, success has already happened. The evidence says the animal's real, so I have added one to the list of animals I am aware of. (Of course, the icing on the cake would be either societal confirmation, or better yet, my seeing one. The cool thing about the latter is that that would be all gravy to me, and there would be no one I would need to convince. Not that there are any now. But too many who have seen one seem to somehow feel that they have to struggle with this, that they have a Burden Of Knowledge they cannot properly deal with. Shame that. You saw a bigfoot. You have one over on 99.99999% of the human race.) (Or maybe more like 80%. Who knows.) Another thing has happened, a major success for me, which I attribute wholly to my attention to this topic. I always presumed that a scientist was a person with a science degree. I have now learned that I am one...and that a lot of scientists truly aren't. It's how one deals with the unknown, I have found, that separates the scientist from the tolerably accomplished techie in a very narrow corner of the scientific vineyard. I knew that putting beer and girls over Ph.D was gonna pay off. It did. I didn't have the wonder and the analytical chops knocked out of me by professors who just knew they knew everything. I should add to the successes: I get to experience the full richness of this field, including how much, in this field alone, is one hell of a lot stranger than a simple bipedal primate. Edited January 15, 2014 by DWA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DWA Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 I should note apropos some other comments here that I absolutely shun fantasy reading and have seen virtually zero fantasy films (zero that I was the person primarily motivated to see). I wasn't brought here by the paranormal anything; I was brought here by evidence, pointing to an animal. Reality is more than exciting enough. I need to add - dang, I may the most successful guy here! - that every time a bigfoot skeptic gets all emotional on me: win column. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMBigfoot Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 For me it was to have an encounter of my own. Because seeing is believing or knowing. When a local news report talked about some bigfoot sightings/activity going on nearby I went to the area. After a couple of weeks I met the actual eyewitnesses and they took me to the campsite and told me about their encounters. Too be honest at the time I didn't believe any of them. But I was polite and listened to them and I would go out with them when they invited me. After five months I got a message on the phone to go to the campsite because the bigfoot were back. So I went up there and that night I had my first bigfoot sighting and it was with others. After knowing bigfoot are real my goal was to prove they exist. After many years of failure and coming to terms that it will take a live or dead bigfoot to prove they exist to the world. I decided it wasn't for me. Then in 2005 my brother and I went hiking in the Eagle Cap Wilderness and we met a man in his mid 80's. He said he had been camping every year for the last 45 years on the Westside because it was so beautiful. Then last year he decided to check out the Eastside and he said it was even more beautiful. He told us if he could do it all over again he would of went to a new area each year, don't stay in the same spot, and see it all. So after that my goal changed to traveling, exploring, checking out new areas and having fun like Cervelo and others have said. But I still keep my eyes and ears open for any possible bigfoot activity. After seeing a bigfoot it's hard not too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSA Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 CMB....ka-CHING!!!!! Can't argue with those results. If you are satisfied you have "seen the elephant", I'm thrilled for you. Sounds like you owe a debt of gratitude to the folks who hooked you up. Like you DWA, being engaged on the evidence is stimulation enough for me, usually. I think back to my two "possible" encounters though, and I really kick myself for not knowing what I was actually, probably, experiencing. Goes to show how experiences come to those who are prepared to know what is happening. Don't plan to make that mistake again if I can help it. I hedge a bit, and waffle on what I truly experienced, but I do count those events as a small success, under my terms as stated, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DWA Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Every time I am on a road with woods on either hand, I am at the alert, and there's always the mild excitement that this might be the day. Same thing on every hike. If that's not living, well, no, don't share it with me. Apropos to note here all the scientists who parrot that "reality is beautiful and amazing enough without all this...". They appear unaware that they've walled off one hell of a lot of reality. Never a success, in my book. Never go out there - anywhere - looking for one thing. Look for everything; and that is **** close to what you will find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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