It Will Not Make Any Difference

[Will]

 When someone starts to say that you need a certain mind-set to appreciate bigfoot,  

He could be talking about the same type of mind set I get when hunting big game, except much more intense.

 

Have you ever hunted big game Dmaker?

Edited August 21, 2014 by will

[Guest DWA]

...and why is it...reading just that snippet that will quotes of dmaker's right above me...that it is very obvious that whatever comes after the terminal comma is going to say, in so many words, "I know they're wrong because if there is one thing I will never bother to test, it's that I'm right"?

 

Where does the discussion go from there?  Have we not seen?  No matter what is offered to that approach, short of proof (and maybe not even then), the response will be:  no, I'm right.  Even when it will soon enough - when proof is obtained - be obvious that that approach will always be, from Moment One, wrong.  

 

Oh, the approach has a 50-50 chance of being right.   Blind pigs do better with acorns.  Straight technical observation.

Edited August 21, 2014 by DWA

[WSA]

As Jim was wont to say, "Break on through...." 

 

There are those doomed to die in the opening reel in all those B movies we saw as kids. Or, to quote Union General Sedgwick right before he took a round in the Wilderness from about 800 yds...."Get up boys, why, at this range, they couldn't hit an elepha.."  In his world, snipers like the Sgt. from GA who helped him solve the great mystery didn't exist either.

[Guest DWA]

...'coz he missed the memo in officer candidate school:  they put two or three of those right out front...and they focus on the men on horseback.

 

It's what's right in front of you...that you don't know.  Man what that has done to people having an up-close encounter with something they KNEW just...

Edited August 21, 2014 by DWA

[Will]

^

Sorry guys it seems you're making Bf to be something its not, for an experienced woodsman and logger, I don't miss much in the woods. If they are there, the sign will be also, not one passing through, but one that has been in the area as its home. Its obvious they are very rare and that is why they aren't found yet. I find it hard to believe I would mistake them for a tree stump or whatever else. Many hunters are experienced in looking way beyond what is in front to catch any type of movement, its not hard but takes time to learn it.

Edited August 21, 2014 by will

[ShadowBorn]

^

Sorry guys it seems you're making Bf to be something its not, for an experienced woodsman and logger, I don't miss much in the woods. If they are there, the sign will be also, not one passing through, but one that has been in the area as its home. Its obvious they are very rare and that is why they aren't found yet. I find it hard to believe I would mistake them for a tree stump or whatever else. Many hunters are experienced in looking way beyond what is in front to catch any type of movement, its not hard but takes time to learn it.

It is an art to find the ought most difficult animal as a trophy in the wilderness. Yet people have run into this creature either by accident or by design.

[Will]

^^

True, but people run into trophy caliber game also. There being seen could very well be a mistake on there part, for the elusive trophy class whitetail, it would be the same since most are nocturnal.

[WSA]

My point exactly Will. There is an entry level degree, gained by logging lots of hours under canopy, better done by yourself. You have done that, obviously. I've done that (although lately I grow fat and lazy). DWA...he is a rambling fool...guy can narrate a trail to you he walked with 30 years ago, with a biota survey thrown in. Many, many here that I pay attention to especially have done that. I do that because their words tell me they know. These things will never come out of books, totally. Unless you have put in the calories, you will not know if something somebody is telling you makes sense, or is possible, or not. And when you do that, the more you do that, the more you will realize that these woods are like the ocean....nobody knows all about what swims there.  It is one of the aspect of life on this continent that is obtainable for anyone who cares to reach for it. There is no correspondence course for an equivalency degree in this.       

[dmaker]

^^ WSA, look at one of those bigfoot reported sightings maps and tell me that all those locations fall under your spell of the deep, unexplored woods. In fact, the vast majority of reported sightings do not take place in any such enchanted forest as you would have us believe. 

[SWWASAS]

Sightings happen where the people are to have them.     So the distribution of sightings have only marginal significance of the population density of the BF.    People rarely get out into the deep woods.    Usually only hunters penetrate deep into the woods very far away from trails, roads, campgrounds, and other infrastructure of man.   In the PNW off trail travel is very difficult due to heavy underbrush, deadwood, etc in areas West of the Cascades.   It can be done but the going is very slow and that limits how deep you can penetrate away from trails and logging roads.   The principal reason people have encounters on the human infrastructure of trails and roads is that BF have to seek out game wherever it is and cross roads and trails when they hunt.  

 

As I write this there are 60 people looking for two men in the woods East of Tillamook Oregon.      Monday night they went looking for animals (BF?) in the woods.   They and their car has not been found in spite of an extensive ground and air search.   It is very easy to get lost or stay unfound in the case of BF in the woods. 

[Guest DWA]

I used to think off-trail travel would be my key to the wildlife, surprising them in their natural strongholds.

 

Surprised a jumping mouse once; spooked a mourning dove off a nest full of eggs, at waist level.   Saw some deer on a roadbed way up above me...once.

 

(Found bigfoot tracks.  Once.)

 

That's about it.  When you get off trail, might as well sound an air-raid siren, pretty much.  When you are on trail, if you see an animal, it doesn't care about you, generally, one way or the other, exceptions (and few) noted.  If it does care...you will never know it was there.

 

Again there are exceptions...and there are THOUSANDS of them manifesting itself as sasquatch sightings.  Care to guesstimate how many people that means have actually seen one?

 

(And if you think the reports are anything but the tip of the iceberg of actual sightings:  that bad obvious recalibration need for your logic sensors is why we don't listen to you.)

[Guest]

Sightings happen where the people are to have them.     So the distribution of sightings have only marginal significance of the population density of the BF.    People rarely get out into the deep woods.    Usually only hunters penetrate deep into the woods very far away from trails, roads, campgrounds, and other infrastructure of man.   In the PNW off trail travel is very difficult due to heavy underbrush, deadwood, etc in areas West of the Cascades.   It can be done but the going is very slow and that limits how deep you can penetrate away from trails and logging roads.   The principal reason people have encounters on the human infrastructure of trails and roads is that BF have to seek out game wherever it is and cross roads and trails when they hunt.  

 

As I write this there are 60 people looking for two men in the woods East of Tillamook Oregon.      Monday night they went looking for animals (BF?) in the woods.   They and their car has not been found in spite of an extensive ground and air search.   It is very easy to get lost or stay unfound in the case of BF in the woods. 

Is there any significant difference in proportion of sightings in urban and suburban environments (where most humans are) versus rural and outright wilderness I wonder? Seems bigfoot is seen in urban and suburban habitats where we would not really expect to get much if any reports. Rural habitats and wilderness have much smaller human populations but we would expect more of the population to report sightings (or at least have them whether they report or not). Foxes, coyotes, raccoons and white tailed deer are reported frequently in cities by residents but not as frequently as in the countryside habitats where there are more of them. I would expect much the same distribution of reports for bigfoot. Might make an interesting project to find the relative proportions of reports from the four habitats in question and see how they compare with reports of other large animals.

I used to think off-trail travel would be my key to the wildlife, surprising them in their natural strongholds.

 

Surprised a jumping mouse once; spooked a mourning dove off a nest full of eggs, at waist level.   Saw some deer on a roadbed way up above me...once.

 

(Found bigfoot tracks.  Once.)

 

That's about it.  When you get off trail, might as well sound an air-raid siren, pretty much.  When you are on trail, if you see an animal, it doesn't care about you, generally, one way or the other, exceptions (and few) noted.  If it does care...you will never know it was there.

 

Again there are exceptions...and there are THOUSANDS of them manifesting itself as sasquatch sightings.  Care to guesstimate how many people that means have actually seen one?

 

(And if you think the reports are anything but the tip of the iceberg of actual sightings:  that bad obvious recalibration need for your logic sensors is why we don't listen to you.)

I'm not a mountaineer or off-roader but I see wildlife in the woods around me all the time. I never leave the woods without seeing deer, possums, skunks, foxes and/or coyotes. Sometimes I walk trails and other times I don't. As long as one is rather careful about the sounds one makes, there really shouldn't be too much problem with seeing wildlife and even then sometimes they don't care. My Dad and older brothers taught me how to walk in the woods and see what life was in them. Basically, you just let nature present itself the way it does. If you only go out looking for one thing, that is all you'll see.

Edited August 22, 2014 by antfoot

[Guest DWA]

I will take a backseat to no one on these boards on wildlife seen.  Ever been surrounded by bears?  I mean literally surrounded, females and cubs in every direction of the compass?   That's only one.

 

But one has to think about it the way people like WSA and I think about it to make the translations.

 

And I'd say this to your last sentence:  go out in the woods NOT looking for sasquatch and you WON'T see one.  Again, unless you're just lucky, which is what most wildlife sightings are, luck.  Lots of wildlife photographers say they can't exist because those photographers haven't personally seen one.  (That they'll admit.)  That's not knowing how to think about being in the wild.

[Guest DWA]

I'm not sure people understand how to deal with this 'sasquatch sightings in wilderness' thing.

 

Know how many remote-wilderness sightings there will be?  Almost zero.  Humans back there are well out of their element.  They are totally on the animals' terms.  I've seen the fewest critters in the deepest most remote excursions.  It's like there's a hot-pink chopper, electric-blue stripes, above me, following me around, guy with a megaphone, HEY DWA RIGHT HERE!!!!

 

When animals come to the fringes of that deep habitat they start to lose their advantage.  The lure of easy food drops their defenses.  They're partially blinded by lights, partially deafened by noise.  (Or they simply care less because their eyes are on the prize, that dumpster, that horse pen, that rabbit hutch, that chicken coop).  This, simple logic has it, is where 90% of the sightings will be.  OK, maybe 70%, the rest being divided between the occasional deep-woodsman and the motorist on a remote road, the sides of which are deep quiet unpopulated habitat. 

 

(90% of that remaining 30% are the motorists, count on it.)

[WSA]

^^ WSA, look at one of those bigfoot reported sightings maps and tell me that all those locations fall under your spell of the deep, unexplored woods. In fact, the vast majority of reported sightings do not take place in any such enchanted forest as you would have us believe. 

Got to work these shift levers somehow.....danged fins....