Guest Crowlogic Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Wait. You think this is field work we're doing? I've found the problem, Mabel! I'll go with the scientists who tell us that about parasites over you. Which is one of the more quaint things about your stance on this. I'll go with the scientists who disagree with you. (The ones who agree are demonstrably uninformed, as has been shown many times in many threads here.) The point is missed that there are lots of eyes in the forest that could prove Bigfoot exists. Some of those are mentioned already. Just because Bigfooters can't seem to find it does not mean other "unsanctioned" eyes couldn't do the job. I have a very good friend who spent a year in the 6 Six Rivers National Forest region doing soil research. We discussed Bigfoot and the region. He said what I say, a null set. The vacuum of proof must either be the null set or there is a giant cover up. I tend to think that believing in a coverup requires more imagination than believing in fairies. We're talking about "experience" regarding BF, not your own personal experience with hallucinations regarding Pigeons. You've never seen a BF, I have. So that experience changed my perception with regard to Bigfoots existence completely.. In my case my perception went from having never given their existence much thought one way or the other to knowing without a shadow of a doubt that they do in fact exist. So now there is nothing subjective about their existence to me. BTW, the Pigeons were real. Just as dreams are real. Dreams are real to the mind having the dream. Backaches are real but are not a shared experience. You can't feel my backache any more than I can see your dream. But we could see Bigfoot if we were all in the right place and time. But in keeping with the OP you're not protecting anything by not sharing or delivering whatever evidence you have. The evidence mavens have notoriously held back and that is about a good as a red flag to announce scam as one needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Ant, if what you say is true about you friends in Law Enforcement;and I have serious doubts such an event would play out the way you think it would, it would be the exception to the rule. To say the least! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam2323 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) DMAKER Of Couse you don't you don't want to see it for what it is. Your mind doesn't let you believe there for you do not see, To dismiss the PGF as not series evidence is being rather close minded about the entire phenomenon Edited July 25, 2014 by adam2323 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DWA Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 "The vacuum of proof must either be the null set or there is a giant cover up." No. Those are not the only two possibilities. The third possibility - the one the evidence could not be clearer is happening - is that the people who have seen one know; the people who are following the evidence are pretty **** sure; and the scientific mainstream hasn't gotten off its duff yet. No one is looking any more than people in NJ are looking for California condors when they go for a walk. There is almost no "bigfoot expedition" that would find a coyote with the time it spends unless it was told where the den was. And flown there. There are other possibilities I suppose. But I just told you the one to bet on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted July 25, 2014 Admin Share Posted July 25, 2014 Crowlogic? What about the Forest Rangers, Soldiers and Marines who claim they have seen something? If your FS soil conservationist friend confided in you he had seen something? His anecdotal account would be simply placed in the pile anyhow...... None of this bantering will make the beast appear. It's up to proponents to get the job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuchi1 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I have observed bipedal entities in the field (in multiple instances) for which there currently exists no mainstream scientific explanation/classification. In one instance (cookout incident) within ~25 minutes of observing one of these intities (for the third time that evening) a 14' wooden structure towerstand (weighing ~1200#) located ~75 yards NNE of our location was slammed over, as a child would a tinkertoy. It took 4 men and a 1500# ATV winch to later right it. Whatever this was then followed us up out of the bottoms to hurl a softball size stone from a distance of ~80 yards into the landowner's front yard, apparently as a signal to us about the efforts we had employed that evening in an attempt to get a shot at it. My reasons for mentioning this include: Whatever this is, possesses a much higher degree of intelligence, than we had previously thought. Whatever this is, possesses incredible physical strength. Whatever this is, exercised considerable forebearance by simply not coming in and terminating our existence(s) on this planet. And, in doing so, indicated (to us) that, it was doing rather well w/o our assistance in "discovering" it via killing one for physical evidence purposes. The watershed nature of this event is when my egocentricity began to be replaced with an understanding predicated upon empathy and common sense. If/when they are "discovered" IMO, there will be far more negative consequences (for them) than anyone imagined as the motivational forces driving those to do so (vanity/greed) are malignant (..."None of this bantering will make the beast appear"...) such as attempts demonize them in an effort to validate the position. But then again, homo sapiens are the most homicidal and viscous critters on this planet. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted July 25, 2014 Admin Share Posted July 25, 2014 No demonizing needed........ It lives in the forest like an animal. It does not create fire, tools, art or any other trappings we associate with being civilized. The hand axe is over a million years old, and predates our own species. And yet Squatch does not even have a mastery of this crude technology. You can go ahead and believe in your forest shaman theory Yuchi. You join the ranks of a large group of people on this forum who believe the same thing. But if they are as intelligent as us? And bigger stronger and faster than us? We would be the ones peering from the shadows at the edge of their roads. It would be their planet. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LarryP Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Dreams are real to the mind having the dream. Backaches are real but are not a shared experience. You can't feel my backache any more than I can see your dream. But we could see Bigfoot if we were all in the right place and time. Dreams are every bit as real as what we experience in what most people call "reality". They just occur within a separate reality. But in keeping with the OP you're not protecting anything by not sharing or delivering whatever evidence you have. The evidence mavens have notoriously held back and that is about a good as a red flag to announce scam as one needs. I'm not an evidence gatherer, Crow. Never claimed to be, nor do I ever intend to be. So I'm not holding back anything and there's nothing to deliver in the first place other than some of what I have experienced regarding BF. If you see that as a "red flag", then that's your perogative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stan Norton Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Norse: sensible comments as ever. Thankyou.Yuchi: your experiences sound almost identical to NAWAC's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuchi1 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 According to Dr. Fahrenbach's estimates, they can move at 40+ MPH which is quite a bit faster than any homo sapien and the aforementioned demonstration of physical strength is (IMO), self-evident. Where have I referred to them as a forest shaman? I never said they were more intelligent than homo sapiens (as a group) although, there may be some exceptions. I'd wager it takes them less than 10 years to kill an elk. Finally, seeing that we've basically nothing to show for ~47 years of effort in the "discovery/proving" department, it is no leap in logic to say they may well own the planet (at least, they've owned us thus far) in some respects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crowlogic Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 "The vacuum of proof must either be the null set or there is a giant cover up." No. Those are not the only two possibilities. The third possibility - the one the evidence could not be clearer is happening - is that the people who have seen one know; the people who are following the evidence are pretty **** sure; and the scientific mainstream hasn't gotten off its duff yet. No one is looking any more than people in NJ are looking for California condors when they go for a walk. There is almost no "bigfoot expedition" that would find a coyote with the time it spends unless it was told where the den was. And flown there. There are other possibilities I suppose. But I just told you the one to bet on. Wrong. The people who have seen one are reporting having seen one they are not showing up with the thing they saw. The people who are seeing them steadily are only making a reportage. Seen once or seen 1000 times is only a reportage and nothing more. I saw Elvis at the diner last night is just a reportage it does not deliver Elvis to the public. Then there is the hard evidence group and here's where the wheat is separated from the chafe. Except the wheat is never delivered. If I tell my bank I'm paying my mortgage I'm making a reportage. If there is no check delivered my reportage will eventually count for nothing. The scientific community sitting on it's duff is a hollow excuse now. It is hollow when there are Bigfoot expeditions galore posting all over youtube many of which are making big claims. Well if they are obviously out there then the big claims are either bogus or are designed to grab subscriptions bogus or not. They are not designed to bring the matter to science and of that I am certain. BTW many of the comet finds are done by laymen so dedicated science is not a must for discoveries. Again the question needs to be asked of when is nothing truly accepted as nothing. When is the null set the answer to the equation? Personally I have reached that conclusion. Each and every offering of evidence has resulted in the null set. We can spin it any way we like. We can blame it on money, science, time or weather but it shakes out the same way. I suspect that even a $1000,000 reward for the first true evidence that stands true scrutiny will not bring that so called evidence in because the holders of that so called evidence are aware of the game that is in play. Withholding evidence is a formof protection. It is protecting the game as the game is all there is left to protect. Dreams are every bit as real as what we experience in what most people call "reality". They just occur within a separate reality. I'm not an evidence gatherer, Crow. Never claimed to be, nor do I ever intend to be. So I'm not holding back anything and there's nothing to deliver in the first place other than some of what I have experienced regarding BF. If you see that as a "red flag", then that's your perogative. The red flag is towards those who make the claims of hard evidence. People see all kinds of things, seeing is not proof unless it is verifiable and repeatable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DWA Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) That's wrong too. But I have made so many posts on this site so explicitly showing why that is wrong, on just about every level, that I will refrain from another one here. As I have said, I have shown you the proposition that the evidence says to bet. What one chooses to do with that - and ignore it without showing why that is a good course of action appears to be your choice - isn't my issue. The world not giving one what one wants on one's schedule is no excuse for one to jump to conclusions without reviewing the evidence. I've told you what the evidence says is happening. Reports have to be followed up. If scientists expected every report to be accompanied by a specimen of what was reported...well, with that thinking we'd never have made it into caves, much less out of them. The "scientific method" predates science. And it sure doesn't involve jumping to conclusions. In any scientific debate, one must provide evidence for one's position. When one does not, one has issued an implicit request that one's position not be taken seriously. This is just the way the world is. Edited July 25, 2014 by DWA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmaker Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 "The vacuum of proof must either be the null set or there is a giant cover up." No. Those are not the only two possibilities. The third possibility - the one the evidence could not be clearer is happening - is that the people who have seen one know; the people who are following the evidence are pretty **** sure; and the scientific mainstream hasn't gotten off its duff yet. No one is looking any more than people in NJ are looking for California condors when they go for a walk. There is almost no "bigfoot expedition" that would find a coyote with the time it spends unless it was told where the den was. And flown there. There are other possibilities I suppose. But I just told you the one to bet on. Then what are a couple of thousand people per year paying money for? Are you suggesting they are scams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DWA Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Does it matter? A lot of people seem to be getting genuine experiences on those trips. How they spend their money is up to them, isn't it? I separate the human circus from the evidence. I know that people have a right to charge other people for their trouble; I know that bigfoot researchers don't get funded otherwise; I'm sure they don't guarantee sightings, or proof; and beyond that I hope everyone has a nice time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmaker Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) You say that none of them has any chance of finding a bigfoot. Are you suggesting that this is knowledge only you are privy to? Do the organizers know of this? You should perhaps tell them so that they can stop charging people for expeditions that have no chance of ever producing. There are members of this forum that operate businesses that charge people for bigfoot tours, or belong to organizations that conduct for pay expeditions. I am sure they would be delighted at your complete lack of faith in their abilities. Or is it just a game and the fun of looking for bigfoot is worth the money? Edited July 25, 2014 by dmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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