How Will "it" Happen?

[TedSallis]

How do you feel this creature's eventual acceptance by the world at large will occur?  I suppose if you are a Skeptic  you've already decided it won't ever happen.

 

Will it be some kind of freak accident, i.e. a logging truck wipes one out, a bunch of Boy Scouts happens across a dead body, etc.?  Or will it come from a concerted effort, i.e. a group of hunters taking one out to obtain a body for evidence, or something like Meldrum's 'eye in the sky' blimp?

 

 

Could a video or photograph ever provide real proof?  Doubtful, as the thousands of them so far haven't done much in that direction. 

 

Or, most frustratingly, will it's existence forever be shrouded in shadow, as it lurks just on the periphery of our collective belief?

Edited July 25, 2014 by WV FOOTER
Edited Objectionable text

[Guest]

I've seen videos of things that I think would not be practical to fake in the way they were presented. I'd believe certain videos because of that but I am very fussy. Even a real bigfoot video will not wash with me if it even remotely looks like there could be some butchy-punk-butt-kid behind it. The Patterson-Gimlin film is kind of a standard for me even though I do think it could be faked. The quality is different from the majority of videos out there right now. I do understand (unlike some) that filming method could have created a different sort of video than a straight filming would have but I reserve judgment on that as there is no direct evidence of tampering. I think a consistent video documentation of an habituated group would be compelling even if faked. Would take some dedication to pull of a prank like that though and I can't really imagine a reason to do so.

 

DNA will work for the majority of the world however. I do not believe that scientists would object to verifiable DNA evidence for bigfoot, Nessie, Champ or the chupacabra or aliens. Conspiracists believe that sort of thing.

[Guest]

There will have to be a body recovered, and it would have to be taken to a major  university and have it autopsied and DNA work done to prove their existence.

The body will probably come from a truck hitting one, or someone who is hunting this species will "get Lucky" and bag one. 

There needs to be major media coverage or nothing will change.

[dmaker]

If it were to happen, and I firmly believe it never would, I would imagine it would be either an accident where a bigfoot was struck by a vehicle or a corpse was found. Or possibly along the lines of the bear discovery from the Sykes study. Some alleged bigfoot samples are studied and the results are compelling. Something along the lines of unknown primate. Then, like the Sykes study, an expedition is launched and the animal is discovered ( the bear is yet to be found but there is talk of an expedition in the works).

 

As long as alleged bigfoot samples continue to actually come from bears, dogs, raccoons, horses, etc then the compelling factor remains absent imo.

[Guest]

There will have to be a body recovered, and it would have to be taken to a major  university and have it autopsied and DNA work done to prove their existence.

The body will probably come from a truck hitting one, or someone who is hunting this species will "get Lucky" and bag one. 

There needs to be major media coverage or nothing will change.

Even just a finger will suffice. I'd cut off a whole hand myself but even just a small, tiny, teensy-weensy bit of flesh with intact DNA will mark a huge change in public and scientific acceptance of bigfoot.

If it were to happen, and I firmly believe it never would, I would imagine it would be either an accident where a bigfoot was struck by a vehicle or a corpse was found. Or possibly along the lines of the bear discovery from the Sykes study. Some alleged bigfoot samples are studied and the results are compelling. Something along the lines of unknown primate. Then, like the Sykes study, an expedition is launched and the animal is discovered ( the bear is yet to be found but there is talk of an expedition in the works).

 

As long as alleged bigfoot samples continue to actually come from bears, dogs, raccoons, horses, etc then the compelling factor remains absent imo.

I know the Sykes study really annoys some but I LOVE it!! The abominable snow bear is every bit as good as the yeti. I suspect they will discover the bears are the Himalayan brown bear (some say blue bear) as I do not think there is a DNA analysis of that species (subspecies?) yet. I still think it's fascinating that polar bear DNA is floating around in brown bear DNA in the North America and the Himalayas and wonder if there is bison DNA in yak populations or vice versa. Yak and bison are very close genetically as well. The subject brings the whole subject of species delineation into somewhat contentious debate. I love this about science : )

[dmaker]

^^ There was polar bear DNA found floating in North American brown bear? My understanding was that the polar bear DNA was only found in the Himalayan sample(s)?

[Guest]

Brown bear DNA has been found with polar bear DNA in North America, Ireland (I think this was museum evidence as Ireland doesn't have bears now (that I know of))and now the Himalayas. Probably Kamchatka bears will show such as well (polar and Kamchatcka bears are much the same size and demeanor from what I've read) and who knows what else we'll find. This stuff is super cool. Ahem, turning  off geek mode. I hope.

[Guest JiggyPotamus]

Proving the existence of bigfoot is not something that I believe will be easy. I firmly believe it will take a body, or a large portion of a body, to even approach scientific acceptance. Some have the belief that the scientific community immediately bases its opinion on incontrovertible evidence, but this is not the case. I say this because rarely is evidence, at least initially, incontrovertible. With large ideas there is going to be a period where the findings will be attacked. And if the findings themselves cannot be attacked, then the methodology used to arrive at those results will be attacked. And if that doesn't work, then the conclusions reached from the available evidence will be attacked. I am probably leaving out some of the other possibilities as well.

 

This has all been seen among the scientific community in the past. Ideas we hold today as proven were often attacked vehemently. Even when they were eventually accepted by a large portion of the scientific community there were still holdouts, detractors, and die-hard opposing scientists. So I think that any scientist who gets any strange sequences back will have to cover their bases. They cannot make mistakes like Ketchum did for instance. Her study claimed some type of interbreeding among humans and a non-human primate, but apparently they failed to take the necessary step of actually isolating the human and non-human components and analyzing the non-human component separately. The results very well could have been caused by human DNA contaminated with non-human DNA. This is my understanding of it anyway.

 

The point is that it will take an expert. An actual scientist, considering that is who is going to be equipped with the resources and knowledge necessary to tackle the problem. Now, another point I wanted to make is that it is going to take actual time, energy, and funding. It is not something that could be easily done in one's spare time. I mean if one were to actually perform all of the analyses, and then interpret the results and present it to the rest of the scientific community. So even if someone like Sykes is analyzing samples, and he comes out and says he's isolated a novel sequence of DNA or whatever, it will still take quite a bit of time for sasquatch to be recognized as an existing species. And I would think that without having independent confirmation from other reputable sources, there will be even more detractors. And what if the one sample that is analyzed and comes from a sasquatch is used up during testing? It is a possibility.

 

And then there is the problem of actually having DNA but not knowing what the animal it originated from looks like. Sure it wouldn't take much imagination to equate a novel North American primate sequence, assuming that there are certain characteristics that can be determined from DNA alone, with bigfoot...but that is not how science operates. That is the gist of why I think it will take a body, or a large portion of one.

 

Anyway, to answer your question, I believe that new information will come suddenly. I won't say "proof," since as I mentioned earlier proof will take a long time, as science operates a bit "cautiously." But I think that most people, if a body showed up and was confirmed to be a real animal, would accept the idea almost instantly. So mass belief will come before scientific acceptance, which will only officially come after study. So let's say the new information that comes suddenly happens to be a body...Why will it come suddenly as opposed to coming after an effort by a certain group or determined individual? Because the odds are much more in favor of luck in this instance. At least the way I interpret them.

 

Any group or individual, even if they spent all their time searching for a body, will not have good odds when compared with the whole of the rest of the population. They will even be outweighed by the population of those living in bigfoot habitat alone. So assuming there is no conspiracy of any kind, it would be surprising if a body came from a concerted effort. Here is an honest question: knowing that the government operates on a chain of command system, is it possible that the US government could be oblivious to the existence of sasquatch in our modern times? If a cop hits a bigfoot, who in the heck is he going to report it to? His superior. And while his superiors are wondering what to do, who are they going to contact? It will simply move up the chain, most likely to a government organization that specializes in wildlife. I find it utterly impossible that at some point this exact scenario hasn't played out. And that is why I entertain the idea of a government coverup. It need not be nefarious, considering the government hides things from people all the time. Even mundane information is still classified. The reasoning need not be logical either.

 

I will say this however: if I was not certain of the existence of bigfoot, then I would not claim there was a coverup going on. I would simply claim the most obvious explanation is that bigfoot does not exist, as it would make far fewer assumptions. But knowing what I saw, I cannot accept that conclusion.

[hiflier]

Hello All,

Preparing for the late winter/earlyspring hunt for a dead one should be an annual event. I think finding one in any other season simply will not happen. The reason is what most of us already know about: scavengers and natural processes. The environmental pressures and dynamics of the winter season make it more likely that a weakened animal wouldn't survive and the chances of preservation are naturally better. If this Creature is truly a living organism then i really think the best opportunities for discovery lie in looking at that time of year.

Edited July 24, 2014 by hiflier

[Guest]

Proving the existence of bigfoot is not something that I believe will be easy. I firmly believe it will take a body, or a large portion of a body, to even approach scientific acceptance. Some have the belief that the scientific community immediately bases its opinion on incontrovertible evidence, but this is not the case. I say this because rarely is evidence, at least initially, incontrovertible. With large ideas there is going to be a period where the findings will be attacked. And if the findings themselves cannot be attacked, then the methodology used to arrive at those results will be attacked. And if that doesn't work, then the conclusions reached from the available evidence will be attacked. I am probably leaving out some of the other possibilities as well.

 

 

And then there is the problem of actually having DNA but not knowing what the animal it originated from looks like. Sure it wouldn't take much imagination to equate a novel North American primate sequence, assuming that there are certain characteristics that can be determined from DNA alone, with bigfoot...but that is not how science operates. That is the gist of why I think it will take a body, or a large portion of one.

 

 

Hi Jiggy, science routinely experiences this sort of argument and attack upon an idea. It is normal and expected. Most scientists presenting a new idea approach the idea of presentation with only a small amount of trepidation. Rejection is somewhat normal. Some people can't deal with it but in science one must get used to it or find another job. There is no reason bigfoot data would not be examined closely if presented in an appropriate manner.

 

DNA is the best info we could get for bigfoot. While we can't READ the DNA, we can see how similar it is to our DNA or to another species' DNA and get a good idea how the DNA reflects the appearance and even to some extent the behavior of the species in question. The Denisovan DNA doesn't quite tell us how they looked but does tell us they were very similar to us and hence they probably looked quite a bit like us. Bigfoot DNA would give us a good idea how much they might look like us.

[Guest DWA]

I think that full acceptance by the society will take years, even if NAWAC shoots one tomorrow.  I don't want to write it all here, but J. Robert Alley's Raincoast Sasquatch treats this topic quite well (it's one of the books I recommend most highly).

 

Denial is so broad and deep that basic logic and scientific practice have gone right out the window.  The people whose expertise makes them the ones we look to for the proof have abdicated the field to Matt 'n' Bobo.  The sooner the first specimen is made available, the longer it may take; there is still way too much investment in wrong thinking for scientists to get over.

 

We may have to wait until the current generation of entrenched biologists dies and the youngsters coming up - and there are some promising ones out there - take this over.  Oh well.  Max Planck warned us.

Edited July 24, 2014 by DWA

[Squatchy McSquatch]

^^^If nawac shoots and kills one tomorrow (which they won't) it would be game over and even the most ardent critics (Scientists included) would would have to accept its existence. You can't argue otherwise.

 

The rest is just your usual anti-Science rants and posturing, but hey, if that's what helps you through another day with No Body...

[hiflier]

Hello DWA,

And you were doing so good. Is it your mission to turn every thread into a mirror image of the next. Same dialogue, same rant no matter where you go? No matter the subject or who the poster is you manage to invariably turn it into the all too familiar DWA debate on scientists and/or BF's existence. Every thread. Same dialogue. Every thread. Same dialogue. Every thread. Same dialogue..........<Sigh>.

[BobbyO]

It won't.

If it would have done it would have happened by now.

These things have been living right under the noses of 400m since before the 400m arrived on its shores.

The powers that be are fully aware of its existence but for whatever reason, they're not gonna share that with the masses.

[chelefoot]

Back to the topic please.

 

Thanks BobbyO!