Cotter Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 Susie asks: Have you read many accounts of humans beheading other humans? There are very few of those occurrences Watch the news! This is nearly an every day occurence. You are correct tho, sharp objects are often used. How are you sure that BF isn't using some sort of tool to assist? Or simply twisting until the neck breaks, then pulling? This is a feat that a human, especially a large one could do as well. Tho humans usually opt to use a tool of sorts, but it isn't necessary. You'd be amazed at how easy it is to pop heads off of creatures. I do it all the time when hunting (admittedly, it's small animals, but it's fairly effortless - give a twist until you hear the crack, a quick pull, head separates, then you stick it in your buddy's backpack or glove compartment of his car). Once you get the bones broken, it's only sinew and skin holding things together. Also, a question - have you considered that BF might be entering peoples' homes and killing them? I was thinking the other day, if we have murderous BF, why would they wait for hikers and campers to come to them? I would think some of these urban ones are slinking around back yards and alleys. Could it be that humans are getting blamed for BF murders in the city as well? Elsie Paroubek, the five-year-old daughter of Czech immigrants. Is thought to have either wandered away from her home or was kidnapped in Chicago on April 8, 1911. Her disappearance was the subject of intense police investigation over three states, with massive newspaper coverage. Her body was found a month later. Elsie, under the name "Annie Aronburg" became one of the principal characters in Henry Darger's immense novel The Story of the Vivian Girls in the Realms of the Unreal. Vampire Murder Case is the nickname given to the case of an unknown assailant who committed the unsolved murder of a prostitute who was found dead with a crushed skull in her apartment on 4 May 1932 in Stockholm, Sweden. Police noted that someone had drunk her blood. Georgette Bauerdorf, a 20-year-old oil heiress who was found face down in a bathtub in her home at West Hollywood, California on 12 October 1944. She had been strangled with a piece of towel stuffed down her throat, and although there was a large roll of $2 bills and thousands of dollars worth of sterling silver lying in an open trunk, Bauerdorf's jewelry and other valuables were not stolen. The police believe her murderer had unscrewed an automatic night light over the outside entrance of the apartment so it would not come on and lain in wait for her.[13] The Black Dahlia (Elizabeth Short), a 22-year-old woman who was found severely mutilated and her body cut in half in Leimert Park, Los Angeles, California on 15 January 1947. Her unsolved murder has been the source of several books, films, and widespread speculation.[14] Emily Armstrong, found in a dry cleaner's shop in London, England on 14 April 1949, about an hour after she had been murdered. An autopsy showed she was beaten to death and her skull shattered by at least 22 blows from a blunt object, La Crosse, Wisconsin. 15-year-old Evelyn Hartley was babysitting for Professor Viggo Rasmusen on the evening of October 24, 1953 when she was kidnapped. That was the night of the La Crosse football game and attendance was high. There were signs of a struggle in the living room where her broken glasses were left. In the basement there was blood and an open window where the kidnapper came in and took Evelyn out. Though her body was never found, weeks later bloody undergarments resembling hers were discovered on Highway 14, two miles south of La Crosse. There was a fifteen-minute window between the Rasmusens's leaving and her disappearance.[19] Barbara and Patricia Grimes disappeared on 28 December 1956, in Chicago, Illinois after going to a cinema to watch an Elvis Presley movie. Their disappearance launched one of the biggest missing-persons hunts in Chicago history. However, police were not able to determine what happened to the Grimes sisters.[21] On January 22, 1957 their naked bodies were found off a road near Willow Springs, Illinois. The corpses contained various bruises and marks (for example puncture wounds in the chest that may have come from an ice pick) that were never fully explained. Boy in the Box, sometimes known as "America's Unknown Child" is a name given to an unidentified murder victim, approximately 4 to 6 years old. The body of the boy was found battered and naked inside a cardboard box on 25 February 1957 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. The case received massive media attention and pictures of the boy were placed in every gas bill in Philadelphia. It has been featured on the America's Most Wanted television series, but despite all attention the case remains unsolved and the boy's identity unknown.[22] William Anthony Kagdis, On August 1, 1982 at approximately 11:50 AM Sheriff’s deputies responded to the Johnson Motel located at 9533 James Madison Highway, Fauquier County, VA, on a report that a guest had been found deceased in his rented room. Upon arrival at the Johnson Motel deputies were directed to room no.17 where they discovered the apparently dead body of a white male lying on one of the beds in the room. The victim was found lying face down in a large pool of blood. The room showed signs of a struggle having taken place. The victim was identified as William Anthony Kagdis, an aeronautical engineer with NASA, who checked into the room at the Johnson Motel the evening before. An autopsy revealed Mr. Kagdis’ death was due to the numerous blunt force injuries he received to his head. Mr. Kagdis had been traveling from his home in Baltimore, MD to Tennessee on business.[38] Peter Ivers, television host and musician, was found bludgeoned to death in his Los Angeles apartment in 1983. The murder was never solved, although on the basis of new information found in the book In Heaven Everything Is Fine: The Unsolved Life of Peter Ivers and the Lost History of New Wave Theatre (2008) by Josh Frank and Charlie Buckholtz, the Los Angeles Police Department has reopened their investigation into Ivers' death. Catrine da Costa, Swedish prostitute. Parts of her dismembered body were found in Solna, just outside of Stockholm, during the summer of 1984. Tammy Haas, a 19 year old high school student from Yankton, SD went missing after attending a homecoming party on September 17, 1992 with her date, Eric Stukel.[52] Her body was later discovered in a ravine near Crofton, Nebraska[53] not far from the party she attended the night of September 17, 1992. The case eventually went to trial years later and the primary suspect Eric Stukel was acquitted[54] of class III felony[55] manslaughter. It is believed the acquittal was partially due to a Nebraska law requiring the prosecution to prove the victim actually died within Cedar County.[56] Eric Stukel maintains his innocence, and no others have come forward with information that could lead to an arrest.[54] Deanna Cremin, a 17-year-old girl from Somerville, Massachusetts, United States, was murdered on March 30, 1995. Her body found behind a senior housing complex. An autopsy revealed she had been strangled. She was last seen alive by her boyfriend who, unlike on other occasions when he would walk her to the door, walked her only half way and she continued on her own toward her house. Her murder remains unsolved.[58] JonBenét Ramsey, a six-year-old American girl who had competed in child beauty pageants, was made famous by her Christmastime murder and the subsequent media coverage. She was found dead in the basement of her parents' home in Boulder, Colorado, on December 26, 1996, nearly eight hours after she was reported missing. The official cause of death was asphyxia due to strangulation associated with craniocerebral trauma. After several grand jury hearings, the case is still unsolved.[63] Her parents were suspects, but authorities eventually confirmed that the couple had been cleared of any involvement.[64]
Guest Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 Hello Cotter - I was following your message and greeted your suggestion of BF entering homes of which I subscribe to in some cases. There is plenty to suggest they do. Try as I might though, I cannot stretch my imagination to include some of the homicide cases you mentioned, and I've seen a few, I cannot see any obvious connection between BF and most of those mentioned above. Do I believe BF's are peace loving furry creatures that have never killed or maimed people, no not all.
Cotter Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 Well, I wasn't necessarily suggesting there was any evidence to suggest that BF (or Dogman) committed any of the acts above, but apparently there was no evidence to suggest they didn't. My point kind of was if BF was bent on killing, what keeps it in the woods? A dogman chasing a car going to a dogman sneaking into a home at the outskirts of town isn't a huge stretch. I was simply adding yet another layer to the 'what ifs' and saying that maybe it isn't just the woods we should be afraid of..... Now, if the killing/maiming were territorial, or the reaction to a perceived threat, that is totally different. And not murderous IMO.
Guest Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 Speaking for me, myself, I do not subscribe to the idea of enabling them to hanging around my property by food or other items either for the same reason but that is my opinion. For me in my mind, it causes or has a potential for unforeseeable problems. Committing oneself to providing food and gifts to something wild is a lifetime commitment I would argue most do not consider. When they (person or persons gifting) cease they can leave or move but some unsuspecting (somebody) else comes along buys the property and now they are dealing with something they neither understand or started. I have indeed heard of them (BF's) window peeping, trying doors, even entering occupied dwellings and I have to wonder if it had anything to do with previous human behavior. Just a thought. Hey Cotter - Point well taken ... You made some good thought provoking points ... Keep posting!
Guest Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 Yikes! Cotter, Thank you for taking the time to put together an amazing number of rather unsavory murders for me to read about. I found little to make me think that a BF could have been involved in any of those cases, however, that is just my own opinion. It is sad to read about so many innocent people being murdered.
Guest Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) Gumshoeye, You make excellent points as always. After everything that I have read today thanks to our members posting so much information, I realize that things are not always as they appear on the surface. I had never heard these encounter events before, and I have learned a lot from our members postings. Thanks.. Edited October 23, 2014 by SweetSusiq
Guest Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 Same to you and thanks SusiQ, I think we can all learn something and hope for more input.
Guest Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) Homicides, suicides, death by accidents intentional or not are horrible experiences and a shock to human senses. The sights, the sounds, and especially the smells of death aren't easily washed away with soap and water. While the topic matter might make for butterfly tummy's in most, I assure you that is not my intention nor anyone here on this thread. That said, this is rare to speak so open and honest with one another today. It is one of the few mediums available for like-minded BF researchers and enthusiast to speak freely without fear of ridicule or attack, and for me that is a good thing. Hat tip to the administrators and moderators of this forum! Why is it that so many people of all stations in life and of all levels of socioeconomic and educational levels can all report these strange anomalous creatures; always in privacy with caveats of never identifying themselves for fear of ridicule, and so many even today still question whether or not they exist is beyond me. Something inherently wrong when there is something out there roaming the place that may or may not present danger to people and we need to know more about it. The only way to no your (enemy) or threat, if there is any, is to learn more about it. This can be done by honest give and take with open mindedness. As a chess player we do the same thing, study your opponent, learn their strengths and weaknesses, create a strategy, and so on and so forth. Edited October 23, 2014 by Gumshoeye
Guest Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) Hello Cotter - I was following your message and greeted your suggestion of BF entering homes of which I subscribe to in some cases. There is plenty to suggest they do. Try as I might though, I cannot stretch my imagination to include some of the homicide cases you mentioned, and I've seen a few, I cannot see any obvious connection between BF and most of those mentioned above. Do I believe BF's are peace loving furry creatures that have never killed or maimed people, no not all. Plus 1 to you from me with thanks..BTW,I agree with you:) Gum, You need to stop being so smart. *Another* plus 1 to you from me (for the post just above this one) with hugs and love.. Edited October 24, 2014 by SweetSusiq
Guest Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 SusiQ, Cotter et al. - For those of you who have actually experienced these things would you take a moment and share your feelings. I am interested in knowing what your emotional state of mind was leading up to the encounter. For me, I noticed an immediate sense of agitation and annoyance and the overwhelming sense of foreboding. I recognized a personal change in my being to heightened state of agitation, almost like I do if I eat salty chips or something, as it raises the blood pressure. Then the annoyance of feeling violated in some strange sort of way as though eyes are burrowing deep inside me. I am familiar with those feelings. It was part of me like an old friend, and I used it on the job. Years ago, I took some seminar training, it very expensive but it was all the rage then. It was called, "EST" not to be confused with esp. Anybody heard of it? It was something that originated out West coast, I know a little more of it, but its important now. The people attending these seminars were mainly movers and shakers of the community. There were many different aspects of the training but one that I remember to this very day was an exercise that "helped you heighten your personal senses." In other words, an auditorium filled with people in training, there was trainer and proctors. They march 50 participants on stage dim the lights disallowing any visual contact with the audience and demand quietness. They call out 50 proctors who stand directly behind each participant on stage. This was repeated each time until each participant in training had four strangers staring at you from behind, front, left and right, not saying a word to you. They were so close you smell their perfume or cologne and feel them breathing on you and the shut off the lights. As silence reigned, the trainer asked the participants "What do you feel?" You sense but cannot see presence! You feel the presence of a sea of people and yet, you cannot see them. I was, I thought, what a bizarre thing to experience but little did I realize, it was something I was able to hone and fine tune later in life. Anyone of you should this experiment .... the next time you go to a busy bar or restaurant or anyplace where there are lot of people pick out somebody in the crowd far way and stare at some point on their back, and see what response you get ... You might have to practice a few times but the response may surprise you. In my experience in this topic is quite similar. The agitation arrived when I approached the presence of something hidden but could not readily identify. It was my personal agitation in the sense that I understood and felt the sudden change, and I was helpless to control it. For an individual that spent all his adult life in control I could not under this circumstance. I was beset with annoyance over the fact that all the professional and military experience didn't provide one clue that something was observing me without my permission... I never detected the overwhelming odors that time but certainly have in Tennessee and another time in Michigan. The odor is uniquely strong and unforgettable. There are few things that I experienced worse than the odor they emit i.e. a charred body or decaying human flesh. I do not recall the rubber band legs or shakes for that matter, but I do remember the onset of agitation and annoyance. I said too much already ... so what were your feelings?
jayjeti Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 You are correct tho, sharp objects are often used. How are you sure that BF isn't using some sort of tool to assist? Or simply twisting until the neck breaks, then pulling? This is a feat that a human, especially a large one could do as well. Tho humans usually opt to use a tool of sorts, but it isn't necessary. You'd be amazed at how easy it is to pop heads off of creatures. I do it all the time when hunting (admittedly, it's small animals, but it's fairly effortless - give a twist until you hear the crack, a quick pull, head separates, then you stick it in your buddy's backpack or glove compartment of his car). Your hypotheticals, although I'm sure you're being facetious, doesn't really fly like the bigfoot might have pulled out his pocket knife to cut the head off. And I wonder about human's ability to pull appendages off of grown men so easily, including an arm or head. I think by now someone would have done that in a fight somewhere if it was that easy. Now, if I spent a really long time pulling and twisting i might could eventually dismember someone, but you really can't make a comparison between a man and a bigfoot like that. There are reports of sasquatches pulling limbs off of animals, even large animals, and I believe they have enough strength that they don't need to twist it for a while in order to get it off. I think it goes pop goes the weasel.
jayjeti Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 JayJetti, Has any of your research or camping and hiking habits changed since learning all of this has occurred? Have the potential dangers kept you away from certain areas, or are you proceeding as you always have in the past? Has this discussion effected your future plans? I investigate an area in Oregon that has sasquatch activity, and I wear a side arm, not that I think I'm going to be attacked by one, but I'm cautious due to being aware of things like the 411 books and knowing some past stories and also from having a negative encounter with one elsewhere. I'm a little more comfortable knowing I might be able to put one in his head if he got up close and personal, or if I had a problem with another wild animal, or if I was injured out somewhere I might could signal my location. I'm not too worried but I've been hit with infrasound and I don't believe I have the rapport I would like to establish with them, and its better to play it safe.
Guest Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 Is it possible to learn anything from succeeding generations of our forefathers by preceding generations of Bigfoot researchers? How intelligent are these things? Do they recognize the use of tools and how prevalent is the neck break, as a distinct of signature of killing prey? Delaware County's Wild Man. He Eats Horses - Described as a Giant and of Hairy Appearance Reign of Terror. One night recently, as Peter Thomas was driving along a lonely road, he startled by seeing a wild-eyed man or ape, whose ferocious appearance frightened him into a state of helplessness. The creature jumped into the road, seized the rear horse, with a single sweep of its long hairy arm tore the harness from the trembling beast, and after breaking the horse's neck with a single deft twist, dragged him into the woods and out of sight. Mr. Thomas was too frightened to give a definite description of the creature, but it firm in his declaration that it was a man. Saturday the excitement was still further increased by the discovery of what had evidently been the camp of the creature. A big fire was still smoldering and nearby was a portion of the carcass of Mr. Thomas' horse, and scattered about were the bones and remains of several cows, sheep and other animals. Middletown Daily Argus, Middletown, N.Y., Saturday, July 27, 1895
georgerm Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) In my experience in this topic is quite similar. The agitation arrived when I approached the presence of something hidden but could not readily identify. It was my personal agitation in the sense that I understood and felt the sudden change, and I was helpless to control it. For an individual that spent all his adult life in control I could not under this circumstance. I was beset with annoyance over the fact that all the professional and military experience didn't provide one clue that something was observing me without my permission... I never detected the overwhelming odors that time but certainly have in Tennessee and another time in Michigan. The odor is uniquely strong and unforgettable. There are few things that I experienced worse than the odor they emit i.e. a charred body or decaying human flesh. For the most part, you are referring to extrasensory perception or ESP. Do some people know something is there, such as a bigfoot or dogman, but you can't smell, touch, hear, see, or taste it? Yuck, tasting bigfoot. The 6th sense or ESP tells you it's there and your head remains on your shoulders while you quietly back up. Those with out ESP.........................well...............this topic is really gross. Pop goes the Weasel as Jay said. My guess is some are gifted with this ability. Go into the woods with them, and keep you head in place. So is ESP a fact, fiction, or unproven? In the 1930s, at Duke University in North Carolina J. B. Rhine and his wife Louisa tried to develop psychical research into an experimental science. To avoid the connotations of hauntings and the seance room, they renamed it "parapsychology". While Louisa Rhine concentrated on collecting accounts of spontaneous cases, J. B. Rhine worked largely in the laboratory, carefully defining terms such as ESP and psi and designing experiments to test them. A simple set of cards was developed, originally called Zener cards[8] - now called ESP cards. They bear the symbols circle, square, wavy lines, cross, and star; there are five cards of each in a pack of 25. In a telepathy experiment, the "sender" looks at a series of cards while the "receiver" guesses the symbols. To try to observe clairvoyance, the pack of cards is hidden from everyone while the receiver guesses. To try to observe precognition, the order of the cards is determined after the guesses are made.............. ................. Soal (another researcher) re-analysed his data for evidence of what Carington (another researcher) termed displacement. (ESP) Soal discovered, to his surprise, that four of his former participants, Randolph Tucker Pendleton IV, Amanda Bailey, Ling Dao and Rachel Brown, evidenced displacement: i.e., their responses significantly corresponded to targets............... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extrasensory_perception This experiment with the cards would be easy to do. This tell me that some people are gifted with ESP while others aren't. Those who aren't are more likely to run into bigfoot and have their heads pulled off! Edited October 24, 2014 by georgerm
Guest Posted October 24, 2014 Posted October 24, 2014 Do we underestimate their intelligence? Here is another example of Bigfoot displaying their proclivity to confound and confuse our understanding of them by use of tools or weapons. Giant Wild Man In Jersey Woods His Big Club And Streaming Hair Fill Montclair Folks With Terror Police find gnawed bones and embers of fires, but fail to get the wild man. (Special Associated Press Service) New York, July 30 - Policemen are making a search of the woods on the outskirts of Montclair, N.J. in an effort to find a giant wild man, with long, streaming hair, who for days has been spreading terror throughout the neighborhood of his haunt. They have found every evidence that a savage being of some kind has been inhabiting the strip of forest. There are gnawed bones of animals and fowls which fallen victims to the prowess of the wild huntsman. Near one of the heaps of ashes was a rude club. The Post Standard, Syracuse, N.Y., Tuesday Morning, July 31, 1900 Hello Geogerm - Well, you certainly gave it considerable thought and made some interesting points. I had to read those last two sentences twice and admit, it had me laughing a bit ... Good post.
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