Catmandoo Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 SS, do your dogs growl/whine or run and hide when they have a reaction? Same time of day? The horse approach is not new. A 'quiet' approach is also on foot, no noise, no talking. Years ago I made a 'horse-cicle'. I separated a horse blanket. Grouped together horse blanket yarns and horse tail hairs. Bunched tightly together and tied, with a lanyard coming out of the top for hanging. Next, placed the bundle in a plastic bag and into a small coffee can. Added water and froze it. I packed it uphill to a camera trap site. I placed it up a tree, probably about 15'. This was summertime so the drips increased during daylight and slowed down at night. The black bears went nuts. They thought they scored big time. They climbed the tree, took a few licks and departed very disappointed. Bears have excellent smell. Several problems with this test. Horse blankets sold on craigslist are laundered. Wool horse blankets are not the best to soak up 'horse scent'. Horse tail hair, probably from overseas, is washed also. The 'olfactory' signals were weak. The bears picked up the scent, but it was weak. If I do this again, it will be with an unwashed horse blanket and hair. Packing a block of ice uphill in a trail-less area is a lot of fun. Few of us have horses. I have been on horses. Most members here have not. There are restricted areas in the National Forests where pack horses and pack llamas are allowed. Llamas will point at danger and they do not defecate on the trail. Another pack animal that 'points' is the 'pack goat'. Pack goats have small regional popularity and I think that they would bring in a cougar in my area. Most areas do not allow pack animals.
Guest Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 The horse approach is not new. A 'quiet' approach is also on foot, no noise, no talking. How about also on a mountain bicycle, downhill? Rolling down the back roads. It's quiet and swift.
SWWASAS Posted January 18, 2015 BFF Patron Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) Seems to me there are basically 3 main ways to have an encounter. Road or trail crossing, chance encounter where you manage to approach a BF unawares, and they find you. From my experience the third is most likely. If you are interesting they will approach you. Of course one of the best ways to be in one area for a long time is just camp in an active area and wait for them to come in. The road or trail crossing is totally random, very rare and you might have to hike, ride or drive the rest of your life and it might never occur. Bicycle is certainly a way to make that more likely in that they might not hear you approaching and step out. I think many road crossing sightings with motor vehicles, the BF just misjudge how long it will take you to get in sight and walk across when they should have waited. In the woods off a quiet logging road, you can hear the motor vehicle approach for a long time, and it is difficult to tell when it will come into sight. So I can see how a BF gets caught crossing the road fairly often. The chance encounter where you manage to catch them unaware is rare, and reports indicate a BF may be engrossed chasing a deer, in a stream catching fish, or pulling up root plants. It is apparently engrossed in some activity, a stream's noise may be masking your sound, and they are just not aware you are around. I had one of these and I had reversed direction three times and if the BF knew I was in the area, they must have lost track of what direction I was headed and blundered into me. It would help to be totally quiet, and unpredictable with your movements when in an active area if you want to increase the odds of one of these type encounters. . However it happens it is a rare event and much of it is out of our control. They are so much better at avoiding us than we are at finding them, that the hunting techniques used in stalking a deer or other game animals just does not have much chance to work with BF. Many hunting encounters the hunters are in deer tree stands and BF may not be used to looking up to see humans. So a tree stand might be a good method. Edited January 18, 2015 by SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT
Catmandoo Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 Neanderfoot, one has to peddle the bike uphill before the descent. Many do not want that work out, especially with a backpack. Mountain bikes make some noise. Cougars like them. There are reports of bikers being 'cleaned off' of a bike by cats. Bites and scratches for most. A mountain bike is the best cat toy in the forest. Most humans still have the 'saber tooth tiger thing' in our genetic memories so we tend to look behind ourselves to see what is sneaking up on us. I have encouraged the mountain bikers that I have encountered to wear a 'face/eye' mask on the back of their hats. Cats don't like that. Works well in the agricultural areas of southeast asia. A wheeled vehicle implies trails and roads. Get off of the roads. Trail-less track-less areas are far more interesting but you have to use boots.
SWWASAS Posted January 19, 2015 BFF Patron Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Cat most of what you say I agree with, but only some of the stuff about cougars. I do have problem with your last sentence. While it sounds good in principal it depends on where you are. In my area in the PNW, if you drive to the woods, park someplace, it has to be some sort of trail head or access point, just to have a place to park. Then what? If you avoid trails as you mention, you can literally spend hours going a few hundred yards. Heavy underbrush, down wood, making a lot of noise along the way, crawling over and under logs, the going can be very hard. The more open forest in Eastern Oregon and Washington, where you can walk through the forest off trail, is pretty rare West of the Cascades. On the other hand using a hiking trail and hiking or riding a bike in, can put you miles into the woods where you can start off trail work. Here so many logging and forest service roads are closed, that the only option getting into some back areas is to hike or ride a bike. You just go around the closed gate and use the logging roads. Bikes are allowed pretty much anywhere on hiking trails but anything with a motor is not. So if you use a bike as a form of transportation just to get into interesting areas it can really open up a wider area for doing field work. Ride in, park the bike and hike around, then coast downhill coming out. Without some form of mechanical transportation you can only nibble at the edges of BF habitat, and those edges are where people are that BF tend to avoid. Yes uphill is work on a bike, but it is work on foot too. Someone that avoids uphill on a bike is unlikely to hike up hill on foot anyway. Edited January 19, 2015 by SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT
WSA Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Great discussion about mountain bikes and access. They do get you "in" as quicker than any non-motorized travel, and with a minimum of noise. Randy's point is well taken for us here in the S.E. too...too much jimmy-bad understory to make a bike very useful off of a fire road or dedicated bike single-track. Still, I had a friend who used a junker m.b., painted entirely (tires too) flat green/brown to reduce visibility, as his quick/silent way into his deer stand. Compared to the most common mode of access, an ATV, this is so much better. I tend to think of any human entering a wild area as something like diving into a large pool of water. The fewer ripples you make, the quicker the woods and everything in it forgets you are there. On a mountain bike, you can reduce your ripples by keeping your drivetrain clean and functioning smoothly. Nothing says "I'm here" quite like dropping into a chainring with a huge "Ker-CHUNK!!" Anticipating grade changes and shifting before you put tension on your chain is also helpful. If you've got a squealing brake (caliper type) you can take the glaze off of your rims with a scotchbrite pad, and replace those old, glazed brake pads. It is rare to find nowadays, but some old bikes still have a freewheel bearing that will give out an audible tic-tic-tic as it turns. You can swap that out for a silent one, if so. If you've got a bag of tools hanging under your seat, wrap the contents in a rag so they won't clink and clank over every bump. Clipless pedals can give out a surprisingly loud snap when you lock in and out, so you need to watch for that. I had a m.b. once that had a bad case of "crank creak", which required me to tighten the crank bolts ever so often. With the passing of the square tapered bottom bracket, I think this is no longer an issue for new bikes, but those bikes are still out there. Your chain slapping against the chainstay is another thing to watch. You can simply wrap several layers of duct-tape around the stay, or put a piece of split tubing over it. I agree that huffing like a freight train on a steep grade doesn't really get you much stealth. Sometimes the smart thing to do is just get off an push if you're straining. (Oh, and take the playing cards out of your spokes too..). Probably the hardest thing to do on an off-road bike is watch your track and the surrounding woods at the same time. While a bike will get you deeper into the woods quicker, you have a trade-off. It is possible to zip right past something interesting without knowing it is there. Keep that head on a swivel. Edited January 19, 2015 by WSA
SWWASAS Posted January 19, 2015 BFF Patron Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) The facts about cougar attacks show it is pretty rare. Look up North Amercan Cougar Attacks in Wikapedia. Since 1890 to 2011 there have only been 20 people verified to be killed by cougars. Most of them are on Vancouver Island, BC. A kid on a tricycle and one person on a bicycle were the only ones reported to be killed during that time on a bicycle. During a single year in in the US alone, 40 to 50 people are killed by lightning. So lightning is far more dangerous than cougars. People are more likely to get killed driving their cars to where they ride their mountain bikes than being killed by a cougar when they ride. Risks that low are very acceptable. If not just stay home but avoid your bathroom. It is dangerous too. Edited January 19, 2015 by SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT
Guest Stan Norton Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Plenty of MAMILs to be seen when out biking. Middle Aged Men In Lycra. Guaranteed to scare off all wildlife in the vicinity! And not notice that there was any in the first place... Edited January 19, 2015 by Stan Norton
WSA Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 Roadies are an invansive species Stan. Just say no to day-glo is my motto. I always get a lift when I'm out on the roads of my neighborhood and come up behind a group of roadies poking along. I'll zip past them and be pulling ahead before they wake up to the fact that they just got passed by a guy with knobby tires. When they do, it is all over as my rolling resistance can't compete on that level in the least. I always wonder what the point is of that too. I mean, are you out to set a speed record (and judging from their pace, I'm doubting it), or to look cool (well, they think they do anyway) or to get as much exercise as you can in the time you have? If it is the last one, the bigger and gnarlier the tire the better....Hell, drag a cinderblock on a rope if you are really serious!
norseman Posted January 19, 2015 Admin Posted January 19, 2015 SS, do your dogs growl/whine or run and hide when they have a reaction? Same time of day?The horse approach is not new. A 'quiet' approach is also on foot, no noise, no talking.Years ago I made a 'horse-cicle'. I separated a horse blanket. Grouped together horse blanket yarns and horse tail hairs. Bunched tightly together and tied, with a lanyard coming out of the top for hanging. Next, placed the bundle in a plastic bag and into a small coffee can. Added water and froze it. I packed it uphill to a camera trap site. I placed it up a tree, probably about 15'. This was summertime so the drips increased during daylight and slowed down at night. The black bears went nuts. They thought they scored big time. They climbed the tree, took a few licks and departed very disappointed. Bears have excellent smell. Several problems with this test. Horse blankets sold on craigslist are laundered. Wool horse blankets are not the best to soak up 'horse scent'. Horse tail hair, probably from overseas, is washed also. The 'olfactory' signals were weak. The bears picked up the scent, but it was weak. If I do this again, it will be with an unwashed horse blanket and hair. Packing a block of ice uphill in a trail-less area is a lot of fun.Few of us have horses. I have been on horses. Most members here have not. There are restricted areas in the National Forests where pack horses and pack llamas are allowed. Llamas will point at danger and they do not defecate on the trail. Another pack animal that 'points' is the 'pack goat'. Pack goats have small regional popularity and I think that they would bring in a cougar in my area. Most areas do not allow pack animals. Most areas where?
Lake County Bigfooot Posted January 20, 2015 Author Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Well I have been out driving fairly deserted roads in the Green Swamp area west of Orlando, Fl a really cool area with some history of sightings as well. What strikes me most about Florida is the vast contrast, Orlando with its semi urban sprawl, and then you drive a couple of miles and you are an area that is vast, has no chance of ever being really developed, and is basically too difficult to penetrate, except that the Florida Bike trail goes through it and the previous posts gave me an idea to rent a bike and ride it at dusk. A road crossing is possible, but it might also be hard to catch due to twisting roads and dense vegetation. I will continue this little adventure and maybe even record overnight for the heck of it. So many isolated homes on the edge of the Swamp, makes me wonder how many of those people have had activity on their property. Certainly garners consideration for my future move down here, I might want to park it right next to that stinking swamp, because I can guarantee that it is home to at least several groups. Brings back to memory John Greens lament for Florida, and the loss of valuable habitat, because if ever there was a place suitable for a primate, it would be these wet expanses of Florida. Edited January 20, 2015 by Lake County Bigfooot 1
Catmandoo Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Norseman, a correction is in order as you indicated with 'most areas'....... 'Some areas' do not allow pack animals. There are many trails open to horses and pack animals in Washington State. Each National Forest and National Park will list horse friendly and off limit areas. I am not around many horse approved trails. I will have to check trail head message boards and signage on roads this week. Seems like more and more roads are being closed/blocked off these days.
norseman Posted January 20, 2015 Admin Posted January 20, 2015 I know of very very few trails off limits to pack animals in Eastern Washington. The Hoodoo canyon trail comes to mind. Same goes for most of the northern Rockies. Both national forest and wilderness area. I'm a member of the back country horsemen, and pack stock are crucial in keeping trails open to all users. As the forest service is normally broke and short handed.
WSA Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) LCB....nice plan. If you get out early/late in the day, when light angles are low, your conditions for "cutting" a track will be optimum. When I bike or walk sandy fireroadsd my head is bobbing up and down....looking up, looking down. If you come to a low area where water is pooled or flowing on either side, that is a place to pay some extra attention, of course. You may have already thought of this too: From all of the road crossing accounts I've read, and the objective evidence showing the length of stride, you'll probably only be looking for a single print on the roadbed, not a series of tracks. I think this disguises a lot of trackways from those who are accustomed to seeing a few prints in a line. Add to this the fact that most roadbeds have a strip of grass/gravel down the middle beause of 4-wheel traffic and you have your work cut out for you. Any intelligent critter who is mindful of leaving sign, and who has the stride length to do it, will merely tap that center strip on its way through, and it won't leave much sign to show you it did it. Ditto as to walking along the road. Even if it is inclined to do that, it is most likely going to be hugging a shoulder, another place to look. But, everything gets lazy and sloppy at times. Happy hunting. Let us know if you find anything interesting. Edited January 20, 2015 by WSA
SWWASAS Posted January 20, 2015 BFF Patron Posted January 20, 2015 Most of my footprint finds are on trail margins. BF will not walk down a trail but will cross them by stepping on one side margin then stepping across the trail. So I am always watching the undisturbed trail margins as well as any game trail that crosses human trails. Speaking of horses, I had my Bad Dog two wheel ATV out yesterday. Too cold to be comfortable on it and still testing reliability. There are a few ATV trails, motor bike trails, but mostly I intend to use little used and overgrown logging roads to get into the really distant and high elevation areas where hiking or biking would be a hell of a climb. Who knows maybe I will encounter a BF that is like the dog on the corner near my house, that will want to chase me. Thinking about making a trailer for it so I can haul camping gear into remote locations that are not reachable with a normal vehicle. It has plenty of power. Get there, park it, and hike around the area.
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