Collection Of Voucher Specimens

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

The only way Sasquatch could be modern human, is if they are genetically modified modern humans. Other than that, there's just no way.

[southernyahoo]

Crazy.

you think im turning my back on DNA science? how on earth can it hide as a piggy back species to homo sapien sapiens?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denisova_hominin

read that, they know for instance that modern European and Asian populations carry 2-5% Neanderthal DNA. they also know that modern Melanesian and Australian aborigine DNA carries roughly the same amount of Denisovian DNA.

so where is this Squatch DNA? if the samples come back as modern human? your proposing that they are Homo Sapien Sapiens? basically a giant hairy race of retarded people running around the woods living like animals?

wouldnt a much more plausible explanation be that the samples were simply contaminated by Human DNA? have we ever had a bone to draw DNA samples from? no of course not. hair and stool samples make up the samples........

when Europeans landed in north America? Homo Sapien Sapien was already here, smart, cunning, deadly. And they were obliterated......... why? Cuz they competed for the same niche......the human one. and their technological advancements were less than European ones.

Sasquatch bypasses all that because it doesnt compete for the same niche, because it aint human.......... Remote, rare, nocturnal, and Ape smart is plenty enough to escape our detection officially. Intelligence did not do native Americans any good. luckily for squatch its not his chosen battlefield. Remote forests and mountains are...... they have no need to come down to the valleys were humans are......

Is Melba Ketchum still taken seriously? Your hypothesis reeks of her kool aid. Disotell said it best......."40,000 years ago? Us was US!"

Sasquatch would push 700 lbs, that's alot of bambi protien it needs. Did we not eat deer during our invasion of this continent?

 

I don't even have to rely on Ketchum. Her methods though of testing the mtDNA is just what any other scientist would do and Disotell has actually found nothing different regardless of who sent in the sample. The results....."No Divergence" from us..... I don't expect that to change.....But it should be a serious question where the real sasquatch samples are, since they can visit people who stay in cabins in SE Oklahoma regularly, but never leave a nest  or scat or hair sample to be found.

 

when Europeans landed in north America? Homo Sapien Sapien was already here, smart, cunning, deadly.

 

 Those sapiens told us of Squatch taking fish from their nets too. There are also more contemporary reports of Squatch taking the deer we shoot and kill.

 

And they were obliterated......... why? Cuz they competed for the same niche......the human one. and their technological advancements were less than European ones.

 

 

Europeans just decided they could just take what they wanted, it wasn't about niche competition, it was about control of the land and it's use.

 

 have we ever had a bone to draw DNA samples from

 

 

 

Who would know and call it a squatch if it just gave human DNA? Strangely, this has happened with hair samples in archaeological digs and the DNA was European. They also dismissed the result as possible contamination.

[Yuchi1]

Nope.  Not backed up by anything in the narrative by NAWAC.  You'd have to show me chapter and verse, and yes I have read it.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Cstl-8xHAE

 

43:00-56:00

[norseman]

Sasquatch would push 700 lbs, that's alot of bambi protien it needs. Did we not eat deer during our invasion of this continent?

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Can you point to a Homo species in the fossil record that weighs that on average? Deer? Different species from different genus can be omnivores.

I don't even have to rely on Ketchum. Her methods though of testing the mtDNA is just what any other scientist would do and Disotell has actually found nothing different regardless of who sent in the sample. The results....."No Divergence" from us..... I don't expect that to change.....But it should be a serious question where the real sasquatch samples are, since they can visit people who stay in cabins in SE Oklahoma regularly, but never leave a nest or scat or hair sample to be found.

---------------------------

Then explain the drastic morphology differences between us and them. That counts too in anthropology.

Those sapiens told us of Squatch taking fish from their nets too. There are also more contemporary reports of Squatch taking the deer we shoot and kill.

-----------------------

grizzly bears do the same thing.... What is your point?

Europeans just decided they could just take what they wanted, it wasn't about niche competition, it was about control of the land and it's use.

------------------

Which is a niche! The mountains and swamps that seem to hold Squatch? Wasn't places we could replace Indian Squash with German Wheat!!!!

Who would know and call it a squatch if it just gave human DNA? Strangely, this has happened with hair samples in archaeological digs and the DNA was European. They also dismissed the result as possible contamination.

So ancient wayward Viking lost in the wilderness?

So Meldrum and Krantz's work such as the Bossburg tracks and the mid tarsal break evidently do not mean anything to you? What about Patty's body index? You really see a Sapien in that film? What about Munns work concerning the sloping forehead?

I'd say you pretty much have to through out all morphology evidence we have based on your DNA beliefs.

Not good.

[southernyahoo]

if the samples come back as modern human? your proposing that they are Homo Sapien Sapiens

 

 

I don't think you understand that mtDNA is inherited from the mother only and does not combine with the fathers mtDNA. Therefore new species can have the mtDNA of another and speciate through hydridization. This fact could explain the differences and the likeness to humans that sasquatch has and a metric ton of the evidence to date.

[norseman]

SY,

The only way what your proposing would work is if you took a DNA sample from a child born from a Squatch father and a human mother today.

If on the other hand the child was born 40,000 years ago and back bred into the Squatch population?

You would see what you see with living Europeans having up to 5% Neanderthal genes.

I'm European, but my MTDNA is not pristine Neanderthal DNA.

And that is giving you the benefit of the doubt that humans and squatch could reproduce viable offspring

Edited April 8, 2015 by norseman

[southernyahoo]

The only way what your proposing would work is if you took a DNA sample from a child born from a Squatch father and a human mother today.

 

 

This is where you are wrong. MtDNA doesn't recombine and remix. It takes time and it mutates over time, but it only comes from the mother to her children and her fertile daughters will pass it on virtually unchanged for hundreds or thousands of years.

 

As part of this theory, the hybrid offspring would have to be fertile or mostly fertile and would have to have been preferred mates among the other species of hominins. This could explain the disappearance of their own mtDNA (maternal) lineage. 

 

The nuDNA would remix every generation and would dilute quickly like what we see with Neanderthal nuDNA in modern Europeans.  They added a little something to our makeup but there is no trace of Neanderthal mtDNA in human populations, perhaps because those female offspring were infertile or were not preferred mates among male cro magnons ( as you would propose about Patty) or were outcasts and went to stay with the Neanderthals. 

 

Native Americans do tell the stories about abducted women and children, and if true, it could be rare, but ongoing. As I said, it would be a satellite piggy back species that only crosses with us in one direction and keeps the offspring to themselves.

 

This wouldn't be a comforting thing to unleash on the world, I realize, but unless something in the evidence changes drasticly, like finding Sasquatches true maternal lineage, this is what I have to work with which explains the most evidence in hand. 

[norseman]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_drift

The process of genetic drift can be illustrated using 20 marbles in a jar to represent 20 organisms in a population.[4] Consider this jar of marbles as the starting population. Half of the marbles in the jar are red and half blue, and both colors correspond to two different alleles of one gene in the population. In each new generation the organisms reproduce at random. To represent this reproduction, randomly select a marble from the original jar and deposit a new marble with the same color as its "parent" into a new jar. (The selected marble remains in the original jar.) Repeat this process until there are 20 new marbles in the second jar. The second jar then contains a second generation of "offspring," consisting of 20 marbles of various colors. Unless the second jar contains exactly 10 red marbles and 10 blue marbles, a random shift occurred in the allele frequencies.

Repeat this process a number of times, randomly reproducing each generation of marbles to form the next. The numbers of red and blue marbles picked each generation fluctuates: sometimes more red, sometimes more blue. This fluctuation is analogous to genetic drift – a change in the population's allele frequency resulting from a random variation in the distribution of alleles from one generation to the next.

It is even possible that in any one generation no marbles of a particular color are chosen, meaning they have no offspring. In this example, if no red marbles are selected the jar representing the new generation contains only blue offspring. If this happens, the red allele has been lost permanently in the population, while the remaining blue allele has become fixed: all future generations are entirely blue. In small populations, fixation can occur in just a few generations.

[norseman]

This is where you are wrong. MtDNA doesn't recombine and remix. It takes time and it mutates over time, but it only comes from the mother to her children and her fertile daughters will pass it on virtually unchanged for hundreds or thousands of years.

 

As part of this theory, the hybrid offspring would have to be fertile or mostly fertile and would have to have been preferred mates among the other species of hominins. This could explain the disappearance of their own mtDNA (maternal) lineage. 

 

The nuDNA would remix every generation and would dilute quickly like what we see with Neanderthal nuDNA in modern Europeans.  They added a little something to our makeup but there is no trace of Neanderthal mtDNA in human populations, perhaps because those female offspring were infertile or were not preferred mates among male cro magnons ( as you would propose about Patty) or were outcasts and went to stay with the Neanderthals. 

 

Native Americans do tell the stories about abducted women and children, and if true, it could be rare, but ongoing. As I said, it would be a satellite piggy back species that only crosses with us in one direction and keeps the offspring to themselves.

 

This wouldn't be a comforting thing to unleash on the world, I realize, but unless something in the evidence changes drasticly, like finding Sasquatches true maternal lineage, this is what I have to work with which explains the most evidence in hand.

Right. But the chance of human MtDNA living in a troupe of Sasquatch for tens of thousands of years is remote, nah, impossible. In order for your hypothesis to be correct? Sasquatch are stealing human women as mates each generation. And the sample collected is by chance only deposited by a hybrid.

this sounds like some right out of a tabloid......." I gave birth to Bigfoots baby!"

Todd Disotell is fully capable of unraveling nuclear DNA, and he is fully capable of placing it somewhere on the tree of life. If it's half human and half mystery hominin? He would be able to nail it. Unfortunately to date? All the samples are just mundane human. Probably caused by contamination.

Something a pro kill proponent and a dead specimen do not have to deal with. We would have morphology and physical exams out the kazoo. As well as DNA testing........forever. With no cause for alarm if the test destroyed the sample........

[southernyahoo]

You still aren't getting it.

 

 In order for your hypothesis to be correct? Sasquatch are stealing human women as mates each generation. And the sample collected is by chance only deposited by a hybrid.

 

 

 

It doesn't have to happen every generation, it can spead like wildfire multiplying every generation. Like I said, this would have to have been going on a long time like probably before migrating to this continent. The Sasquatch maternal lineage should be out there and if you were right, it would be much easier to locate and distinguish in the samples.

 

If a Sasquatch were to die and there was a choice, You'd want it to be a male, because the Y chromosome (nuDNA) would also have the paternal lineage, and there should be something preserved there from the progenitor.

 

Todd Disotell is fully capable of unraveling nuclear DNA, and he is fully capable of placing it somewhere on the tree of life. If it's half human and half mystery hominin? He would be able to nail it. Unfortunately to date? All the samples are just mundane human. Probably caused by contamination.

 

 

He potentially could sequence nuDNA, but he doesn't. He sequences the mtDNA and makes the call It's quick and relatively cheap when you are just screening the samples. If he did nuDNA on the Sasquatch samples, I haven't heard of it. It's probably just too expensive and time consuming to put the effort in on something he doesn't believe in.

Edited April 9, 2015 by southernyahoo

[southernyahoo]

Watch and play the tutorials on this link Norseman, it is easier to understand with visual aids.

 

http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/chromosomes/types4/

[norseman]

Mr. xxxx

There are two possibilities to explain why so many samples come back with human mtDNA. One, it is human contamination/hoaxing/etc..., or it could be from hybrids. The second possibility seems extremely unlikely to me given the descriptions. I have been studying hybrid primates' genetics for over 23 years and usually, when there are rare hybridization events, the rarer mtDNA can disappear naturally relatively rapidly. Since the mtDNA of any female having no children or all male children goes extinct, when such matings are rare (and that's if they yield fertile offspring), it would be even more rare to find human mtDNA in such a potential hybrid.

I hope this clarifies some what.

Todd Disotell

[southernyahoo]

Where does this message come from Norse? Your personal correspondence?

 

 

BTW, Disotell doesn't necessarily disagree with what I've been telling you, he just doesn't feel it is likely based on what he knows about the other primates. It may be true that one mitochondrial lineage eventually prevails and he feels the rare one would be the human one. I wouldn't be to sure that Hominins would be playing by the same rules you see with ape clans where only the alpha male is allowed to breed with the females. It would change the multiplication factor. 

Edited April 9, 2015 by southernyahoo

[southernyahoo]

The only way Sasquatch could be modern human, is if they are genetically modified modern humans. Other than that, there's just no way.

 

You have to think that legally, if any part of them is 100% human, then they are 100% human, even if they have crazy stuff in their DNA, which would explain their differences, because we just don't allow monsters in this world.

[norseman]

http://anthropology.as.nyu.edu/object/todddisotell.html

I emailed him

Edited April 9, 2015 by norseman