What About The Bones?

[Guest Divergent1]

Maybe so, but that's not how my mother explained the concept. The NA diidn't have a legal system to use as an instrument that staked ownership of the land itself. They occupied the land.

[bipedalist]

I have to disagree with Divergent's assertion that Native Americans did not own land.     I would say that the cliff dwellers of Arizona, and the Mississippi Mound Dwellers would lay claim to their structures and the land they were on.    Coastal Native Americans in Washington and Oregon had log dwellings and small cities that were at the time of the start of the white Western migration larger than any white settlements West of the Mississippi.      The hunter gatherer concept for all NA is a myth promoted by the US Government to justify Native Americans being displaced from lands the white settlers wanted.    Certainly Midwest buffalo dependent NA were hunter gatherers and followed the herds and the US Government wanted to portray all NA tribes as being like that to seize land.  

 

It would not be surprising that a large percentage of the BF population would be deaf.      Given their expected life span at least comparable to humans,    ear infections and lack of antibiotics to treat them, would make a fairly large percentage of the population deaf.       Just as it was in pre-antibiotic times for humans.    The juvenile years, as it is with human babies, being when they would be most susceptible to ear infections.   Throw in parasites and the incidence of deafness would climb higher than in pre-antibiotic humans.      I have thought that deafness might be the reason for all the road crossing sightings from a normally reclusive creature.     But I don't think that we can assume from a few witness accounts that the whole BF population is deaf.     Perhaps that deafness is what caused the sighting to happen in the first place. 

 

 

Yes, the Cherokee had longhouses and developed civilization too.  Even a written language, syllabary,  and newspaper.   Didn't keep the Cherokee from losing their land after winning a Supreme Court challenge that was not enforced by Andrew Jackson's court.   Sometimes the resources on the land was most of what they wanted, still title to the land came later for that coastal Washington set of nations.   I posted up a history of how that came down under the Sasquatch Summit thread in media earlier today.  

 

Ear infections in young humans came about before development of the Eustachian tube matured and from bottle feedings more than anything.  

 

I think if anything BF's are more visual and rely on gestures that may lead those to believe they may be deaf at times.   If you operate at night and have the visual signaling apparatus they have and also use wood knocking forms of communication I think they have many multisensory virtues in abundance from which to rely upon.   

Edited June 1, 2015 by bipedalist

[Guest]

Yeah, I think good sense of hearing would be indispensable in staying as secret and evasive as the BFs are said to be.

[jayjeti]

Mankind itself has gone through evolutions where skills and knowledge disappeared with civilizations.     With the cradle of humanity around the Mediterranean Sea, many fairly advanced civilizations have been destroyed by volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, tsunamis, etc.  Throw in the fact that mankind loves to conquer and destroy other cultures along with all of their records and knowledge.   The Minoans were quite advanced and are thought to have even sailed to North America.    But their entire civilization along with advanced tool and metal use was destroyed in a volcanic eruption and tsunami.    Their culture was unknown to mankind until ruins were found in the 20th century.    The fewer the number of an culture the more likely cultural knowledge like tool use dies out with individuals or groups.    Perhaps the scattered BF settlements and few numbers have caused such cultural knowledge and tool usage to die out  in many areas because without writing there is no way to transfer that information to follow on generations if knowledgeable individuals die.   I am sure it is much like humans in the hunter gatherer stage of development before settlements.    Individuals or small groups did not interact much with other small groups because they normally had territorial and adversarial relationships competing for the same food sources.      From what little we know about BF it seems they have the same issues with territory.    That tends to compartmentalize tribes and minimize transfer of cultural knowledge tribe to tribe. 

 

 

I don't know of a great upheaval that wiped out bigfoot populations or of a comparison, like the Minoans, where one can point to tool use they once had before a disaster wiped out their civilization.  No one really knows sasquatch numbers or if they've experienced a sharp decline.  We really know nothing of how they interact among themselves either, including how they defend territory.  Many at least do local migrations to different areas.  Someone first needs to demonstrate these skills they once had to say they lost them.  But I do understand some of the conjecture you're trying to get at.

Edited June 1, 2015 by jayjeti

[SWWASAS]

I don't know of a great upheaval that wiped out bigfoot populations or of a comparison, like the Minoans, where one can point to tool use they once had before a disaster wiped out their civilization.  No one really knows sasquatch numbers or if they've experienced a sharp decline.  We really know nothing of how they interact among themselves either, including how they defend territory.  Many at least do local migrations to different areas.  Someone first needs to demonstrate these skills they once had to say they lost them.  But I do understand some of the conjecture you're trying to get at.

Just my Minoan example shows that you are incorrect.      A Minoan find in the late 1800s was of a series of bronze gears, interconnected, with an unknown purpose.    Subsequent analysis determined the device to be a analogue computer, capable of calculating moon phases and eclipses.      That knowledge was lost with the destruction of the Minoan culture with the eruption and tsunami.    The analogue computer was not reinvented for another 1400 years.   Who knows what else the Minoans had that was lost at the time.   They were accomplished sailors and their ships had capabilities that would not be rediscovered for centuries.         Just through the human dark ages in the 1300s much of the knowledge of the Minoans,   Greeks, Romans, and Egyptians was lost to mankind until rediscovered later through archeology and discovering how to read the ancient writings.     The dark age Europeans were living in primitive conditions where as previous cultures had running hot running water, sewage systems, and complex machinery.    The Europeans were not living that way out of choice, but because the knowledge of how to do that had been lost with the failure of more advanced previous civilizations.       The burning of the library at Alexandria destroyed much ancient knowledge we will never recover.     Mankinds history is one of constant collapses of cultures and civilizations and lost knowledge.    I wonder how many times starting fire or the spear was invented and the knowledge died with the inventor.      I bet hundreds if not thousands of times.  

 

I think the North American Mayan invasion could have been that great upheaval that you question with regards to BF.    Perhaps it forced them to flee the Mississippi valley and head for the distant woods.     Just the influx of European settlers headed west and the fire arm has to have had great impact on BF life.    Humans have to have been the most significant impact to BF no matter where they came from.    So all we have to do to find the biggest impact on BF existence is look in the mirror.      

Edited June 1, 2015 by SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT

[BigTreeWalker]

Here's a link to 'Mitchel Townsend Sits Down With Ed Brown' about our research. I will not be able to listen to it until later, but here it is.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AzRDT9NY3vw&spfreload=10

[1980squatch]

Out 2 miles from home, near dark, with a 12 gauge, 6 years old!  

[BigTreeWalker]

Like I said. I haven't listened to it yet. That will be a few hours from now.

He must have been a wild kid. Or there was lack of adult supervision. Also different mindset back in the sixties and seventies.

[1980squatch]

Yes, I have it on now and that was just a minute in, answering the usual "how did it all start question"...  following that story and a bit more background, the show is very much on the details of the topic.  I like Ed Brown interviews very much, he is great in letting the guest speak, only interrupting to gently steer the show now and then.

[BigTreeWalker]

Mitch told me he would try to stick to the facts and stay away from the speculation this time. I'm looking forward to listening to it.

[jayjeti]

Just my Minoan example shows that you are incorrect.      

 

Nothing shows I'm incorrect or correct on bigfoot losing technology they once had, your supposition is very subjective on them losing skills they once had.  The Minoans were "completely" wiped out (bad example to use for bigfoot lost technology).  Its an unknown if bigfoot populations had some sudden catastrophic decline or even if they had a massive depopulation slowly.  As I said before, to support your premise you need to show skills they once had that they lost and evidence that bigfoot has suffered a massive depopulation.  I'm not saying bigfoot did or did not lose skills they once had.  All I've said is we don't have evidence that they were once more technologically advanced but lost those skills due to a massive depopulation.  So, I'm not sure why you deem that incorrect.

Mitch told me he would try to stick to the facts and stay away from the speculation this time. I'm looking forward to listening to it.

 

That's great.  You don't want to look ridiculous in the scientific realm.  Wild speculations can hurt what you're trying to achieve.  

Edited June 1, 2015 by jayjeti

[SWWASAS]

I think you are right in that we cannot know if BF have lost knowledge or use of tools because we have no idea what they even use now.       You seemed to imply that mankind had not lost technology and wanted to apply that to BF.     Perhaps I read something wrong into what you said?    Anyway human influx and settlement into NA has to have put pressures on BF populations.    That is probably the single most significant factor impacting their survival and numbers.       We are their disaster, have fragmented their populations, separated their tribes with human settlement,  made intertribal communication difficult if they had it before,    made hunting difficult, affected their ability to find food, and probably have reduced genetic diversity because of forcing tribal inbreeding due to tribal separation .      I  think it totally illogical to assume their population has not declined. 

[1980squatch]

Mitch told me he would try to stick to the facts and stay away from the speculation this time. I'm looking forward to listening to it.

 

No worries, he presented the research well.  Except, hope you were ready to be outed by name

[BigTreeWalker]

Had to happen sooner or later. It was expected.

[BigTreeWalker]

Mr Townsend actually managed to stay on track. He did a very good job covering our research. If you want to know which direction we are going with respect to publishing he also covers that. I was impressed.