What About The Bones?

[Guest Divergent1]

Thanks for all you're doing concerning the teeth of these guys and for getting others to help as well.  The teeth that have been reported that I can recall are:  big square with no canines noticed, large teeth, maybe twice the human size but having double rows, large teeth with canines showing and pointy, teeth as big as horse teeth (no details). 

 

My incisors are scooped in the back with a ridge just before the gum line but I found out that not all people have that shape.  Hubby's are totally smooth in the back, so my point is what if the hairy people have similar differences depending on where they migrated from and what the dna might show if we were able to go back that far?? 

I see what you are saying. I don't think the tooth shape would affect the radius which to me is the main distinguishing factor. What I'm getting out of this is that we need more impressions in bone for comparison so we can rule out known carnivores and ominvores, including humans. If we can do that, then it leaves a big question mark as to what actually ate the kills.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Divergent1

[BigTreeWalker]

The radius that we are measuring is a function of the front of the teeth and the shape of the jaw. If you look at the images of EK#1 we have a very good impression of the shape of the incisors where one bit through the bone. They are very human-like, by this I mean primate like, just very big. The more evidence we can collect and analyse the stronger the case for something unknown being the cause.

If you look at the skulls on that link I gave, you can see that the order Carnivora have more rectangular shaped jaws with little to no curve to the incisors. Also as I mentioned previously the order Carnivora have 6 incisors. As you can see from the table in my previous post six of these incisors will not fit between the canines of any of the known carnivores.

[Airdale]

In Les Stroud's latest "Survivorman Bigfoot" episode filmed in Texas and Utah, he made an interesting comment. During the second segment, in Utah, he found the skeletal remains of a deer and examined them. After looking at a leg with some hide still attached and checking out the skull, he picked up what appeared to be the shoulders and pointed out some bite marks that, in the brief time displayed, appeared to fit with some of the things you're finding, BigTreeWalker. While displaying the bones he mentioned that he knew of some people, scientists or researchers, don't recall which, that were interested in that.

[BigTreeWalker]

Thanks for the heads up Airedale. I can't watch Survivorman on TV. Have to wait till it shows up elsewhere. I don't know for sure but he could have been talking about our research. I do know Les has been in touch with my research partner.

[Guest UPs]

For what it is worth, before I had any idea that bf could be something other than a myth, I came across a very strange area in the woods while tracking a bow shot deer. The specific details of what I found are in a much older post (BFF1), but basically, I found a bunch of deer skeletons laid very close to each other and within 30-40 ft, I found a very unusual jawbone. It looked very similar to a human jawbone, but was much larger than my own. I never picked it up and left the area immediately (I sensed immediate danger), but visually, the jawbone looked very square. In that I mean very wide compare to its length. I used my hand to measure my own jaw and then visually compared it to what I was seeing. Not even close to my outside measurements. I now this is very unscientific and had I known it could have been important, I would have taken it with me before I hauled out of there. Only thing else that stands out is that it was under some wet leaves and was very green colored from some growth on just the surface of it. If what I saw was from a bf, their jaw will be much wider than a humans but not proportionality as long. And yes, I went back to that area many times trying to find it again and only found other smaller animal bones. I also checked with a SAR group and no recent missing folks near this area.

I really hope you get the answers many if us are looking for and I think your technique may be what finally gets more scientists interested in the subject, nice job so far. UPs

[BigTreeWalker]

Thanks UPs. You know what they say about hindsight. Daveedoe also mentioned finding a possible bigfoot bone and leaving it where it was. The only question I have about collecting such evidence is if the authorities get wind of it and get it in their heads it's a crime scene, where does that leave the person that did the collecting? And what happens to the bones even if it's determined not to be human?

[SWWASAS]

The answer to this is be educated and smart enough to recognize a human bone and dumb enough to take the chance you are wrong and take it out of the area. A jaw bone twice the size of your own is unlikely to be human. Skull sutures are most likely different. The human thigh bone is not likely to be longer than 20 inches. If you are not sure measure the femur and measure the length of the two bones in the forearm. Humans have an established ratio of size comparison. Something well outside the norm is not likely human. If you are not sure, measure at the site, go home and look things up, and decide. If you figure out it to be human then bring the authorities in. They would not expect some lay person to know human from something else without a token examination on your part. If you mess up and bring a bone out because you don't think it human, then figure out it is human, you could always take a bone back to the location and call the authorities in. They only know what you tell them. This feeling we always need permission of the government to do anything is getting out of hand and very dangerous.

[daveedoe]

Thanks UPs. You know what they say about hindsight. Daveedoe also mentioned finding a possible bigfoot bone and leaving it where it was. The only question I have about collecting such evidence is if the authorities get wind of it and get it in their heads it's a crime scene, where does that leave the person that did the collecting? And what happens to the bones even if it's determined not to be human?

 

At the time we found the bone we discussed the possibility's of what we found. We looked around for more bones but did not find any. The bone was very fresh and clean. We discussed bringing it in to the authorities, but not sure which authority to bring it to. Our fear was if it was human and a crime scene, would we be suspects in a murder investigation. Not finding anything else at the time it seemed most likely to be an elk, deer or maybe a Bigfoot.  

 

This reminds me of a friend who is an avid sea kayak-er.  He has found as he describes it 3 "floaters" (dead body's) in the Columbia River. He has always calls the sheriff. The first two times he had to remain on scene till the investigation was over, the third time he just called the body in and told them where the location was.

 

 

 

[BigTreeWalker]

SWWSP, I only brought that up as a reminder. For me it's not about permission, it's about consequences. That needs to be decided by the individual. I would have no problem distinguishing an adult sasquatch bones from a human, others might. If I found what I determined to be a sasquatch bone it would definitely be coming out of the woods with me.

In the SW WA Field Work thread I posted some comparison pictures of various animals and human humerus and femur bones. Post #47.

http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/48698-sw-wa-field-work/page-3#entry897344

Randy also stated the average sizes of these bones if human. Hopefully this will help out if such bones are found in the field.

Edited May 12, 2015 by BigTreeWalker

[Guest]

Good stuff, thanks for that. 

 

I've been saying things to the effect, for a while, that we need to classify this "humanlike" stuff from stuff that homo sap. sap, actually did, find the cracks, insert thin end of wedge, start hammering, figuratively.

 

We have to get forensic, as our fictional friend Holmes tells us "Eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth" 

[gotafeeling]

This thread is making me wish that bones don't make me go "eww". Very interesting stuff, and thank you BigTreeWalker, for all your work!

I don't wish to "hijack" or get off-track, but this is making me wonder about an experience I had.

I found a bunch of bones a few years ago, in an area that had me and my running partner thoroughly creeped-out. Wish I'd poked around more. Instead, we called the sheriff's dept, as the part of a  pelvis we could see looked possibly human. (To our lay-person's eyes). A few days later, my RN daughter went with me to check it out, when I hadn't gotten an update from the sheriff's "bone expert". (They said they'd call) There were a variety of bones, a pair of sunglasses, part of a swimsuit, a pair of jeans - all partially or fully under loose leaves. We didn't dig around too much. When the forensics woman from the SO called a week later, she said it was likely a poacher's dump. Coyote, elk, dog, deer were found. They had investigated because there were some missing persons in the area. They planned to set up a hidden camera.

Edited May 12, 2015 by gotafeeling

[BigTreeWalker]

Thanks gotafeeling. I would definitely call the authorities, as you did, if I found items of clothing associated with the site. It is odd to have that with the animal bones.

[Bigtex]

Here are two strange bone pictures;

 

#1 - Deer Leg Bone, IMO, have noticed for many years BF's will take Deer front legs with them for a marrow snack later 'on the go'. This one appeared to be hand cracked, with the marrow sucked out & the forearm meat nibbled off. Several have examined for teeth or strike marks to explain the break, but no sign of that. The skin was just pulled down like a banana peel. The weirdest thing of all though, was what was next to the leg when I found it, the head of the Deer, with the skin pulled off, eyes missing, the nose bitten off showing a pattern of 2 huge flat teeth, and the jaw pulled past 90 degrees with the tongue missing, both VERY fresh, maybe hours old. It was a gruesome scene, and have never seen anything quit like it before or since. I took the leg, but left the head......too gnarly, and when I went back the next day with gloves and a bag, it was gone, no where in the area. Didn't have a functioning camera that day unfortunately. 

 

#2 - Bovine Leg Bone, found this at night, had been raining, and was very fresh. There were no tracks or sign of the of this poor fellow anywhere in the area, the bone was completely picked clean of all the flesh, and not a tooth mark anywhere.....had never seen such a large fresh bone that had been picked so clean, and got a real uneasy feeling just being there.

[BigTreeWalker]

Interesting photos Bigtex. That deer leg looks broke, as you said, rather than gnawed on. I find your description of the skull very interesting. To bad you didn't have a camera with you.

That cow bone was definitely picked clean. Another snack to go?

[Bigtex]

The bone/head deal was 12 or so years ago, and Craig Woolheater was with me, if you know who he is. He had a camera & took pictures, but they didn't come out......BF's Curse strikes again:)

 

The cow bone deal was 5-6 years ago, and Shadoangel was with me on that one........you still hangin' around Shado?