Guest diana swampbooger Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 Just saw your question, Leaf. Apologies. Try noticing pressure with your skin...hands are easily the best at it. For instance, have you ever been in a warm room & opened the door to a cold room/outdoors. The cold feels like a wall, so to speak.
roguefooter Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) The main achievement I see with MikeP is he progressively learned how to gain their trust to the point of actual communication. If this was a hoax then why would it take 3 years to get anywhere with them? Hoaxers move much quicker and use much more straightforward tactics. I see a lot of ad hoc interaction and other areas that make it hard to fake. If it was fake then that is an awful lot of time spent at the editing board for little gain. You can recreate sounds in a controlled setting (as one forum member has done very well) but mixing that down into a synchronized situation in the wild is not so simple. It can be done but we are talking about very skilled audio techniques to get the right depth and range. If you know about audio then you know that recording int he outdoors takes a level of skill, beyond a simple video cam mic or even a dual mic setup. Based on what I see of the property owner's technical skills in all regards, he and his family are pretty unsophisticated folks. I don't see or hear the polish of a professional studio touch and I do not hear anything that betrays a poor editing job either. I think the audio and video feeds are pretty natural sounding to the environment. In my estimation, after studying the vids while they were posted, there is a strong likelihood the vocalizations are authentic (like it or not and I presume many will not). You're making a lot of assumptions here. There is no evidence that this was ever "in the wild" or just in someone's back yard. There is no evidence that these 'property owners' actually owned the property, or if Mike himself owns the property, or that said 'property owners' are really just Mike's friends. There is no strong likelihood of anything being real other than a simple opinion. There is also no specific criteria for being a hoaxer, only red flags. If you look at Tom Biscardi's history of hoaxing you'll see it's been going on for nearly 50 years, and was always more about recognition than anything else. The amount of effort involved means nothing. If you compare the limelight seeking hoaxers like Todd Standing and Dyer, there was always money involved. They also hid things and avoided answering the tough questions. The only thing Mike kept secret was the location because it was not his property. When things were moving along well for Mike at the site, there was no mention of money for the research. If that is a hoaxer in action then it is a remarkably patient operation. Actually he did have plans of making money off of it over the years. Here are some of his quotes that were saved: Sasquatch Ontario 2 months ago My plan is to write my story and release a book in the future. We'll still be documenting for awhile before that happens though. There's a lot to this story that's not being told. Sasquatch Ontario 1 month ago We do plan on selling some cast copies to help fund this research. Won't be selling any originals though. Those are difficult to come by. Sasquatch Ontario 2 days ago We're still sifting through audio. We won't release everything but will likely put a cd together in the future at some point. Now he's asking for $50k. That sounds like money being involved to me. The "eye" photo is not a fish nor was the claim ever made that was a photo of BF's eye. If you have followed the sequence of videos, the camera was left outside to see if the BF would do anything with it. It was not set up as a trail cam (that trick always fails). One of the BFs showed curiosity with handling it so they left it for him/her use it overnight . The result was some curious shots, all with interesting light patterns - except the eye shot. The eye is likely of an owl. I also interpret that photo to be a gesture by the BF to show that he/she is capable of properly using the camera. It is a clue they are fully aware of how to do something like that. The rest of the photos are very curious. See attached. They show up in sequential order on one of the videos. The last one that looks like cloud or mist almost looks like a BF face. I took a screen cap of that part of the video. If this was a hoax then it is very clever. There were actually several 'eye' photos and one of them was definitely a fish. SO did make the statement that they were of Bigfoot eyes, but he has since deleted those videos along with all the comments he made. Some of his comments were saved though: "Sasquatch Ontario15 minutes ago "With the first pics taken on previous visits, I thought the white or light colored hair was blown out by the flash. I'm starting to think we have a light haired blue eyed individual. Incredible to think that one of them has eyes that color." http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/39285-sasquatch-ontario-a-closer-look/page-66#entry760827 Edited July 14, 2015 by roguefooter
LeafTalker Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 No worries, Diana, and now that you mention it, yes, I have felt the Wall of Cold you refer to. And I agree, we have many ways of knowing things, beyond the classic five senses -- although I had no idea we had 16 (?) more of the ones we consider physical senses. And I never thought about this before, but it's interesting we call them "physical" senses. It shows we understand there is something "non-physical" to "sense", and that we understand ourselves to have the equipment to sense the non-physical WITH. Funny how language is, leaving nice clues like that one.....
Bodhi Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 I know this is a big leap, being brand new to this forum and posting in such an emotionally hot thread as Sasquatch Ontario. I wanted to add a few notes that I do not see covered. First, I am not an apologist for MikeP. I find Mike's work to be intriguing and bit difficult to explain away as a sequence of hoaxes. An objective view shows the experiences at that site are not common elsewhere for the simple reason most other field researchers have absolutely no idea how to confront BF on his/her terms. Many researchers do not establish a personal relationship with a BF. It seems so outlandish to so many people that the reaction was that it must be a hoax. To my knowledge that level of closeness has never been captured on tape prior to Mike . The main achievement I see with MikeP is he progressively learned how to gain their trust to the point of actual communication. If this was a hoax then why would it take 3 years to get anywhere with them? Hoaxers move much quicker and use much more straightforward tactics. I see a lot of ad hoc interaction and other areas that make it hard to fake. If it was fake then that is an awful lot of time spent at the editing board for little gain. You can recreate sounds in a controlled setting (as one forum member has done very well) but mixing that down into a synchronized situation in the wild is not so simple. It can be done but we are talking about very skilled audio techniques to get the right depth and range. If you know about audio then you know that recording int he outdoors takes a level of skill, beyond a simple video cam mic or even a dual mic setup. Based on what I see of the property owner's technical skills in all regards, he and his family are pretty unsophisticated folks. I don't see or hear the polish of a professional studio touch and I do not hear anything that betrays a poor editing job either. I think the audio and video feeds are pretty natural sounding to the environment. In my estimation, after studying the vids while they were posted, there is a strong likelihood the vocalizations are authentic (like it or not and I presume many will not). If you compare the limelight seeking hoaxers like Todd Standing and Dyer, there was always money involved. They also hid things and avoided answering the tough questions. The only thing Mike kept secret was the location because it was not his property. When things were moving along well for Mike at the site, there was no mention of money for the research. If that is a hoaxer in action then it is a remarkably patient operation. That said, I think Mike ultimately let his emotions get the better of him and he mishandled his own PR. It was all downhill for him with his squabbling online. His credibility is pretty much shot now. He also is apparently at fault for abandoning the site. He was not dismissed (according to the property owner's latest videos). He made the decision to leave. There is a mention of Sonya in the latest SO video. Mike was alleged to have taken off with Sonya who once worked with Todd Standing. If so, that is Sonya Zohar who is a species medium of some variety. So this would mean there was no Mike girlfriend on the property. The copyright claims were made by the girlfriend of the property owner or his son. I am not sure if this is made clear in this thread. If Mike took off for a woman then it would not be the first time Internet "love" went that way. One last point of clarification to add to the conversation: The "eye" photo is not a fish nor was the claim ever made that was a photo of BF's eye. If you have followed the sequence of videos, the camera was left outside to see if the BF would do anything with it. It was not set up as a trail cam (that trick always fails). One of the BFs showed curiosity with handling it so they left it for him/her use it overnight . The result was some curious shots, all with interesting light patterns - except the eye shot. The eye is likely of an owl. I also interpret that photo to be a gesture by the BF to show that he/she is capable of properly using the camera. It is a clue they are fully aware of how to do something like that. The rest of the photos are very curious. See attached. They show up in sequential order on one of the videos. The last one that looks like cloud or mist almost looks like a BF face. I took a screen cap of that part of the video. If this was a hoax then it is very clever. I am not sure where all of this will go next but I do not support Mike's antagonistic stance towards the property owner. Now there is very little chance of closing some interesting plot lines. love your avatar. Mindtaking??
Guest Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) Great post, Wingman. I agree with 99% of it. I would add, though, that Mike made it clear it was his decision to leave. He said on his YouTube channel that he had announced to the property owner that he intended to start researching at another location, and that that announcement caused upset. He never said he was dismissed. I do agree that he mishandled his own PR. I think he is quicker to anger than we might like our 'explorers' to be (although he has acknowledged this publicly and is never given credit for that, nor is he given credit for expressing that he recognizes a need for change, and for the steps he's taken toward making such changes). This quickness to anger, however, is an issue very separate from credibility. Many people who have ongoing interactions with BF have experienced many of the same things Mike has -- and more! -- and therefore see no reason to question the authenticity of his recordings or any of his other findings. It would be nice if we could learn to separate a researcher's/experiencer's/enthusiast's personality from the substance of his or her work. The two are not related. And I totally agree about the photos and what they tell us. I agree that a BF is fully capable of using a camera and did so, in this case. There is no hoaxing going on here, I agree. It's great that your experience with audio -- and your balanced, thoughtful approach to the entire subject -- lead you to that conclusion. I would also say that the chances for more information coming out of all this might be greater than you think. BF don't seem to have difficulty communicating over vast distances. If we don't hear anything more about this relationship in the future, it may be because Mike has decided not to share any of his post-cottage-era adventures, and not because there were no adventures to share. Thanks for your great post, and your bravery in making it. So very astute of you to pick up on that Leaftalker, I for one believe this one area rarely spoken of and yet, it’s one of the common threads central to many incident reports and encounters and nobody has ever touched it. Well done! “This quickness to anger, however, is an issue very separate from credibility. Many people who have ongoing interactions with BF have experienced many of the same things Mike has -- and more! -- and therefore see no reason to question the authenticity of his recordings or any of his other findings.†Thank you Mike, and welcome to the forum! Stay Vigilant, Ask Questions and Trust Your Instincts ... it never lies and will never betray you. Edited July 14, 2015 by Gumshoeye
Guest Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 love your avatar. Mindtaking?? I am not sure where I found it but Mindtalking fits. You're making a lot of assumptions here. There is no evidence that this was ever "in the wild" or just in someone's back yard. There is no evidence that these 'property owners' actually owned the property, or if Mike himself owns the property, or that said 'property owners' are really just Mike's friends. There is no strong likelihood of anything being real other than a simple opinion. There is also no specific criteria for being a hoaxer, only red flags. If you look at Tom Biscardi's history of hoaxing you'll see it's been going on for nearly 50 years, and was always more about recognition than anything else. The amount of effort involved means nothing. Actually he did have plans of making money off of it over the years. Here are some of his quotes that were saved: Sasquatch Ontario 2 months ago My plan is to write my story and release a book in the future. We'll still be documenting for awhile before that happens though. There's a lot to this story that's not being told. Sasquatch Ontario 1 month ago We do plan on selling some cast copies to help fund this research. Won't be selling any originals though. Those are difficult to come by. Sasquatch Ontario 2 days ago We're still sifting through audio. We won't release everything but will likely put a cd together in the future at some point. Now he's asking for $50k. That sounds like money being involved to me. There were actually several 'eye' photos and one of them was definitely a fish. SO did make the statement that they were of Bigfoot eyes, but he has since deleted those videos along with all the comments he made. Some of his comments were saved though: "Sasquatch Ontario15 minutes ago "With the first pics taken on previous visits, I thought the white or light colored hair was blown out by the flash. I'm starting to think we have a light haired blue eyed individual. Incredible to think that one of them has eyes that color." http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/39285-sasquatch-ontario-a-closer-look/page-66#entry760827 I was not aware of such an obvious fish eye photo. The one I had assumed was the eye in question was an owl (and of course I uploaded the wrong photo set to this thread, doh!). Since I do not recall the video where the fish eye was claimed to be BF I can not make a reasonable analysis. If true, it is ridiculous claim. It is a shame these videos are no longer accessible for reference (as far as I know). The whole operation and the tightly controlled habituation or staging area area seems project managed by the "property owner." The SO videos that are up now indicate it is actually an extended family living there. I kept hearing "cottage" in Mike's videos so I was thinking it is a shack but it seems apparent the land is a decent sized spread. They are definitely guarding their privacy and why not, who wants bigfoot interlopers from all over the world coming around. It is true we can't verify exact location but as I mentioned earlier, it is a lot of trouble to go through to go on at length with the hoax and for it to not to become a spectacle. Tom Biscardi is more "sophisticated." He is active and dedicated and raises money. He is a goose chaser and needs to keep things interesting so he lies as many of those types do I just don't see that level of "sophisticated professional BF researcher" in the SO operation from Mike or any of people living on that land. Also, the dopes on the reality shows could never pull off their escapades on their own. There is a production team writing the script as they go and finding nothing after nothing. The cast has managed to make a decent living being hobos of the forest. I live in an area with a few of the hobos' long time friends and I attend the regular BF meetups and meetings. You should hear the reality show friends' longing to be part of the cast and on the payroll. They know Bobo and Clint lucked out to make a living that way. What I saw was Mike recognizing there was no way to push his BF friends into more and more. They provided small clues at their leisure. Suggesting he wanted to write a book doesn't show that big a BF entrepreneurial spirit. It is totally normal to want to write a book abut your experiences. I would actually be a bit surprised if he returned to BF research strong, with a polished web site and good videos. I would be seriously surprised if he did that and it held up. More speculation on my part, I don't get the sense Mike is a stable career kind of guy and even knows anything about business at a baseline level. He may have tried a few rudimentary tactics to fund the research but he is clearly not good at it. I doubt he has the ability to get better at it. Who is going to buy CDs? No one and a book would fetch peanuts. Maybe enough for he and his new girlfriend to maintain a life on the road at Motel6s.
Sunflower Posted July 16, 2015 Posted July 16, 2015 Reading some of the comments here it's clear why BF is a breeding ground for so many hoaxers. SO's 'evidence' is possibly the flimsiest and frankly laughable I've come across. But still the hard-core hab set not only think it is viable, but will defend it vigorously. 'Fringe' subjects attract all sorts of strange people. It goes with the territory. Indeed everytime I attend a BF or UFO conference I need to fight the urge to flee when I first arrive! Being open minded is great. Being intensely gullible is much less so. Habsters - try thinking for yourself. This 'hive-mind' you guys seem to have isn't healthy. Believers can and should be as much of a 'Critical Thinker' as your common garden variety skeptic. Let's clean BF up. Actually I could care less what you call us or me and so I forgive you for being uncouth. Some of the nicest people I know are "habsters."
Guest Trooper1410 Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) There is a new youtube video on the Sasquatch Ontario youtube site. Trip to California. Edited October 20, 2015 by Trooper1410 Removed reference to deleted post
LeafTalker Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 Saw your post, Old Dog. Thank you so much for that. And thank you, moderators, for dealing with that so swiftly.
SomeCreepinaVan Posted November 8, 2015 Posted November 8, 2015 The eye photos were weird, but I still believe him. I'm into audio/speakers and the voices sound authentic to me. 1
Lake County Bigfooot Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) Hearing Mike originally on the Bigfoot tonight show, God Bless the departed host, I thought this guy sounds authentic, I did not sense the usual pretense of a swindler. That being said, I also followed his research for several years, the recordings were all that ever impressed me. The conclusions made about some aspects of their capabilities and magical powers are not my real concern. I do think the recordings are probably legit and that is all that matters. I certainly would like someone like David Ellis to chime in on the recordings, let us know if they meet the criteria he has laid out. I have done a good amount of recording, both musically and wildlife and I cannot find fabrication. The only other possibilities are a very gifted human, or a unidentified source. Though I know of capabilities that would fabricate the vocal ranges, it still would be noticeable to the listener that it had been manipulated. These are seemingly very legitimate, despite the marbles. Edited November 9, 2015 by Lake County Bigfooot
Redbone Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 This animation is from the "Into the Void" video linked above by Trooper1410. Stabilizing this dark spot didn't help much and some resolution was lost converting to the animation. I am somewhat convinced it is just a shadowy area of foliage slightly behind the tree. I think the perceived movement is caused by plants going in front of the dark spot as the car races by. When you zoom in there is no real detail to bring out. It's just a dark area. Certainly not enough evidence for me to proclaim it's animal of any sort. He also found some old but interesting tracks in the video. (Click to animate)
roguefooter Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 Hoaxing is so rampant in this field because the people continue giving them the benefit of the doubt, regardless that they've committed obvious hoaxes. It's like a never ending circle of being fooled, but it almost seems like people want it that way. 2
MIB Posted November 11, 2015 Moderator Posted November 11, 2015 "So rampant"? That's grossly overstating things. There are hoaxes. Individual hoaxes are quite .. dramatic, I guess you could say. However, less than 1% of the published reports are PROVEN, DOCUMENTED hoaxes. MIB
dmaker Posted November 11, 2015 Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) And 0% of the reports are PROVEN, DOCUMENTED bigfoots. The ratio of proven hoaxes to proven bigfoots, does not favor the bigfoots. Edited November 11, 2015 by dmaker 1
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