A Few Words Concerning Bigfoot At The Half Century Mark

[Bodhi]

 Yea! Ok I can see where it can be alarm for thinking minds to believe bigfoot reports  that have happen in the past. But like I have said before, "belief comes first when one see's one of these creatures with their own eye's". This statement holds true in any belief system and you cannot deny what one has seen.

 

This has started out with all animals including apes and gorrillas when they were just discovered back in the 1900's. Not sure where I am going with this , but would just like to say that " not all bigfoot history is shoddy ". The reason that they may not be discovered could be is that their population may not be as big as everyone believes, or they may have gone deeper into the wilderness to escape the expansion of human population. If I had to guess I would guess that their population is getting smaller. Nature is killing off the population, or maybe this sounds better nature has selected this species for die off.  

I could go along with a die-off scenario but people continue to believe they've seen a sasquatch along roads, near homes and the range continues to be reported to be all of North America. Seems difficult to agree to the idea of the purported animal going deeper into the wilderness or dying off while these claims continue.

 

Clearly, some people are mistaken but to declare claimed sightings near roads/ human habitation to be false simply because they are near human habitations would be arbitrary(not that you are doing so but to stave of that claim).

I believe it is more correct think of sasquatch as a cultural phenomenon, looked at from that "angle" the uniquely large size of range, habitat, behavior, diet and size make much more sense. Agree?

[salubrious]

Good point Beerhunter - After 20 something days, a thousand plus LEOs and a half dozen helicopters and countless numbers you didn’t hear about both here in the U.S. and Canada, using the best and latest technology couldn't find 2 guys in upstate NY until recently.

 

 

And they weren't trained in primitive survival and camouflage. BF lives that and has natural camo.

 

 

This strikes me a simply denialist. This is just a sad, sad example of special pleading.

 

As noted earlier, it took less time to verify the gorilla and that was on a much more difficult continent and an animal with a much smaller reported range and at a time when such endeavors were much more difficult to undertake.

 

The gorilla was not particularly trying to avoid humans. It does seem as if BF does- nearly all the sightings involve it leaving. Even so our knowledge of gorillas only goes back 100 years. Sturmey Archer had already built the first 3-speed bicycle hubs by then. 50 years really is a drop in the bucket of history.

 

 

 

It doesn't matter?  Oh come on we're not talking about paleontology here where geophysical forces are at work.  We're talking about hunting, that's right hunting as if hunting for hogs, Chimps, Deer etc.  If I were to say bigfoott exists (I'm not BTW) I'd say it has to be smarter than the people hunting for it.  That said I wonder where the bigfoot space program is these days?  The stupid human space program has a probe out by Pluto.

A willingness to believe in anything as shoddy as bigfoot history is pause for alarm for thinking minds.

BF might simply have a different outlook and wants nothing to do with our way of life. Just because BF has no space program does not make them stupid... to start with they have no need for fire- why bother to develop technology??

 

What we do know for sure is we simply don't know.

 

The way you seem to be parsing this out, its as if you know what is inside BF's head already. That's quite a leap for a skeptic! The simple fact is we don't know what they think. And I don't think we will be finding out anytime soon. Even if we get one live in captivity, its not likely we will find out much about them in the wild as they will continue to be nearly impossible to find (...and about that: you don't find BF, BF finds you).

 

BTW: Hunting? Most people make so much noise in the forest its amazing that they see anything other than squirrels and birds. Unless a human is really trained to be quiet, they aren't. As a result most animals stay out of sight. Add two things, intelligence and a desire to avoid humans in particular and there really isn't a mystery here. Just a theory of course but I think one that makes better sense than the one you seem to propose about how BF would be just like us if they have intelligence.

[WSA]

Bodhi...the source of your turbidity is really of no concern of mine, except when you show up to peddle skeptic dross, as you and some others continue to do, but...

 

Your primary omission is a failure to realize the burden of proof tipped to your side of the ledger a long, long time ago. Baseline scientific practices says so, and you should own it. Continuing to show up here and merely state over and over, "Nuh-uuuh!" should be an embarrassment to you, but apparently it is not. Your inability to modulate your own unfortunate habits and tendencies is of no direct concern to me except as a windsock to point out how bereft of sense and education the average skeptic poster is. Why you persist, is unknowable, I'm convinced. How it can be corrected has been stated plainly to you and others in myriad forms.  You continue to hear your head roar, and that is about all you can really conclude about it. I've had more productive conversations with terriers, who at least appreciate when I insist it is them that have to find the stick, not me.

Edited July 2, 2015 by chelefoot

[roguefooter]

 Any other hunter knows that too. Because if you were, you'd know that every hunter knows how to hunt the quarry due to thousands of years of cumulative knowledge, parental instruction and a virtual encyclopedia of procedures about how to make that kill.  There are entire industries dedicated to particular game animals in this world, dedicated to only one thing: How to get that critter in your sights to make a kill shot.  You got a F&S issue on "Hunting BF" you can give me?  And even if you don't hunt, before you show up on a forum and give opinions about hunting you should educate yourself better.

 

 

If Bigfoot had existed millions of years alongside man, then why is there zero cumulative knowledge pertaining to Bigfoot?

 

You yourself are stating that it exists for all known animals, we even have cumulative knowledge on how to kill other humans. So why is Bigfoot left out of the equation?

[Bodhi]

Bodhi...the source of your turbidity is really of no concern of mine, except when you show up to peddle skraptic dross, as you and some others continue to do, but...

 

Your primary omission is a failure to realize the burden of proof tipped to your side of the ledger a long, long time ago. Baseline scientific practices says so, and you should own it. Continuing to show up here and merely state over and over, "Nuh-uuuh!" should be an embarrassment to you, but apparently it is not. Your inability to modulate your own unfortunate habits and tendencies is of no direct concern to me except as a wind sox to point out how bereft of sense and education the average skraptic poster is. Why you persist, is unknowable, I'm convinced. How it can be corrected has been stated plainly to you and others in myriad forms.  You continue to hear your head roar, and that is about all you can really conclude about it. I've had more productive conversations with terriers, who at least appreciate when I insist it is them that have to find the stick, not me.

Does science know that you've unilaterally decided that it is incumbent upon them to prove this undiscovered animal that it does not believe is real? Does this apply to all cryptids or just sasquatch?

 

Should I alert them to start searching for "nessie", and "thunderbirds" immediately or do you wish to do so yourself?

[roguefooter]

BF might simply have a different outlook and wants nothing to do with our way of life. Just because BF has no space program does not make them stupid... to start with they have no need for fire- why bother to develop technology??

 

 

We discovered that fire kills harmful bacteria in food and water that could easily kill us. The same bacteria and disease that kills millions of animals every year. If they were an advanced species then why would they have no need for fire?

 

Technology is also important for survival. Disease has wiped out populations of animals, just like it wiped out populations of humans. Many species eventually can't keep up and die out, but technology has allowed us to maintain ourselves and also many species of animals through disease control.

Edited July 1, 2015 by roguefooter

[ShadowBorn]

 

The beast is not on a slab in a lab.

 

 You can believe this or you can leave this to thought, the truth is out there. Ha Ha He He I would like to think that the boogers were a bit smarter then our Gov. But then again who holds all the rewop inverse !

[Guest]

And they weren't trained in primitive survival and camouflage. BF lives that and has natural camo.

 

 

 

The gorilla was not particularly trying to avoid humans. It does seem as if BF does- nearly all the sightings involve it leaving. Even so our knowledge of gorillas only goes back 100 years. Sturmey Archer had already built the first 3-speed bicycle hubs by then. 50 years really is a drop in the bucket of history.

 

 

 

BF might simply have a different outlook and wants nothing to do with our way of life. Just because BF has no space program does not make them stupid... to start with they have no need for fire- why bother to develop technology??

 

What we do know for sure is we simply don't know.

 

The way you seem to be parsing this out, its as if you know what is inside BF's head already. That's quite a leap for a skeptic! The simple fact is we don't know what they think. And I don't think we will be finding out anytime soon. Even if we get one live in captivity, its not likely we will find out much about them in the wild as they will continue to be nearly impossible to find (...and about that: you don't find BF, BF finds you).

 

BTW: Hunting? Most people make so much noise in the forest its amazing that they see anything other than squirrels and birds. Unless a human is really trained to be quiet, they aren't. As a result most animals stay out of sight. Add two things, intelligence and a desire to avoid humans in particular and there really isn't a mystery here. Just a theory of course but I think one that makes better sense than the one you seem to propose about how BF would be just like us if they have intelligence.

 

Good point Sal - I am not certain of their respective background but the pair of convicted felons holding degrees from the University of Clinton Correctional Facility plied their skills in escape, evasion and survival techniques without camouflage and sophisticated technology and were able remain at large for 23 days. This amazing feat of escape and evasion albeit 23 days demonstrates how difficult it is to search and find something  or somebody unwilling to be caught without the benefit of a century or more of parental guidance skills and knowledge passed down to them.   

 

 

[Bodhi]

Good point Sal - I am not certain of their respective background but the pair of convicted felons holding degrees from the University of Clinton Correctional Facility plied their skills in escape, evasion and survival techniques without camouflage and sophisticated technology and were able remain at large for 23 days. This amazing feat of escape and evasion albeit 23 days demonstrates how difficult it is to search and find something  or somebody unwilling to be caught without the benefit of a century or more of parental guidance skills and knowledge passed down to them.   

 

 

I tend to think the analogy of the escaped convicts is a bit off. Finding two particular people feels considerably more difficult than finding any of a species which purportedly lives in every state and in all of canada. I feel the escapees were more akin to finding two particular needles in a needle stack vs. finding a sasquatch in a needle stack. And lest we forget, they were found and relatively quickly, certainly quicker than 50 years. So maybe a bit of caution before beating that drum too loudly.

[Guest Crowlogic]

And they weren't trained in primitive survival and camouflage. BF lives that and has natural camo.

 

 

 

The gorilla was not particularly trying to avoid humans. It does seem as if BF does- nearly all the sightings involve it leaving. Even so our knowledge of gorillas only goes back 100 years. Sturmey Archer had already built the first 3-speed bicycle hubs by then. 50 years really is a drop in the bucket of history.

 

 

 

BF might simply have a different outlook and wants nothing to do with our way of life. Just because BF has no space program does not make them stupid... to start with they have no need for fire- why bother to develop technology??

 

What we do know for sure is we simply don't know.

 

The way you seem to be parsing this out, its as if you know what is inside BF's head already. That's quite a leap for a skeptic! The simple fact is we don't know what they think. And I don't think we will be finding out anytime soon. Even if we get one live in captivity, its not likely we will find out much about them in the wild as they will continue to be nearly impossible to find (...and about that: you don't find BF, BF finds you).

 

BTW: Hunting? Most people make so much noise in the forest its amazing that they see anything other than squirrels and birds. Unless a human is really trained to be quiet, they aren't. As a result most animals stay out of sight. Add two things, intelligence and a desire to avoid humans in particular and there really isn't a mystery here. Just a theory of course but I think one that makes better sense than the one you seem to propose about how BF would be just like us if they have intelligence.

The model for Planet Earth is a pretty good model to base things on.  On Planet Earth higher intelligence results in technology.  Bigfoot reportage has shown itself to be a more of a brute than a thinker.  

[Bodhi]

 

 

 

 

The gorilla was not particularly trying to avoid humans. It does seem as if BF does- nearly all the sightings involve it leaving. Even so our knowledge of gorillas only goes back 100 years. Sturmey Archer had already built the first 3-speed bicycle hubs by then. 50 years really is a drop in the bucket of history.

My understanding is that the tribes people living near the gorilla range did hunt them, so how do you figure that gorillas weren't trying to avoid humans? Is this just your sense of the matter or do you have some source which you are quoting for this claim?

Edited July 1, 2015 by Bodhi

[Guest DWA]

And they weren't trained in primitive survival and camouflage. BF lives that and has natural camo.

 

Not only that, but what training?  Most people being searched for want(ed) to be found, and basically got thrown where they were in a big mess...many of which we *never* find.  Those escapees essentially had *nothing*, had a nation looking for them...and look how long it took.

 

 

The gorilla was not particularly trying to avoid humans. It does seem as if BF does- nearly all the sightings involve it leaving. Even so our knowledge of gorillas only goes back 100 years. Sturmey Archer had already built the first 3-speed bicycle hubs by then. 50 years really is a drop in the bucket of history.

 

Well, actually, most gorilla sightings involve the animal leaving too.  (Remember, habituated critters don't count; those are the ones the tourons see.  The *researchers* hardly see the truly wild ones.)  We've learned about 90% of what we know about apes in the last 50 years...and that is a significant minority of the time we've known about them.  One thing b-skeps don't understand about science - something they don't understand pretty much at all, except to wave it like incense - is how little of it had been done before, say, the Wright Brothers.  And how very much of it still remains to be done on animals we have known for centuries.

 

BF might simply have a different outlook and wants nothing to do with our way of life. Just because BF has no space program does not make them stupid... to start with they have no need for fire- why bother to develop technology??

 

Our technology is the fangs of Smilodon, the antlers of the Irish elk, the teeth of Tyrannosaurus rex.  It's a tool; its application is limited; and it ensures nothing for us in the long term, particularly since we have to consume the planet to construct it.

 

What we do know for sure is we simply don't know.

 

A lot of scientists say this.  And then Conveniently Forget It when they are confronted with stuff that makes them uncomfortable.  B-skeps tend to blindly follow these people, whose hold on the label 'scientist' seems tenuous, at best.

 

The way you seem to be parsing this out, its as if you know what is inside BF's head already. That's quite a leap for a skeptic! The simple fact is we don't know what they think. And I don't think we will be finding out anytime soon. Even if we get one live in captivity, its not likely we will find out much about them in the wild as they will continue to be nearly impossible to find (...and about that: you don't find BF, BF finds you).

 

What is being described here is the case for most wild animals.  We kid ourselves that we know much more about them than, in fact, we do.  We are just getting over the magical notion that This Thing Called Instinct, which we never have understood what the heck that could be, drives animals to do what they do.  They think; they assess situations; they solve problems.  They have emotions.  We're just now getting to *that,* but we kid ourselves that because we know about the skull structure of platyrrhines, we're home free and can move on.

 

BTW: Hunting? Most people make so much noise in the forest its amazing that they see anything other than squirrels and birds. Unless a human is really trained to be quiet, they aren't. As a result most animals stay out of sight. Add two things, intelligence and a desire to avoid humans in particular and there really isn't a mystery here. Just a theory of course but I think one that makes better sense than the one you seem to propose about how BF would be just like us if they have intelligence.

 

I'd think that anything gifted with our level of basic intelligence would just *look at us* and go, OK, that isn't working.  Let's try something else...

 

 

Bodhi...the source of your turbidity is really of no concern of mine, except when you show up to peddle skraptic dross, as you and some others continue to do, but...

 

Your primary omission is a failure to realize the burden of proof tipped to your side of the ledger a long, long time ago. Baseline scientific practices says so, and you should own it. Continuing to show up here and merely state over and over, "Nuh-uuuh!" should be an embarrassment to you, but apparently it is not. Your inability to modulate your own unfortunate habits and tendencies is of no direct concern to me except as a windsock to point out how bereft of sense and education the average skraptic poster is. Why you persist, is unknowable, I'm convinced. How it can be corrected has been stated plainly to you and others in myriad forms.  You continue to hear your head roar, and that is about all you can really conclude about it. I've had more productive conversations with terriers, who at least appreciate when I insist it is them that have to find the stick, not me.

Not sure how a person would be able to survive in the world two days with the attitude:  All I have to do is confine everything to the noise in my head, and suddenly I know it all!  English skills and a middle-school education, plus a good bit of practical experience of the world outside closed doors, would...well, there'd be no b-skep, were those simple things applied with any rigor to the evidence.  The time b-skeps spend Complaining They've Been Hurt and Saying How Dare You! and Going NUH-UH! Real Real Loud...they could spend getting up to speed.  Life choices, I guess; and it's easy, just with regard to this topic, now, to read who made the right ones.

My understanding is that the tribes people living near the gorilla range did hunt them, so how do you figure that gorillas weren't trying to avoid humans? Is this just your sense of the matter or do you have some source which you are quoting for this claim?

 

Other than the factual nature of what is being discussed here (which is irrelevant; any wild animal with experience of humans tends on balance to try to avoid them), I'm waiting for any sources for *anything* Bodhi is saying here...although I do recognize that Wrong Stuff doesn't tend to have authoritative sources.

Edited July 1, 2015 by DWA

[Guest DWA]

Why is fire a presumption for "advancement?"  Can you live outdoors all year, no matter the weather?  A wild animal can; doesn't pay taxes; doesn't pay for anything; doesn't need to feed servants; has no master...look, it may work for you, but could you live like a bear?

 

If your response is, look what's happened to them in conflict with us, well, a *truly* enlightened mind would add:  but it's affecting us too, and no less in fact.

We're destroying our own nest, just crapping in it.

[Guest]

I tend to think the analogy of the escaped convicts is a bit off. Finding two particular people feels considerably more difficult than finding any of a species which purportedly lives in every state and in all of canada. I feel the escapees were more akin to finding two particular needles in a needle stack vs. finding a sasquatch in a needle stack. And lest we forget, they were found and relatively quickly, certainly quicker than 50 years. So maybe a bit of caution before beating that drum too loudly.

 

When you say beating the drum do you mean like this?

 

Bigfoot Captured

April 1883

Booneville, Indiana

After a wild man or creature attacked a mail carrier and his horse near this city, a search party prowled the hills and hollows to a cave where tracks indicated the attacker was hiding. After smoking him out, they tied him up, but he ripped through the rope as if it were paper. As he fled, sharpshooters fired at him and swore they had hit him to no effect. The searchers were not sure if he was man or beast.

Source: Jerome Clark

 

Bigfoot Report Captured

1940

Nulato, Alaska

A Mrs. Notti now living in Anchorage saw large human-like tracks where what she had thought was a bear swimming across a slough.  That same year near the ghost town of Kaluka, Alaska, Emily Supanich’s mother was berry picking with others when “they came upon a large hairy creature that resembled a man covered with long black hair. They ran back to the village and told the people. The men went out, captured it and caged it. She said her mom fed it raw fish. After some time the hair began to fall out and it turned out to be a female with breasts. Not long after the hair stated falling out, the creature died.

Source: John Green

 

Hunters, Bigfoot Dead

1965

Tarrytown, Georgia

An eight foot creature that appeared “mangled†was spotted near this location. Which leads one to wonder what could mutilate an eight foot tall monster.

Source: Weird Georgia, Jim Miles/ Gordon Strasenburgh, p47

 

Motorist, Car Strike BF

December 2003

Ohio 9:00P

Angela and a friend had spent all day at the hospital where Angela’s daughter had undergone surgery after visiting hours the two women set off for home. After rounding the corner, the women noticed a dead cat lying on the shoulder of the road. In the next instant, a “giant, white creature†appeared in the front of their car. The car struck the creature, bouncing up and over its body. A terrible smell overwhelmed the women, sickening them so much that they fled the scene. Upon reaching the nearest gas station, the women made an astounding discovery –the journey had taken 90 minutes too long. The dumbfounded women were certain the animal they had struck was neither a cow nor human. Angela later found white hairs on the tailpipe of the car.

Source: Lisa A. Sheil 2007

Edited July 1, 2015 by Gumshoeye

[Guest DWA]

Never mind that once again we see a Bigfoot Skeptic Meme:  All People Looking For Bigfoot All the Time. When the truth is closer - much closer, in fact almost precisely - NOBODY Has Ever Looked For Bigfoot, Ever.

 

B-skeps tend not to understand how very very much work is involved in science, how many field discoveries - almost all of them in fact - are made by people most would label mad, devoting time and health and life, 24 hours a day, for decades, to learn what they pass on to us.  It is that very slim foundation on which practically all of scientific knowledge rests.

 

The b-skep thinks all of this has been accumulated by a highly sophisticated network of drones that has been continuously monitoring the planet for, oh, like five years now.