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A Few Words Concerning Bigfoot At The Half Century Mark

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The jist of this thread by the cynics and dismissers (I don't call them skeptics):

 

"Look, ya gotta listen to the scientists when it comes to bigfoot. Um, er, well except those scientists who come out in support of bigfoot after considering the evidence coz they are, y'know, obviously unhinged tin foil hat wearers who should grow up".

 

UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

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SWWASAS

Worse than that.   He just dismissed Meldrums personal assessment of a footprint anomaly in another thread he created related to the P/G film.   So he won't listen to someone that is a PHD specializing in bipedal locomotion about a footprint either.       So he picks and chooses the scientists he will accept opinions from.    Skeptical scientists he quotes and embraces.     Those that support the evidence and suggest existence is possible, he dishes or ignores all the while clamoring that science is ignoring the topic because it does not exist.    Not sure unbelievable even describes what is going on here.    I am more inclined to label it sad.      

Edited by SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT
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Bodhi

The jist of this thread by the cynics and dismissers (I don't call them skeptics):

 

"Look, ya gotta listen to the scientists when it comes to bigfoot. Um, er, well except those scientists who come out in support of bigfoot after considering the evidence coz they are, y'know, obviously unhinged tin foil hat wearers who should grow up".

 

UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

Thin argument. There will always be outliers on the bell curve. But if Meldrum et. al. come up with the goods and present their findings to their colleagues great. Campfire stories are nifty but they are not evidence.

 

Until the believers present incontrovertible proof for the claims of a breeding population of from 1 - 4 species of totally new (not in the fossil record) 8 to 20 foot tall "apes" which have red or orange glowing eyes and who can use infra sound and portals to stun and escape and love pancakes and maybe braid the hair of horses and maybe, possible can fly up to 1,000 ft in a single jump and which has a range which amounts to all of north america but have never left a single piece of scat nor a single hair - deep breath - Yeah, cowboy.... Amazingly enough, MOST scientists, biologists, zoologists, etc. are unconvinced as of yet.

 

As Dr. Disotell says: show me the evidence. It's a simple thing. If you have a extraordinary claim you better bring some evidence to the party, otherwise you are likely.....unhinged.

Worse than that.   He just dismissed Meldrums personal assessment of a footprint anomaly in another thread related to the P/G film.   So he won't listen to someone that is a PHD specializing in bipedal locomotion about a footprint either.       So he picks and chooses the scientists he will accept opinions from.    Skeptical scientists he quotes and embraces.     Those that support the evidence and suggest existence is possible, he dishes or ignores all the while clamoring that science is ignoring the topic because it does not exist.    Not sure unbelievable even describes what is going on here.    I am more inclined to label it sad.      

Meldrum, who believes in Standings muppets? And backed the Falcon Project and a couple other shady things which don't come to mind?

 

Has he presented a paper to any well regarded journals? I could look it up on google but since you brought him up you can do the looking.

Edited by Bodhi

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Guest Crowlogic

there is different levels of evidence and then there is proof.

i think finding proof is very important, but you trying to debunk the skookum cast with a Bigfoot report from 2000 miles away is weak sauce. Simply because the report involves fruit and how the supposed fruit was gathered by the creature is inconsistent? Really?

Do you think a black bear in the carolinas acts the same as a bear in alaska? Eats the same foods? What about a yellowstone grizzly and a coastal brown bear?

Its these quick generalizations and dismissals of evidence thats frustrating.

Its gonna take a body to convince you and Im OK with that. I dont think that is too much to ask.

But as Ive said all along its not a rabbit outta the hat trick. its gonna take hard work and dedication to make that happen. Which means for us proponents we have to somehow look at the evidence at hand and apply it in a real tangible way. All the shouting in the world is not going to make the myth pop into reality, but its not going to make it go away either.

The quagmire of bigfoot proof is, according to many (most scientists and most lay people), vague and hardly above curious evidence.  That perspective is well worth maintaining.  Skookum BTW is perhaps the biggest and heaviest, 400 pounds of heavy, example of pareidollia  ever in bigfootism.

 

 

As Dr. Disotell says: show me the evidence. It's a simple thing. If you have a extraordinary claim you better bring some evidence to the party, otherwise you are likely.....unhinged.

 

Except in  cryptozooligy.

Edited by Crowlogic

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Rockape

<Until the believers present incontrovertible proof for the claims of a breeding population of from 1 - 4 species of totally new (not in the fossil record) 8 to 20 foot tall "apes" which have red or orange glowing eyes and who can use infra sound and portals to stun and escape and love pancakes and maybe braid the hair of horses and maybe, possible can fly up to 1,000 ft in a single jump and which has a range which amounts to all of north america but have never left a single piece of scat nor a single hair - deep breath - Yeah, cowboy.... >

 

I'm not a "believer", I'm a skeptic and will be unless I see one myself or some solid proof is found, but that post is something that is a pet peeve of mine. Non believers grab all the crazy ideas that have been reported and assign them to everyone who does believe. An ex-member here Cervelo used to say 90 percent of the evidence is crap, and with that I agree, but there is some that is compelling and that is what needs to be focused on, not the crazy stuff. I suppose the 90 percent that is crap is easier to dismiss than the 10 percent that is viable though.

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Guest Crowlogic

<Until the believers present incontrovertible proof for the claims of a breeding population of from 1 - 4 species of totally new (not in the fossil record) 8 to 20 foot tall "apes" which have red or orange glowing eyes and who can use infra sound and portals to stun and escape and love pancakes and maybe braid the hair of horses and maybe, possible can fly up to 1,000 ft in a single jump and which has a range which amounts to all of north america but have never left a single piece of scat nor a single hair - deep breath - Yeah, cowboy.... >

 

I'm not a "believer", I'm a skeptic and will be unless I see one myself or some solid proof is found, but that post is something that is a pet peeve of mine. Non believers grab all the crazy ideas that have been reported and assign them to everyone who does believe. An ex-member here Cervelo used to say 90 percent of the evidence is crap, and with that I agree, but there is some that is compelling and that is what needs to be focused on, not the crazy stuff. I suppose the 90 percent that is crap is easier to dismiss than the 10 percent that is viable though.

If there was a 10% excellent evidence rate things would be very very different.  But there is at best 2% good evidence and 100% failure in proof.  I'd subscribe yet to the idea of bigfoot if there was a 10% viable evidence.

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Guest diana swampbooger

It's not a stretch to think that Neanderthal walked the Atlantic ice bridge the same as the Solutrean culture. Nor to think Neanderthal walked the Beringia. Nor to think Neanderthal mated with Modern humans.

 

When our little 'can't think out side of the box' scientists get up to speed, so will the lay people...eventually, Crow.

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SWWASAS

Thin argument. There will always be outliers on the bell curve. But if Meldrum et. al. come up with the goods and present their findings to their colleagues great. Campfire stories are nifty but they are not evidence.

 

Until the believers present incontrovertible proof for the claims of a breeding population of from 1 - 4 species of totally new (not in the fossil record) 8 to 20 foot tall "apes" which have red or orange glowing eyes and who can use infra sound and portals to stun and escape and love pancakes and maybe braid the hair of horses and maybe, possible can fly up to 1,000 ft in a single jump and which has a range which amounts to all of north america but have never left a single piece of scat nor a single hair - deep breath - Yeah, cowboy.... Amazingly enough, MOST scientists, biologists, zoologists, etc. are unconvinced as of yet.

 

As Dr. Disotell says: show me the evidence. It's a simple thing. If you have a extraordinary claim you better bring some evidence to the party, otherwise you are likely.....unhinged.

Meldrum, who believes in Standings muppets? And backed the Falcon Project and a couple other shady things which don't come to mind?

 

Has he presented a paper to any well regarded journals? I could look it up on google but since you brought him up you can do the looking.

Meldrum lists his name and credentials.    Let's hear yours.  For me to accept any criticism of Meldrums assessment, of a footprint,  you better have a PHD in Anatomy or Anthropology.    If you do not, why would anyone listen to you?          Now you go to character assassination by listing Standing, the Falcon project which was a good project managed by poor managers,   and a couple of other shady things you cannot remember but say anyway.  Why be specific when you can just sling mud?      Is character assassination all you can come up with?     You know how juvenile that makes you look?   

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Rockape

If there was a 10% excellent evidence rate things would be very very different.  But there is at best 2% good evidence and 100% failure in proof.  I'd subscribe yet to the idea of bigfoot if there was a 10% viable evidence.

I didn't say the 10% was great, just not total crap.

It's not a stretch to think that Neanderthal walked the Atlantic ice bridge the same as the Solutrean culture. Nor to think Neanderthal walked the Beringia. Nor to think Neanderthal mated with Modern humans.

 

When our little 'can't think out side of the box' scientists get up to speed, so will the lay people...eventually, Crow.

But science has complete Neanderthal skeletons and they do not match up to bigfoot. There is also evidence Neanderthal and Humans did interbreed, but it did not result in a hybrid that looks like BF. I believe if BF exists it is a relic hominid, but Neanderthal is a dead end concerning BF, in my opinion.

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SWWASAS

Thin argument. There will always be outliers on the bell curve. But if Meldrum et. al. come up with the goods and present their findings to their colleagues great. Campfire stories are nifty but they are not evidence.

 

Until the believers present incontrovertible proof for the claims of a breeding population of from 1 - 4 species of totally new (not in the fossil record) 8 to 20 foot tall "apes" which have red or orange glowing eyes and who can use infra sound and portals to stun and escape and love pancakes and maybe braid the hair of horses and maybe, possible can fly up to 1,000 ft in a single jump and which has a range which amounts to all of north america but have never left a single piece of scat nor a single hair - deep breath - Yeah, cowboy.... Amazingly enough, MOST scientists, biologists, zoologists, etc. are unconvinced as of yet.

 

As Dr. Disotell says: show me the evidence. It's a simple thing. If you have a extraordinary claim you better bring some evidence to the party, otherwise you are likely.....unhinged.

Meldrum, who believes in Standings muppets? And backed the Falcon Project and a couple other shady things which don't come to mind?

 

Has he presented a paper to any well regarded journals? I could look it up on google but since you brought him up you can do the looking.

Here is a list of his publications.

Meldrum DJ. 2012. Are other hominins (hominoids) alive today? The Relict Hominoid Inquiry 1:67-71.

Meldrum DJ. 2012, Adaptive radiations, bushy evolutionary trees, and relict hominoids, The Relict Hominoid Inquiry 1:51-56.

Meldrum DJ and Zhou Guoxing. 2012. Footprint evidence of the Chinese yeren. The Relict Hominoid Inquiry 1:57-66.

Youlatos D and Meldrum J. 2011. Locomotor diversification in New World Monkeys: Running, climbing, or clawing along evolutionary branches. The Anatomical Record 294:1991-2012.

Lu Z, Meldrum DJ, Huang Y, He J Sarmiento EE. 2011. Pedal skeleton of the Jinniushan hominin from the Middle Pleistocene of China. Homo 62:389-401.

Sarmiento E and Meldrum DJ. 2011. Behavioral and phylogenetic implications of a narrow allometric study of Ardipithecus ramidus, Homo 62:75-108.

Meldrum DJ, Lockley MG, Lucas SG and Musiba, CM. 2011. Ichnotaxonomy of the Laetoli Trackways: The earliest hominin footprints. J Afr Earth Sci 60:1-12.

Edited Volumes:

Kay RF, Meldrum DJ, and Takai M. 2012. Pitheciidae and other Platyrrhine Seed Predators: the Dual Occupation of the Seed Predator Niche during Platyrrhine Evolution. In: Ferrari SF, Barnett A, Veiga L, Evolutionary Biology and Conservation of Titis, Sakis, and Uacaris. Cambridge University Press (in press).

Meldrum, DJ and Stephens, TD. 2010. Who are the Children of Lehi? In: Josué Sánchez (ed.) Hacia una dialéctica del Mormonismo.

Meldrum DJ. 2007. Three-dimensional virtualization and archiving of hominid tracks. In: Kim JY and Kim K-S (eds) Proceedings of the 2007 International Symposium on the Conservation and Application of Hominid Footprints, Dec 7-9th, Jeju Island, Korea. pp. 42-55.

Meldrum, DJ. 2007. Fossilized Hawaiian footprints compared to Laetoli hominid footprints. In DJ Meldrum and CE Hilton (eds.), From Biped to Strider: The Emergence of Modern Human Walking, Running, and Resource Transport. pp. 63-84 , New York: Kluwer Academic and Plenum Publishing.

Hilton, CE and Meldrum, DJ. 2004. Walkers, Runners, Transporters. In DJ Meldrum and CE Hilton (eds.), From Biped to Strider: The Emergence of Modern Human Walking, Running, and Resource Transport. pp. 1-8, New York: Kluwer Academic and Plenum Publishing.

Meldrum, DJ and Hilton, CE (eds.), From Biped to Strider: The Emergence of Modern Human Walking, Running, and Resource Transport. New York: Kluwer Academic and Plenum Publishing, 2004.

Monographs:

Meldrum, DJ and Stephens, TD. Who Are the Children of Lehi? DNA and the Book of Mormon. Greg Kofford Books, 2007.

Meldrum, J. Sasquatch: Legend Meets Science. New York: Forge Books, 2006.

Stephens, TD, and Meldrum, DJ, with Petersen, FB. Evolution and Mormonism: A Quest for Understanding, Salt Lake City, Signature Press, 2001.

Textbooks:

Meldrum, DJ and Urfer, AG. Mosby's Dissector for the Rehabilitation Professional: Exploring Human Anatomy. St. Louis: Mosby/Elsevier, 2009(2010).

Now lets see a list of yours.

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norseman

The quagmire of bigfoot proof is, according to many (most scientists and most lay people), vague and hardly above curious evidence.  That perspective is well worth maintaining.  Skookum BTW is perhaps the biggest and heaviest, 400 pounds of heavy, example of pareidollia  ever in bigfootism.

Except in  cryptozooligy.

Who cares what most think? Are they buying my grub and gas?

I've never been one to go along with the crowd because its the popular thing to do.

I base my life and beliefs upon my own logic and observations. And because of that I choose to come here on a Bigfoot forum and discuss what I find compelling and interesting and I dont appreciate being preached to by nay sayers every time I turn around.

As a lifetime hunter I saw a trackway one time I found pretty darn compelling, Im sorry you were not there. But telling me that MOST of science does not give any credit to this subject IS NOT a newsflash to me.

Most people at one time thought the sun revolved around the Earth.......and very recently most people did not believe any other species of the genus Homo walked the Earth 10,000 years ago except us. Both popular opinions have been smashed........

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Guest diana swampbooger

 

But science has complete Neanderthal skeletons and they do not match up to bigfoot. There is also evidence Neanderthal and Humans did interbreed, but it did not result in a hybrid that looks like BF. I believe if BF exists it is a relic hominid, but Neanderthal is a dead end concerning BF, in my opinion.

 

Here's a little personal story. My dad was only 6' tall, Mom on 5'9". I'm 6', my brothers are 6'5" & 6'7". Personally, not gonna count a lot of "yeah but" as to what height can & can't do when it comes to epigenetics, good nutrition & back crossing of a hybrid like Neanderthal.

 

Did you take a look at Minnesota Woman's lower face from the nose down? She's 7900 +/- BP. And how about Lovelock Lake skull? I realize it'sl 2 examples with no DNA study as far as I can determine. I can be patient.

 

As far as a complete Neanderthal genome, I think Svante Pääbo & team haven't cracked ancient Neanderthal across the board. The latest I've read, there's a little fudging here & there with a few samples... I can be patient.

 

In my humble opinion.

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Rockape

It's the feet though, Neanderthal do not have huge feet. That's one reason I think they are a dead end. There are a lot of hominids in the fossil record already, but only partial skeletons, some only a few bones. If they can find one with the big feet, we might have something. I'm no scientist but I would think it can be reasonable extrapolated that Gigantopithicus had large feet. Had to to hold up that frame. They are still the best bet to be bigfoot or an ancestor of bigfoot, in my opinion.

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Guest diana swampbooger

It's the feet though, Neanderthal do not have huge feet. That's one reason I think they are a dead end. There are a lot of hominids in the fossil record already, but only partial skeletons, some only a few bones. If they can find one with the big feet, we might have something. I'm no scientist but I would think it can be reasonable extrapolated that Gigantopithicus had large feet. Had to to hold up that frame. They are still the best bet to be bigfoot or an ancestor of bigfoot, in my opinion.

 

lol, my brother's size 15's @ 6'7" might disagree with you.

 

I'm adding in the Neanderthal appearing tooth marks of Townsend's white paper.

 

But I'll agree with you, there definitely could have been shenanigans way back. Someday there will be better machines for ancient DNA.  

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Bodhi

<Until the believers present incontrovertible proof for the claims of a breeding population of from 1 - 4 species of totally new (not in the fossil record) 8 to 20 foot tall "apes" which have red or orange glowing eyes and who can use infra sound and portals to stun and escape and love pancakes and maybe braid the hair of horses and maybe, possible can fly up to 1,000 ft in a single jump and which has a range which amounts to all of north america but have never left a single piece of scat nor a single hair - deep breath - Yeah, cowboy.... >

 

I'm not a "believer", I'm a skeptic and will be unless I see one myself or some solid proof is found, but that post is something that is a pet peeve of mine. Non believers grab all the crazy ideas that have been reported and assign them to everyone who does believe. An ex-member here Cervelo used to say 90 percent of the evidence is crap, and with that I agree, but there is some that is compelling and that is what needs to be focused on, not the crazy stuff. I suppose the 90 percent that is crap is easier to dismiss than the 10 percent that is viable though.

You call it crazy stuff but how do you know? I am willing to bet that at least some of the items listed, which you think are crazy, are believed by others here. The infrasound thing is bandied about like it's definitively real - which just baffles me. You might think that pancake eating is crazy but, in all honesty, there's no real way to separate the crazy from the realistic in this field. Just because you think Ketchum's reports of braided hair is nutty doesn't mean it's not true, you can't know at this point.

That's the dilemma and the point of my post.

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