Bigfoot: Does It Exist? Or Not?

[norseman]

Dmaker,

I'm responding to Rogue's assertion that both mysteries would be solved with a type specimen, and he questions how that is different from one another......

Its vastly different.

Edited September 5, 2015 by norseman

[hiflier]

Hello Ontario Squatch,

 

...If someone can get one dead or alive, then Bigfoot won't be treated much differently then any other known animal.

I agree, except in the anthropological, social, religious, industrial, governmental, biological, environmental, and psycholical sense

Edited September 5, 2015 by hiflier

[roguefooter]

Absolutely it does!

How do you propose to get a DNA sample from an Alien? Let alone a type specimen?

 

 

According to the evidence, people are having encounters with Aliens inside their own homes, in their backyards, on the streets, etc. There are multiple repeat encounters. People have even claimed to have shot and killed them.

 

How does one get a DNA sample from an Alien? Devise a plan based on the encounters- just like Bigfoot. So far attempts at obtaining Bigfoot DNA has failed, so the idea that one would be more difficult than the other is kind of moot at this point.

[David NC]

It would also require people to admit something is evidence. DNA of not exactly human abductors has been recovered and tested, it will still not do anything to progress anything until humans can get on the same page about discovering the truth no matter what it may be.

 

This below is text from the series of encounters by Peter Khoury  from Australia that ended in the collecting of 2 hairs from a woman described below, the hair sample came from the blond.

 

These two women looked human in nearly every way. They had well proportioned adult bodies. One looked somewhat Asian, with straight dark shoulder-length hair and dark eyes. The other looked perhaps Scandinavian, with light-colored ("maybe bluish") eyes and long blond hair that fell half-way down her back. Her hair was especially notable to Peter Khoury. "I had never seen a hair style like that. It was curled something like Farrah Fawcett, but to an extreme... It just looked really exotic in a way," he told Chalker.

 

But Khoury felt that these women were not exactly human. Their faces were somewhat odd -- not unattractive, but too chiseled, with very high cheekbones and eyes that were two or three times larger than normal. Khoury took special notice of the blonde. Her face was too long, he felt. "I have never seen a human looking like that," he said.

 

The blonde, who was sitting in a kneeling position on the bed, seemed to be in charge. Khoury thought she was communicating telepathically with the dark-haired woman, who was sitting with her legs partly folded under her. There was something stiff, almost blank, in the expressions of the women, Khoury thought.

 

 

 

The pieces of hair, carefully stored away since the encounter, became the subject of the first openly-reported scientific DNA test on a possible abduction-related sample.

 

The blond hairs were extremely thin and almost clear in color. It was determined that the hair was not chemically treated, because if it had been, little or no mitochondrial DNA could have been recovered. However, using the PCR (polymerase chain reaction) process, good quality DNA was recovered.

 

For comparison, samples were also taken of Peter Khoury's hair and that of his wife Vivian. DNA was successfully extracted from Peter's hair, but no usable DNA was recovered from Vivian's hair, possibly because of chemical treatment.

 

After thorough testing of the hair samples, the scientists of the Anomaly Physical Evidence Group arrived at a startling conclusion. The thin blond hair, which appeared to have come from a light-skinned caucasian-type woman, could not have come from a normal human of that racial type. Instead, though human, the hair showed five distinctive DNA markers that are characteristic of a rare sub-group of the Chinese Mongoloid racial type.

 

A detailed survey of the literature on variations in mitochondrial DNA, comprising tens of thousands of samples, showed only four other people on record with all five of the distinctive markers in the blond hair. All four were Chinese, with black hair.

 

Mitochondrial DNA is passed only from mother to child and therefore offers a means of tracing ancient ancestry on the mother's side. The findings suggest that all four of the Chinese subjects share a common female ancestor with the blonde woman. But there is no easy explanation for how this could be.

 

Testing for nuclear DNA, if such could be recovered from the blond hair, would be more complex and expensive than the tests run so far, but might show that the lineage of the blonde's father was even stranger than that of her mother. But such testing must await funding that has yet to be found. So far, the members of the Anomaly Physical Evidence Group have financed all their work themselves.

 

Without the blond hair sample, the story told by Peter Khoury is but one more in an almost endless sequence of wrenching, but unprovable, abduction accounts. The hair, however, changes everything. It undeniably exists, and thorough forensic testing shows that it is anomalous. It seems likely that no person with blond hair and an exact DNA match to Khoury's blonde could be found in the city of Sydney, nor on the continent of Australia, nor -- probably -- anywhere in the world.    

 

 

 

 

To keep this on topic with the OP, if we keep throwing out evidence( as in throwing out purported Sasquatch dna samples because they have human markers) because it does not support our view of what should be then we are throwing out any chance of knowing the whole picture when it comes to Sasquatch or any other being we are confronted with.

Edited September 7, 2015 by David NC

[Guest Crowlogic]

Another forum member whined about my thread devoted to this post so to avoid  tears and fits I've moved it here.

 

This post began as a reply to another poster but I’ve decided it deserves a proper thread even if some don’t.   A proponent quote  to me  “There is no proof of bigfoot either side of the PGF.† To that I began  my reply of   look at the entire picture not just the flash in the pan of the PGF.  In the middle of the 20th century there was essentially no focus or awarness in the possibility of a North American bipedal ape until Jerry Krew (sp) (employee of Ray Wallace) came forth with his cast.  But Ray was being a busy boy back then stompin' them out.  So all of a sudden the employee of a print fabricator has a cast.  Ever hear of guilt by association?  Jerry didn't stomp it but he was in the neighborhood of the stomper so to speak.  It is a coincidence a bit too cozy considering just how rare the bigfoot phenomenon is don't you think?  I think he was duped unknowingly.

 

 

Now young Roger comes along and falls in love with the idea.  He has the drive and time to indulge his passion and he does.  Eventually Ray Wallace (remember him) tells Roger to head for Bluff creek and Roger complies with the suggestion.  Once again we all know what Roger returned with.  In it's own right it was a sensation that rivaled the frozen figure in the coffin making the rounds and getting lots of press.  For a couple of years it all seemed possible.  But it was still after all the 60's and we were going to the moon and some folks were eating mushrooms and playing wild music.  It was, as they say, the modality of the times.  Heck if we can go to the moon why can't a 15 foot tall ape be up the mountains?  And this boys and girls is exactly what happened.  Soon folks were seeing monsters almost everywhere and big ones too.  Dr.Grover Krantz was saying things like better pack a heavy fire arm and make your shot count because you'll only get one shot off if it don’t.  Indeed imaginations were on fire all over. 

 

 

But none of that potential ever materialized.  It stayed neatly in the shadows and evolved neatly to conform to observations that 15 feet tall is the stuff of Hollywood and the reportages became less sensational.  That’s right junior if you’re gonna tell a story make it believable.  So 7 and 9 feet conveniently   became the industry standard.  But what happened to the real giants?  Those guys that put them in books and made big cutouts of them to pose with surely must have known what they saw and known what they were doing.  If you write a book and take the effort to make a 15 ft tall plywood cutout you’ve got to be telling the truth.  Or you’ve got to be cashing in on the craze.

 

 

The craze didn’t go away although it almost did.  Instead it blossomed into a cottage industry and formed it’s own vocabulary .  Yup we be Squatchin’ .  Now perhaps that is the death knell to reason since a good buzz word will go a lot further in these times than a history of hoaxes and carnival side shows.  Still with all the subculture, speculations and breaking events ready to rock the world the end of the Bigfoot rainbow remains vacant of the very thing that it’s believers cling to.  It could almost be given the dispensation that it is so long overdue except for the knowledge of how the ball was first put into motion.  It’s like the groove a record that generates sound but is incapable of moving to the next song because there isn’t a next song to move onto.

[norseman]

Absolutely it does!

How do you propose to get a DNA sample from an Alien? Let alone a type specimen?

 

 

According to the evidence, people are having encounters with Aliens inside their own homes, in their backyards, on the streets, etc. There are multiple repeat encounters. People have even claimed to have shot and killed them.

 

How does one get a DNA sample from an Alien? Devise a plan based on the encounters- just like Bigfoot. So far attempts at obtaining Bigfoot DNA has failed, so the idea that one would be more difficult than the other is kind of moot at this point.

This is ridiculous. Evidently your deepest thoughts into either endeavor is chuckling at the National Enquirer headlines while buying beer at the check out encounter.

Evidence for Ape men? We have them.......we have plenty of fossils in Africa and Asia that is the bedrock in our understanding of human evolution. At this time we do not have proof of a extant Ape man in north America. And this may be because there is nothing out there to shoot an drag in.

We have zero evidence that aliens exist, despite our best and brightest assuring us they are out there. But if......if they are traveling to Earth from many light years away? We can safely assume they are well beyond falling for zagnut bait stations, and it would be more likely that it would be the human in the trap and not the other way around. The most popular hypothesis by scientists about how a type three civilization would carry out galactic exploration is by using robots to do it anyhow.

Its a apples and oranges comparison.

[Guest Crowlogic]

 

 

Absolutely it does!

How do you propose to get a DNA sample from an Alien? Let alone a type specimen?

 

 

According to the evidence, people are having encounters with Aliens inside their own homes, in their backyards, on the streets, etc. There are multiple repeat encounters. People have even claimed to have shot and killed them.

 

How does one get a DNA sample from an Alien? Devise a plan based on the encounters- just like Bigfoot. So far attempts at obtaining Bigfoot DNA has failed, so the idea that one would be more difficult than the other is kind of moot at this point.

This is ridiculous. Evidently your deepest thoughts into either endeavor is chuckling at the National Enquirer headlines while buying beer at the check out encounter.

Evidence for Ape men? We have them.......we have plenty of fossils in Africa and Asia that is the bedrock in our understanding of human evolution. At this time we do not have proof of a extant Ape man in north America. And this may be because there is nothing out there to shoot an drag in.

We have zero evidence that aliens exist, despite our best and brightest assuring us they are out there. But if......if they are traveling to Earth from many light years away? We can safely assume they are well beyond falling for zagnut bait stations, and it would be more likely that it would be the human in the trap and not the other way around. The most popular hypothesis by scientists about how a type three civilization would carry out galactic exploration is by using robots to do it anyhow.

Its a apples and oranges comparison.

 

Who are the best and the brightest saying aliens definitely exist?  But likely they do exist given the scale of the cosmos.  The pop culture aliens are far more in the realm of woo and the scale of human habitation on the landmasses of earth are a far more restrictive stage in allowing for big unknown animals.

[Cotter]

 

Absolutely it does!

How do you propose to get a DNA sample from an Alien? Let alone a type specimen?

 

 

According to the evidence, people are having encounters with Aliens inside their own homes, in their backyards, on the streets, etc. There are multiple repeat encounters. People have even claimed to have shot and killed them.

 

How does one get a DNA sample from an Alien? Devise a plan based on the encounters- just like Bigfoot. So far attempts at obtaining Bigfoot DNA has failed, so the idea that one would be more difficult than the other is kind of moot at this point.

 

 

Well, when someone does get Alien DNA, has it tested, has it come back as an extremely rare chinese mongoloid with blonde hair....it still doesn't gain any traction:

 

From Peter Khoury's encounter:

 

"...the worlds first PCR (polymerase Chain Reaction) DNA profiling of a biological material imploicated in a alien abduction experience. The analysis confirmed the hair came from someone who was biologically close to normal genetic, but of an unusual racial type - a rare Chinese Mongoloid - one of the rarest human lineages known, that lies further from the human mainstream than any other except African pymies and aboriginals.

There was a strange anomaly of it being blonde to clear instead of black, as would be expected from the Asian type mitochondrial DNA. The study concluded, "The most probable donor of the hair must therefore be as (Khoury) claims: a tall blonde female who does not need much color in her hair or skin as a form of protection against the sun, perhaps because she doesn't require it."

 

This sort of stuff is out there....but routinely gets ignored.....much like BF does.

 

This sort of result would back up certain 'ancient race' and 'hollow earth' theories and that 'aliens' are indeed from this planet.

Edit - Oops...I see DavidNC beat me to it.  (Plussed David!)

[norseman]

Absolutely it does!

How do you propose to get a DNA sample from an Alien? Let alone a type specimen?

 

 

According to the evidence, people are having encounters with Aliens inside their own homes, in their backyards, on the streets, etc. There are multiple repeat encounters. People have even claimed to have shot and killed them.

 

How does one get a DNA sample from an Alien? Devise a plan based on the encounters- just like Bigfoot. So far attempts at obtaining Bigfoot DNA has failed, so the idea that one would be more difficult than the other is kind of moot at this point.

This is ridiculous. Evidently your deepest thoughts into either endeavor is chuckling at the National Enquirer headlines while buying beer at the check out encounter.

Evidence for Ape men? We have them.......we have plenty of fossils in Africa and Asia that is the bedrock in our understanding of human evolution. At this time we do not have proof of a extant Ape man in north America. And this may be because there is nothing out there to shoot an drag in.

We have zero evidence that aliens exist, despite our best and brightest assuring us they are out there. But if......if they are traveling to Earth from many light years away? We can safely assume they are well beyond falling for zagnut bait stations, and it would be more likely that it would be the human in the trap and not the other way around. The most popular hypothesis by scientists about how a type three civilization would carry out galactic exploration is by using robots to do it anyhow.

Its a apples and oranges comparison.

Who are the best and the brightest saying aliens definitely exist?  But likely they do exist given the scale of the cosmos.  The pop culture aliens are far more in the realm of woo and the scale of human habitation on the landmasses of earth are a far more restrictive stage in allowing for big unknown animals.

Not likely......but a mathmatical probability.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

You can start with SETI and work out from there.

[Cotter]

Stephen Hawking has some interesting comments on the subject as well.

[hiflier]

Hello Crowlogic,

 

 

 

Another forum member whined about my thread devoted to this post so to avoid  tears and fits I've moved it here.

 

"whined"? Is that all the respect you can muster? "tears"? Yep, I guess it is.........

[Bodhi]

 

 

Absolutely it does!

How do you propose to get a DNA sample from an Alien? Let alone a type specimen?

 

 

According to the evidence, people are having encounters with Aliens inside their own homes, in their backyards, on the streets, etc. There are multiple repeat encounters. People have even claimed to have shot and killed them.

 

How does one get a DNA sample from an Alien? Devise a plan based on the encounters- just like Bigfoot. So far attempts at obtaining Bigfoot DNA has failed, so the idea that one would be more difficult than the other is kind of moot at this point.

 

 

Well, when someone does get Alien DNA, has it tested, has it come back as an extremely rare chinese mongoloid with blonde hair....it still doesn't gain any traction:

 

From Peter Khoury's encounter:

 

"...the worlds first PCR (polymerase Chain Reaction) DNA profiling of a biological material imploicated in a alien abduction experience. The analysis confirmed the hair came from someone who was biologically close to normal genetic, but of an unusual racial type - a rare Chinese Mongoloid - one of the rarest human lineages known, that lies further from the human mainstream than any other except African pymies and aboriginals.

There was a strange anomaly of it being blonde to clear instead of black, as would be expected from the Asian type mitochondrial DNA. The study concluded, "The most probable donor of the hair must therefore be as (Khoury) claims: a tall blonde female who does not need much color in her hair or skin as a form of protection against the sun, perhaps because she doesn't require it."

 

This sort of stuff is out there....but routinely gets ignored.....much like BF does.

 

This sort of result would back up certain 'ancient race' and 'hollow earth' theories and that 'aliens' are indeed from this planet.

Edit - Oops...I see DavidNC beat me to it.  (Plussed David!)

 

extraordinary claims extraordinary evidence - have the results been replicated? have the interpretations of the initial data been reviewed by other experts and confirmed? if the answer is no then why not, surely this would be novel results with earth shaking ramifications.

[Cotter]

Apparently they were, but perhaps a better question for Bill Chalker.

Not sure if he still uses this e-mail addy, but here you go!
 

bill_c@bigpond.com

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

From Peter Khoury's encounter:

 

"...the worlds first PCR (polymerase Chain Reaction) DNA profiling of a biological material imploicated in a alien abduction experience. The analysis confirmed the hair came from someone who was biologically close to normal genetic, but of an unusual racial type - a rare Chinese Mongoloid - one of the rarest human lineages known, that lies further from the human mainstream than any other except African pymies and aboriginals.

There was a strange anomaly of it being blonde to clear instead of black, as would be expected from the Asian type mitochondrial DNA. The study concluded, "The most probable donor of the hair must therefore be as (Khoury) claims: a tall blonde female who does not need much color in her hair or skin as a form of protection against the sun, perhaps because she doesn't require it."

 

That's very similar to the results that Brian Sykes got from one of Dr. Fahrenbachs Sasquatch hairs. 

[Old Dog]

Hello Crowlogic,

 

 

 

Another forum member whined about my thread devoted to this post so to avoid  tears and fits I've moved it here.

 

"whined"? Is that all the respect you can muster? "tears"? Yep, I guess it is.........

 

Kind of like whining about somebody whining.