So Why Won't The Habituators Come Forward And Lend Bigfoot Science A Real Hand?

[Incorrigible1]

I know Ricky Nelson wrote it, but I prefer the way John Fogerty sings it. Anyway, I'm honored that you cared enough to correct the "mistake".

 

 

 

I'm a fan of "I Can't Get No Satisfaction" by The Beatles.

[jayjeti]

The following it written about a habituator.  It mentions two different tales of a trapper in British Columbia living alone in the wilderness.  The article notes that both might be the same person.

 

 

There is a guy in British Colombia, a trapper who lives way out in the woods. He’s supposedly totally habituated some Bigfoots. He’s more or less living with them in a sense. He sees them every single day.  It’s a true story. What’s even more strange is that there is a fellow up in British Colombia, a trapper, who has a similar story. He was talking to a friend of mine, telling him about Bigfoots, and then the trapper mentions that he got kidnapped by Bigfoots once! My friend said that at that point, he stopped listening to the guy, forget it.  The guy said a Bigfoot kidnapped him and took him back to a cave where the Bigfoots were living and tried to force the guy to have sex with a female Bigfoot! Just like the Albert Ostman story, no? So it looks like maybe Bigfoots do kidnap humans sometimes for breeding purposes.

 

http://bigfootevidence.blogspot.com/2011/06/robert-lindsay-bear-hunters-tale-of.html

[JDL]

"Like Hammer, I don't bother to try for "proof" anymore. And also like her, here is a line from a song that fits my philosophy: "But it's all right now, I learned my lesson well, You see, you can't please everyone, so you got to please yourself." (John Fogerty)..R. Nelson

And this is exactly how fringe pseudoscience gets to propagate. I see a lot of bigfooters pleasing themselves and making cute videos that charm, delight but never actually deliver the goods. The people making them are sure having fun but when does the self indulgent become guilty of softening the minds of others?

I'm sick of the spoof videos too. I think most of them are actually made by skeptics,though. Edited March 14, 2016 by JDL

[Celtic Raider]

The following it written about a habituator.  It mentions two different tales of a trapper in British Columbia living alone in the wilderness.  The article notes that both might be the same person.

 

 

There is a guy in British Colombia, a trapper who lives way out in the woods. He’s supposedly totally habituated some Bigfoots. He’s more or less living with them in a sense. He sees them every single day.  It’s a true story. What’s even more strange is that there is a fellow up in British Colombia, a trapper, who has a similar story. He was talking to a friend of mine, telling him about Bigfoots, and then the trapper mentions that he got kidnapped by Bigfoots once! My friend said that at that point, he stopped listening to the guy, forget it.  The guy said a Bigfoot kidnapped him and took him back to a cave where the Bigfoots were living and tried to force the guy to have sex with a female Bigfoot! Just like the Albert Ostman story, no? So it looks like maybe Bigfoots do kidnap humans sometimes for breeding purposes.

 

http://bigfootevidence.blogspot.com/2011/06/robert-lindsay-bear-hunters-tale-of.html

 

When I see someone felt the need to emphasize 'true story' that would be an indicator to me that it is made up!

 

People who tell the truth don't have to reinforce the fact it is true usually 

[Celtic Raider]

 

 

 

I was witness to lots of stuff in 2013 that freaked me out and I came here to try and find answers.

I got a big education about the science, the woo, the believers and the doubters.  

I learned that there are rival groups, and posers.  

I had just found out that there were sightings close to me, and that bigfoots lived in Ohio?  What?  Others saw what I saw nearby.

 

Saying all that, to get to your point about sharing things, I want to give back to this community that helped me when I was just learning about things.  I agreed to help on a couple of media projects as a favor to the investigators who helped me.  It takes guts to put the story out there, and if it wasn't for the people near here that posted their account on BFRO, and those investigators who answered my call, I would have still been wondering what the    I saw that day.  

 

 

Let me be one to buck the perception that habituators don't share, (yeah I didn't do that on this post). I would love to get answers, if you have a thought about it.  I'll tell you what I know, if you tell me what you know.  Together we should be able to figure something out, no?

 

 

Sorry for the long post.  I hope I can answer some questions about why people keep quiet, but I have always been enthusiastic about helping others that have helped me...and maybe together, we can figure some of this stuff out.  Until then, I'll just be enjoying nature in the Mohican Valley, Ohio and happy that I have the time to stay up until the sun rises.  It's so beautiful here. 

 

Thank you all. 

Hammer

 

 

 

Interesting post Hammer, just wondering if you could concisely describe what you were witness to. Was it only sounds or did you see a creature you thought was a sasquatch? Did you see any tracks or signs? How many times disi you have experiences and where they all at night?

 

Thanks! 

[Redbone]

 

I'm a fan of "I Can't Get No Satisfaction" by The Beatles.

 
A big thumbs down on that one...

 

I see a lot of bigfooters pleasing themselves and making cute videos that charm, delight but never actually deliver the goods. The people making them are sure having fun but when does the self indulgent become guilty of softening the minds of others?

 

This one's real cute...

Edited March 14, 2016 by Redbone

[See-Te-Cah NC]

 A few others that did admit their affliction were banned or just left in disgust. We have to be stubborn to stay.

 

They were banned for what, for telling others of their experiences? I think not.

 

Like all of our members, they're expected to post according to the rules. If they don't, like any other member, they could be banned. It's behavior that will eventually lead to a ban, not what they believe or the claims they make.

 

We work with all members regardless of their stance on the matter. We have bent over backwards to help unruly members, which is something the membership never gets to see. Yet if they still refuse to comply with the rules, they are eventually banned.

 

Nobody is or was ever banned for claiming that they were habituating with Bigfoot. It just didn't, nor will it ever happen. Your assertion is simply incorrect.

 

The forum staff won't be blamed for anyone's exit. Your assertion that they were banned because they claimed habituation isn't fair. It's not accurate, either.

[Guest ChasingRabbits]

 

Why should habituators come forward with their evidence? What's in it for them? A warm fuzzy feeling that their work enabled someone to get a PhD or to become an expert?  Heaven forbid if any one of them would charge a fee to access their property because we all know that science doesn't care about money (which is why researchers are always trying to get grants for that filthy lucre---because they're not it in for the money.) And the minute someone tries to profit from science, well gosh, they're thrown into the scumbag file because science doesn't care about money.

 

How has the local populations near any "field research areas" benefited? Did the locals near Gombi get anything other than foreigners and land use restrictions? Has living next door to the preserve improved their quality of life to the point that it's comparable to a similar-sized town in the westernized nations?

 

How about fame and their face all over social media (we all know how people aspire to this these days) and the small matter of quadrupling the value of their property?

 

If they are concerned with these creatures welfare and protection, the best way to protect them would be to have an official announcement they exist so they can be formerly protected and their habitats protected.

 

Failing that, how about that old chestnut money?? Good quality HD video of these creatures would be worth a fortune to the Discovery channel if it was filmed prior to the 'official' discovery and they can cobble together a hastily arranged Finding Bigfoot Discovery episode..........  

 

 

The local population of Rwanda and Uganda have benefited hugely from the business, infrastructure, education and worldwide exposure that the mountain gorilla has enabled in these parts - further education is needed however that these creatures are much more valuable for the whole country alive than dead in the back of a poachers 4x4.........

 

 

As I stated in my post, we all have the perception that money and "science" don't mix, which is why researchers are always kissing A-- to get government or private grants. And we all have the perception that "science" doesn't like fame, which is why researchers never host tv shows, write books for the lay audience or articles in lay magazines, do lectures for lay audiences or anything remotely connected to "fame" such as being photographed for LIFE magazine during its heyday or being named TIME man of the year or having photo-ops with presidents, royalty, etc. 

 

So what's in it for the habitutator? Charging a fee to study their BF would be out of the question for "science" and so would fame, especially if that "fame" includes a healthy dose of mockery, ad hominem arguments and the like from "science" and the BF community. Doing any of these things---fame, money---will only diminish their street cred in the science community and put anything their integrity into question. As Hammer indicated, it's like calling a puppy over only to beat it with a roll of newspaper: it's not worth it for them to come forward and share their observations or their BFs.

 

Rwanda and Uganda can thank the IMF and World Bank for their improved infrastructure, education and business, not mountain gorilla research.

[Sasfooty]

 

 A few others that did admit their affliction were banned or just left in disgust. We have to be stubborn to stay.

 

They were banned for what, for telling others of their experiences? I think not.

 

The forum staff won't be blamed for anyone's exit. Your assertion that they were banned because they claimed habituation isn't fair. It's not accurate, either.

 

 

I don't know the details as to why they were banned. As one of my BFs frequently says "Not my business". And where did I mention anything about the forum staff being to blame?

 

However, my assertion was very accurate. They came, they told of their experiences, they were attacked & ridiculed by skeptics & even some believers, & many eventually left for their own reasons or were goaded into fights & got banned.

[See-Te-Cah NC]

No, your assertion is incorrect yet again. Besides, no matter how often they were goaded they have the responsibility to react within the rules. There's a report button at the bottom of each post, and these members could simply report any inappropriate goading. At that point, the forum staff could deal with it appropriately.

 

Many of the members you speak of chose to deal with their doubters by posting responses that were outside the forum's rules. As you know, responding to a post inappropriately, or responding to inappropriate content instead of reporting it, can lead to the responding member being assessed warning points, which can lead to an eventual ban,

 

Again, you're asserting that these poor, innocent members (that happen to hold your viewpoint) were ushered out for their beliefs. Yet again, I'm telling you that this isn't true. While you're certainly welcome to your own opinions and beliefs, you're not entitled to your own facts.

 

They weren't victims, no matter how you attempt to preset them in that light. Nobody on the staff is singling out these poor habbers for their claims.

[Sasfooty]

Whatever you say sir.

 

I do not argue with my superiors.

[See-Te-Cah NC]

How can you argue when you know nothing about what the forum staff does?

 

The bottom line is that I won't stand such assertions of unfair treatment of our members by the staff.

 

By the way, if we were dead set against habbers and their claims, why is there a user-friendly subforum where habbers are free to discuss their supposed daily interactions with the forest people? You've made some pretty bizarre claims in that thread, yet you've not been banned, or even threatened with such. This fact alone shows that your claims of malfeasance are without merit.

[Celtic Raider]

 

 

Why should habituators come forward with their evidence? What's in it for them? A warm fuzzy feeling that their work enabled someone to get a PhD or to become an expert?  Heaven forbid if any one of them would charge a fee to access their property because we all know that science doesn't care about money (which is why researchers are always trying to get grants for that filthy lucre---because they're not it in for the money.) And the minute someone tries to profit from science, well gosh, they're thrown into the scumbag file because science doesn't care about money.

 

How has the local populations near any "field research areas" benefited? Did the locals near Gombi get anything other than foreigners and land use restrictions? Has living next door to the preserve improved their quality of life to the point that it's comparable to a similar-sized town in the westernized nations?

 

How about fame and their face all over social media (we all know how people aspire to this these days) and the small matter of quadrupling the value of their property?

 

If they are concerned with these creatures welfare and protection, the best way to protect them would be to have an official announcement they exist so they can be formerly protected and their habitats protected.

 

Failing that, how about that old chestnut money?? Good quality HD video of these creatures would be worth a fortune to the Discovery channel if it was filmed prior to the 'official' discovery and they can cobble together a hastily arranged Finding Bigfoot Discovery episode..........  

 

 

The local population of Rwanda and Uganda have benefited hugely from the business, infrastructure, education and worldwide exposure that the mountain gorilla has enabled in these parts - further education is needed however that these creatures are much more valuable for the whole country alive than dead in the back of a poachers 4x4.........

 

 

As I stated in my post, we all have the perception that money and "science" don't mix, which is why researchers are always kissing A-- to get government or private grants. And we all have the perception that "science" doesn't like fame, which is why researchers never host tv shows, write books for the lay audience or articles in lay magazines, do lectures for lay audiences or anything remotely connected to "fame" such as being photographed for LIFE magazine during its heyday or being named TIME man of the year or having photo-ops with presidents, royalty, etc. 

 

So what's in it for the habitutator? Charging a fee to study their BF would be out of the question for "science" and so would fame, especially if that "fame" includes a healthy dose of mockery, ad hominem arguments and the like from "science" and the BF community. Doing any of these things---fame, money---will only diminish their street cred in the science community and put anything their integrity into question. As Hammer indicated, it's like calling a puppy over only to beat it with a roll of newspaper: it's not worth it for them to come forward and share their observations or their BFs.

 

Rwanda and Uganda can thank the IMF and World Bank for their improved infrastructure, education and business, not mountain gorilla research.

 

 

You would have to be in denial if you thought there wasn't some monetary value attached to the discovery of the worlds only other bipedal primate literally on your own property. There would be a feeding frenzy from the likes of National Geographic. Whilst I appreciate that not all people are motivated by money, I find it incredulous that all habituators are so blasé. Much, much more likely in my opinion that they simply can't back up what they claim rather than they simply do not want the publicity and upset of their idyllic rural lives - if anything that notion seems a little patronizing.

 

I would beg to differ on the importance of eco-tourism in the likes of Uganda and Rwanda, specifically the gorilla tourism. Whilst being less than 10% of the employment sector it provides an eye opening 44% of GDP for Rwanda:

 

Rwanda's service sector suffered during the late-2000s recession as banks reduced lending and foreign aid projects and investment were reduced.^[22] The sector rebounded in 2010, becoming the country's largest sector by economic output and contributing 43.6% of the country's GDP.^[8] Key tertiary contributors include banking and finance, wholesale and retail trade, hotels and restaurants, transport, storage, communication, insurance, real estate, business services and public administration including education and health.^[22]

Tourism is one of the fastest-growing economic resources and became the country's leading foreign exchange earner in 2011.^[23] In spite of the genocide's legacy, the country is increasingly perceived internationally as a safe destination;^[24] The Directorate of Immigration and Emigration recorded 405,801 people visiting the country between January and June 2011; 16% of these arrived from outside Africa.^[25] Revenue from tourism was US$115.6 million between January and June 2011; holidaymakers contributed 43% of this revenue, despite being only 9% of the numbers.^[25]

Rwanda is one of only two countries in which mountain gorillas can be visited safely; gorilla tracking, in the Volcanoes National Park, attracts thousands of visitors per year, who are prepared to pay high prices for permits.^[26] Other attractions include Nyungwe Forest, home to chimpanzees, Ruwenzori colobus and other primates, the resorts of Lake Kivu, and Akagera, a small savanna reserve in the east of the country.^[27]

Edited March 14, 2016 by Celtic Raider

[Guest ChasingRabbits]

 

 

 

As I stated in my post, we all have the perception that money and "science" don't mix, which is why researchers are always kissing A-- to get government or private grants. And we all have the perception that "science" doesn't like fame, which is why researchers never host tv shows, write books for the lay audience or articles in lay magazines, do lectures for lay audiences or anything remotely connected to "fame" such as being photographed for LIFE magazine during its heyday or being named TIME man of the year or having photo-ops with presidents, royalty, etc. 

 

So what's in it for the habitutator? Charging a fee to study their BF would be out of the question for "science" and so would fame, especially if that "fame" includes a healthy dose of mockery, ad hominem arguments and the like from "science" and the BF community. Doing any of these things---fame, money---will only diminish their street cred in the science community and put anything their integrity into question. As Hammer indicated, it's like calling a puppy over only to beat it with a roll of newspaper: it's not worth it for them to come forward and share their observations or their BFs.

 

Rwanda and Uganda can thank the IMF and World Bank for their improved infrastructure, education and business, not mountain gorilla research.

 

 

You would have to be in denial if you thought there wasn't some monetary value attached to the discovery of the worlds only other bipedal primate literally on your own property. There would be a feeding frenzy from the likes of National Geographic. Whilst I appreciate that not all people are motivated by money, I find it incredulous that all habituators are so blasé.

 

I would beg to differ on the importance of eco-tourism in the likes of Uganda and Rwanda, specifically the gorilla tourism. Whilst being less than 10% of the employment sector it provides an eye opening 44% of GDP for Rwanda:

 

Rwanda's service sector suffered during the late-2000s recession as banks reduced lending and foreign aid projects and investment were reduced.^[22] The sector rebounded in 2010, becoming the country's largest sector by economic output and contributing 43.6% of the country's GDP.^[8] Key tertiary contributors include banking and finance, wholesale and retail trade, hotels and restaurants, transport, storage, communication, insurance, real estate, business services and public administration including education and health.^[22]

Tourism is one of the fastest-growing economic resources and became the country's leading foreign exchange earner in 2011.^[23] In spite of the genocide's legacy, the country is increasingly perceived internationally as a safe destination;^[24] The Directorate of Immigration and Emigration recorded 405,801 people visiting the country between January and June 2011; 16% of these arrived from outside Africa.^[25] Revenue from tourism was US$115.6 million between January and June 2011; holidaymakers contributed 43% of this revenue, despite being only 9% of the numbers.^[25]

Rwanda is one of only two countries in which mountain gorillas can be visited safely; gorilla tracking, in the Volcanoes National Park, attracts thousands of visitors per year, who are prepared to pay high prices for permits.^[26] Other attractions include Nyungwe Forest, home to chimpanzees, Ruwenzori colobus and other primates, the resorts of Lake Kivu, and Akagera, a small savanna reserve in the east of the country.^[27]

 

 

I do not doubt that money plays an important role in many people's lives, including scientists. But greed expresses itself in varying degrees. For some people, fame and notoriety isn't worth any amount of the money. For some people it is. Some people want to do their job, do it well, and go home at the end of the day, not caring if their colleagues think they are the greatest thing in the world. Some people want to be the "expert" and want to bask in the glory of being an "expert".

 

So for the habituator who thinks the money ain't worth it and who doesn't aspire to being an "expert", what's in it for them? Let's be real here, the minute anyone comes forward and says "I've been feeding a family of BFs for the last 20 years. Here are the pics. Here are the videos. Come on over and take a look for yourself." the reaction from this forum will be "yeah right, what a fraud. Someone call the insane asylum, they have an escapee. I won't believe that nutter until an independent, group of reknown zoologists, geneticists, primatologists, biochemists, geologists and pastry chefs look into it and come to a conclusion. Until then, that guy is a liar."  And the excuse for calling the person a nutter or a fraud or whatever derogatory appellation will be "We've been burned too much in the past. So we have the right and authority to call that person a nutter, looney, fraud, liar, until proven otherwise."  (And you wonder why no one wants to come forward........)

 

the problem with the BF community is that you cannabalize your own, making it a sport to dissect the person and not their data. Seriously, if the "real" sciences operated like that good ol' Albert Einstein and his illegitimate child would have immediately discredited any and all of his research. Ditto for super-Nazi Werner von Braun, racist James Watson and others. 

 

Regarding Rwanda and Uganda. Check the data from the IMF, UN, World Bank: at least 1/2 of their populations below the international poverty line, because they live in the rural areas where the gorillas (and occasionally the guerillas) are, not in the cities where plumbing, roads, schools, and electricity are, but the gorillas aren't.

Edited March 14, 2016 by ChasingRabbits

[Incorrigible1]

So for the habituator who thinks the money ain't worth it and who doesn't aspire to being an "expert", what's in it for them? Let's be real here, the minute anyone comes forward and says "I've been feeding a family of BFs for the last 20 years. Here are the pics. Here are the videos. Come on over and take a look for yourself." the reaction from this forum will be "yeah right, what a fraud. Someone call the insane asylum, they have an escapee. I won't believe that nutter until an independent, group of reknown zoologists, geneticists, primatologists, biochemists, geologists and pastry chefs look into it and come to a conclusion. Until then, that guy is a liar."  And the excuse for calling the person a nutter or a fraud or whatever derogatory appellation will be "We've been burned too much in the past. So we have the right and authority to call that person a nutter, looney, fraud, liar, until proven otherwise." (And you wonder why no one wants to come forward........)

 

 

The BFF has a history of ferreting out fraudulent claims. That's a good thing. If said habituator furnished photos, I'm sure they would be examined in detail. They would stand or fail on their merit.

 

And enough with the "woe is me" attitude regarding skeptical questioning. If the claimant is wrongfully denounced, the report function would solve the issue. Self-martyrdom not necessary.