Why Has No Hunter Ever Shot A Bigfoot?

[Incorrigible1]

So if the theory of the meteor that made the dinosaurs go extinct is correct, maybe these "cavemen" were able to somehow survive deep in caves avoiding extinction. There are lots of species that did survive extinction by the way. I guess what I'm trying to say is, it they didn't go extinct 65 million years ago like the dinosaurs why would you worry about the species going extinct now?

Wait, what? Weren't you the one that just provided Norseman with your "what if" scenario whereby what if the one he shot were the last of their species? And now you ask why he's worried about their species going extinct. You seem to be all over the dial on this one.

BTW, the extinction event of the dinosaur's demise 65mya, there were no apes or humans at that time. Your timeline is a little off, too.

All that said, welcome to the BFF!

[Guest]

Many consider the Wooly Mammoth a dinosaur and apparently we were around then which wasn't all that long ago of course. But really, who truly knows how long the human being has been around? We don't! Just because scientists haven't found our bones from that era, doesn't mean they didn't exist.

The 'what if' scenario Squatcher provided was to provoke thought surrounding our conscience.

[Guest]

No death certificate? The death certificate would say he was killed by a bear or something. BF does not exist, you can write on a death certificate that he was killed by an animal that does not exist.

Yes, MIBS do get involved in BF cases, along with black vans and black helicopters. Of course.

Yes, they do bury their dead. We have a number of witnesses who have seen them doing so.

We have a number of BF pics from trail cams. It's just that you guys don't like them. Yes, they know what cameras are. They know their environment and know where the cameras are. I have seen a few trail cam pics that I think are BF's, but you guys don't like them. Remember, every single pic and movie of a BF is "not a clear movie or pic," including the crystal clear P-G film, which is as clear as day.

And if BF is proven to exist, how you will explain the 3 issues you raised above?

So then can you show me the death certificate or newspaper article that describes the bear killing with a date that closely matches the story about Bigfoot? Shouldn't be hard. Find the Bigfoot story with the three men being chased and the one killed by BF. Get the location and approximate date. Then find the newspaper article with matching date and location describing three hunters trying to escape a bear but one gets killed. Viola! Now that would be compelling. And that would be real BF sleuthing.

So I just accept it when you say MIBS are involved? Really? How did you arrive at this conclusion? From a few anonymous "eye-witness" accounts (notoriously unreliable as in mistaken, hoaxes, lying)that such and such vehicle pulled up and took evidence? Sorry, I need more than that. And IMO so should you.

So I just take people at their word they've seen BF's burying their dead? What are your standards for believing in something? How many people telling you they believed in Unicorns because they've had sightings, unidentifiable hairs and plaster hoof-casts as evidence before you would believe in them too? 20? 2000? What are your standards? Why haven't these people who've seen a BF burying their dead ever lead anyone back to retrieve the body or even a pinky of it? Where do the BF's bury the bodies in the dead of winter when the ground is frozen? Do BF's only die in the summer? Neat trick, that.

And if BF is proven to exist, how you will explain the 3 issues you raised above?

I won't have to explain anything. They'd be catalogued and studied, producing those answers.

[Guest]

Wait, what? Weren't you the one that just provided Norseman with your "what if" scenario whereby what if the one he shot were the last of their species? And now you ask why he's worried about their species going extinct. You seem to be all over the dial on this one.

No one knows how many of the species still exists. And like I said, it was a "what if" scenario.

BTW, the extinction event of the dinosaur's demise 65mya, there were no apes or humans at that time. Your timeline is a little off, too.

And you can say for a fact that there were no humans or apes that lived with the dinosaurs? I've seen human tracks fossilized with dinosaur tracks with my own eyes.

All that said, welcome to the BFF!

Thanks for the welcome! Glad to be here.

[norseman]

Norse, what kind of protection would you say they need? Just asking.

They aren't going to go extinct Norse, there are truly more of them out there then you can comprehend actually. Its us who lack the senses to know when they are near. No not behind every bush but more then you know.

Granted, they should be protected from people shooting them. Happens more often then you can imagine. Yahoos who see one and think their little guns and supreme skills will end the mystery forever. So they shoot at it and it just walks away without flinching. They end up not telling anyone, mostly because they won't be believed anyhow. But also because they too realize it looked human and they ultimately fear some form of legal retribution.

You've Never looked one in the eyes Norse. You say now you would shoot Patty, but you haven't been there. You've seen a few tracks and that keeps their true essence a distant concept for you still. When you do look one in the eyes and you can't pull that trigger because of the way he/she is looking into yours, with the same humanness you recognize in yourself and loved ones, then get back to me okay.

They know to stay away from people BECAUSE it usually and often leads to some form of confrontation. We are the ones who haven't evolved here.

1) Without scientific recognition and study? I cannot say what their numbers are........and neither can you.

2) And I'm simply telling you what my intentions would be Prag, it's strictly hypothetical of course, but as a hunter and a rancher I'm a pretty stone cold killer Prag. I don't think shooting a Squatch would be as hard as butcher a steer I bottle fed as a calf.........but whatever.

3) Lastly, I do not have your faith that the species is doing well, and "doesn't need us". I don't think in this modern age of clear cutting, dams, road building, water pollution and urban sprawl, being UNRECOGNIZED as a species is a healthy thing.

[Guest]

Why haven't these people who've seen a BF burying their dead ever lead anyone back to retrieve the body or even a pinky of it? Where do the BF's bury the bodies in the dead of winter when the ground is frozen? Do BF's only die in the summer? Neat trick, that.

I'll address these.

While its never happened to me, I can relate to the desire to not betray them by revealing their existence. Pretty simple really. Its called empathy and trust.

As for burying bodies in dead of Winter when the ground is frozen, that may be true for a few days at a time but generally even under snow, the ground is not frozen solid. The earth is around 57° and in fact is partly responsible for melting the snow each season. In other words, the snow also melts from the ground up, not just from the surface down.

Its only when you have deep freezes that you will solidify the very surface of the earth, but if there is any kind of insulation, like 6" of snow, well its not frozen at all. I would think you would know that if you have any outdoor knowledge.

[Guest]

2) And I'm simply telling you what my intentions would be Prag, it's strictly hypothetical of course, but as a hunter and a rancher I'm a pretty stone cold killer Prag. I don't think shooting a Squatch would be as hard as butcher a steer I bottle fed as a calf.........but whatever.

Norseman, sasquatch is not an animal. There is a big difference in butchering a steer and shooting a human creature in cold blood. If you've never seen the species, you don't know what it is.

[Guest]

I'll address these.

While its never happened to me, I can relate to the desire to not betray them by revealing their existence. Pretty simple really. Its called empathy and trust.

As for burying bodies in dead of Winter when the ground is frozen, that may be true for a few days at a time but generally even under snow, the ground is not frozen solid. The earth is around 57° and in fact is partly responsible for melting the snow each season. In other words, the snow also melts from the ground up, not just from the surface down.

Its only when you have deep freezes that you will solidify the very surface of the earth, but if there is any kind of insulation, like 6" of snow, well its not frozen at all. I would think you would know that if you have any outdoor knowledge.

Sorry, that's all very weak. So every person who saw BF burying their dead didn't reveal the location out of empathy? You assign the empathy you would feel to the witnesses? How do you know what they feel? Not only arrogant but clairvoyant too. If you can flat out explain it that way then i can flat out say they were all lying. Fair's fair.

As for the frozen ground, sorry, your numbers are a little off. They might be closer if BF's were known to employ steel shovels, but short of that you'll have to try harder.

I like how you avoided responding to the rest of my post though. Nice!

[Guest Silver Fox]

I'll address these.

While its never happened to me, I can relate to the desire to not betray them by revealing their existence. Pretty simple really. Its called empathy and trust.

As for burying bodies in dead of Winter when the ground is frozen, that may be true for a few days at a time but generally even under snow, the ground is not frozen solid. The earth is around 57° and in fact is partly responsible for melting the snow each season. In other words, the snow also melts from the ground up, not just from the surface down.

Its only when you have deep freezes that you will solidify the very surface of the earth, but if there is any kind of insulation, like 6" of snow, well its not frozen at all. I would think you would know that if you have any outdoor knowledge.

There is one sighting suggesting that BF's dig holes in frozen lakes and then throw their dead in the lakes. BF skeletons were seen in a lake where holes had been cut in the frozen surface during the winter.

[Guest Blackdog]

Many consider the Wooly Mammoth a dinosaur....

Nobody considers the Woolly Mammoth a dinosaur.

[norseman]

Ok, I had an encounter in NE Oregon back in 2006. Luckily I was wearing a "head cam" and got it on video. Not so lucky, the camera I was using had a wide angle lens with no zoom and the subject was 150 yards across the canyon, so needless to say the video is not so good. However, I did view the subject with my binoculars as it peaked from behind a large ponderosa pine. I was able to see the face very clearly, along with the neck and the right shoulder and part of the right arm. What I saw changed my life forever, and I can tell you this much...it wasn't an ape. If I had to describe what I did see, I would say it was a caveman looking human with a light coating of hair on it body. Otherwords, you could clearly see caucasian like skin beneath the hair. It didn't have a coat of hair like a bear, ape, etc.

So you see it as a human, in which it should be afforded all constitional rights as any other citizen. Did you see it build a fire? Make stone tools? Or any other trait that is accredited to the Homo line? Or is it just an ape on two legs that roughly resembles us?

So if the theory of the meteor that made the dinosaurs go extinct is correct, maybe these "cavemen" were able to somehow survive deep in caves avoiding extinction. There are lots of species that did survive extinction by the way. I guess what I'm trying to say is, it they didn't go extinct 65 million years ago like the dinosaurs why would you worry about the species going extinct now?

You were the one worried about me making them go extinct by shooting one.........remember?

And just a small fact for you, 65 million years ago all mammals were the size of shrews, that's why mammals survived the impact. Lucy is about 3.2 million years old.

Our government knows the species exist, and will deny it to the general public. So why would we need help from "official sources" when they already know of the species existence?

Can you substantiate your claims?

Do you really think that proving it's existence to mainstream science would really help? NO it wouldn't. Scientists will never acknowledge the existence of the species "until a corpse if shoved under their nose" to quote a good friend of mine.

Exactly my point.

All I can say is this, if you ever do shoot one of the species you will have to live with it the rest of your life.

I'm perfectly good with that.

After you look in it's face and see the amazing human resemblance it will haunt you for the rest of your life. It would be like killing your next door neighbor in cold blood. I hope that one day you do have the opportunity as I did to actually view the species and hopefully if it's in your rifle scope you won't be able to pull the trigger.

My next door neighbor? Maybe I should check this "next door neighbor" out.

If you want to have a better understanding of the species, get away from your computer, leave your gun at home and get out there and have your own sighting and observe them. Visit areas where humans haven't walked since the Indians and you might get to see them, that's what I did. Like I said, our government already knows they exist....and proving it to mainstream science would be of no benefit at all. If the government will not acknowledge their existence to the general public, what makes you think they will protect their habitat? Just a few things to think about.

I've packed mules and horses into the wilderness since I was 19 years old. I bet I have more wilderness trail time under my belt that 90% of the posters in this forum.

And here is something for you to think about. Let's say for a second that your right......and that our government is involved in a cover up. But most citizens do not believe in bigfoot......most think it's a hoax, a spoof, nothing there. We live in a Democracy right? So what do you think would happen if one got "shoveled under the scientists noses"? Now it's no longer a hoax........but a real animal. What sort of public pressure do you think would be put on government to protect this species? IT WOULD BE HUGE.

[Guest]

There is one sighting suggesting that BF's dig holes in frozen lakes and then throw their dead in the lakes. BF skeletons were seen in a lake where holes had been cut in the frozen surface during the winter.

Well there ya go. Let's base our belief system on a sighting. That's good enough for me!

[Guest Silver Fox]

I'll address these.

While its never happened to me, I can relate to the desire to not betray them by revealing their existence. Pretty simple really. Its called empathy and trust.

In one case, in Estacada, Oregon in the summer of 1992, a philosophy professor saw 4 BF's burying another BF under rocks by a stream. He went back a year later to try to find it, but there had been heavy flooding in the spring, and the area was washed out. He could not find the site again.

[Guest]

3) Lastly, I do not have your faith that the species is doing well, and "doesn't need us". I don't think in this modern age of clear cutting, dams, road building, water pollution and urban sprawl, being UNRECOGNIZED as a species is a healthy thing.

With exception of their numbers, the latter I very much agree with you on. And its rare that a rancher recognizes these utilitarian human improvements as being ******* sensitive species. Kudos to you Norse. But many would cut the trees to allow more grazing land. Many would shoot a wolf and bury it without a thought, so I see many in conflict too in their viewing clearcuts as being bad.

Sadly we've decimated most of our forests. Most don't realize how important native forests were to our environment. Most don't realize that the original forests of the PNW served a purpose when they stood. They filtered the air. They provided a year-round sponge for water that would last through most of the Summer. When there were stands of native forests, we didn't have the giant forest fires of today, mainly because fire could not reach the canopies. Sure it happened on occasion, but nothing like with today's uniform tree farms where canopies are within easy reach of the ground and once a fire hits, it just follows onward like a giant wick.

And then there is the life that old forests once sustained. Mushrooms and lichens, the staples of ungulates and many other species through the Winter. And the canopies above protected the ground from heavy snow. The shrooms and lichen just don't grow in clearcuts or even thinned units! We have cut off much of the food supply for wild animals in the Winter. In our need for wood, we've undercut what the wild animals need to survive, but sadly we're too stupid and greedy to see it as we line our pockets with green. Bigfoot isn't going to bring back the forests that were so important to everything. They may however help us understand the importance of what is gone. Only our realizing their significance will prevent further loss, but that will provide little benefit anymore.

Before some jump on me as some tree hugger, I've marked timber boundaries, I've fought forest fires, I've lived in one of the most beautiful natural places on earth, and I've seen these sasquatch more then once. I've come to understand things from experience and that's why I speak with the conviction I do.

Edited May 26, 2011 by PragmaticTheorist

[Guest Silver Fox]

So you see it as a human, in which it should be afforded all constitional rights as any other citizen. Did you see it build a fire? Make stone tools? Or any other trait that is accredited to the Homo line? Or is it just an ape on two legs that roughly resembles us?

And here is something for you to think about. Let's say for a second that your right......and that our government is involved in a cover up. But most citizens do not believe in bigfoot......most think it's a hoax, a spoof, nothing there. We live in a Democracy right? So what do you think would happen if one got "shoveled under the scientists noses"? Now it's no longer a hoax........but a real animal. What sort of public pressure do you think would be put on government to protect this species? IT WOULD BE HUGE.

I think BF is a "nontechnological hominid," whatever sense that makes. I'm sure it's in the Homo line.

Yes, there would be pressure to protect them. Of course.

We don't know why the state is covering them up. The only quotes we have from two MIB's who contacted a woman in Oregon and told her to be quiet is that the state says "people will panic" if they find out about BF. So the state doesn't want to deal with mass freakout.