Why Has No Hunter Ever Shot A Bigfoot?

[norseman]

Back on topic.

No one has ever shot a Bigfoot because in all likely hood, in all probability, Bigfoot just ain't real - so there's nothing to shoot.

Or it's so rare that few human eyes ever grace the thing. With the remainder being pranks.

Either way it's long odds, not because I'm afraid that the invisible bionic Bigfoot army will track me down and wrap my rifle around my head.

But because it isn't there and never was there, or it isn't there but was at one time, or is there but just so **** rare that it would take ten lifetimes to stumble upon one.

[Guest]

Norse, what I am concerned about re the proving and protection route is that it hasn't been fully thought out by people. As you may recall, I fear other ramifications such as a new black market and illegal trophy hunting by those who don't care about laws. Do laws protect the Rhino or Tiger from those who will do whatever it takes to bag one for their parts?

The one area where there is a slim chance of improvement however is with respect to forests. But that's a whole new battle and timber companies will then be saying things like 'they are nomadic' so there is no need to protect individual forests. I've had one timber official tell me they are nomadic a few years ago for that matter.

Its going to become a battle we are not ready for.

[Guest Silver Fox]

Yes, scientifically minded wildlife biologists do utilize sighting reports when they write about the behavior of a species, correct. Sighting reports are part of the totality of the evidence.

[Guest Silver Fox]

Norse, what I am concerned about re the proving and protection route is that it hasn't been fully thought out by people. As you may recall, I fear other ramifications such as a new black market and illegal trophy hunting by those who don't care about laws. Do laws protect the Rhino or Tiger from those who will do whatever it takes to bag one for their parts?

The one area where there is a slim chance of improvement however is with respect to forests. But that's a whole new battle and timber companies will then be saying things like 'they are nomadic' so there is no need to protect individual forests. I've had one timber official tell me they are nomadic a few years ago for that matter.

Its going to become a battle we are not ready for.

There is no telling what consequences proof may have. Chaos is one theory is mine. Also, there could be political consequences. Americans are pretty insane and irrational politically. If BF was proven to exist, well, BF's do prey on livestock quite a bit, and there have been reports of attacks on humans and even of BF's killing humans. Nutty pundits could get hold of that and play up people's fears about BF, leading to predation permits and legalized slaughter of BF's. A huge section of the population might demand that we wipe them out as a hazard to humans and our livestock.

I worry about things like this.

[Guest]

Norseman

That’s kind of vague but I’ll start here:

The minimum it would take to convince me is a very large, very recent, uncatalogued and fresh skull – jaw-bone intact, with extractable DNA. The ideal of course would be a freshly dead body.

Scenario one would wake up all kinds of scientists and funding would skyrocket.

Scenario two would be like scenario one on steroids.

I would then like to study the hell out of it. Eventually one would have to be captured, with all the activity now going on. Being humane (remember I call the shots ‘cuz I’m the Gran Pooba) I would keep it in captivity only as long as the bare minimum demanded.

Look at its behavior.

What will it eat? Anything we give it? How much of what we give it? Nothing we give it?

Does it show signs of language?

What do its teeth indicate?

How well can it smell?

How well can it see?

So forth and so on..

Then I would radio tag it or even micro-chip it if need be drop it off where it was found and let the study begin.

Where does it go?

Is it really nocturnal – mostly still in the day with more movement at night?

How many others does it meet up with (heat-signatures at night)?

Does it really migrate and if so when and what routes?

How close or far away does to really come to homes, dumpsters ect..?

The list goes on and on…

Edited May 26, 2011 by WTB1

[norseman]

Norse, what I am concerned about re the proving and protection route is that it hasn't been fully thought out by people. As you may recall, I fear other ramifications such as a new black market and illegal trophy hunting by those who don't care about laws. Do laws protect the Rhino or Tiger from those who will do whatever it takes to bag one for their parts?

We've had this discussion before, and what I find so crazy about this assertion is that if it's taken 40 years to get one on a examination table? How is that discovery going to make them an easy target all of the sudden?

If they do exist, then obviously they are not Rhino or Tigers. They are a rare shy crafty ape, that isn't seen by too many humans........poachers or no.

The one area where there is a slim chance of improvement however is with respect to forests. But that's a whole new battle and timber companies will then be saying things like 'they are nomadic' so there is no need to protect individual forests. I've had one timber official tell me they are nomadic a few years ago for that matter.

Its going to become a battle we are not ready for.

If we do nothing? And they go extinct? We will collectively feel a lot worse than one of us shooting one and proving it exists and fighting for it. It may be a battle? But at least by proving it's existence WE ARE SWINGING BACK!

[Guest]

I've had one timber official tell me they are nomadic a few years ago for that matter.

How about his name or rank then? Did you get that? Oh wait, we're just supposed to believe you, that's right. Are "timber officials" BF experts?

[norseman]

Norseman

That’s kind of vague but I’ll start here:

The minimum it would take to convince me is a very large, very recent, uncatalogued and fresh skull – jaw-bone intact, with extractable DNA. The ideal of course would be a freshly dead body.

Scenario one would wake up all kinds of scientists and funding would skyrocket.

Scenario two would be like scenario one on steroids.

I would then like to study the hell out of it. Eventually one would have to be captured, with all the activity now going on. Being humane (remember I call the shots ‘cuz I’m the Gran Pooba) I would keep it in captivity only as long as the bare minimum demanded.

Look at its behavior.

What will it eat? Anything we give it? How much of what we give it? Nothing we give it?

Does it show signs of language?

What do its teeth indicate?

How well can it smell?

How well can it see?

So forth and so on..

Then I would radio tag it or even micro-chip it if need be drop it off where it was found and let the study begin.

Where does it go?

Is it really nocturnal – mostly still in the day with more movement at night?

How many others does it meet up with (heat-signatures at night)?

Does it really migrate and if so when and what routes?

How close or far away does to really come to homes, dumpsters ect..?

The list goes on and on…

And so I take it you would:

A) Support shooting one to prove it's existence?

Want to study it and protect it's habitat, as well as place it on the endangered species list if numbers were proven to be low?

C) Possibly view other bipedal ape accounts world wide as much more credible?

Sorry, I putting you through this as a skeptic, because for the life of me, I cannot see the upside to this species never being scientifically recognized.

As you said, funding would go through the roof. That's never a bad thing for a species.

[Guest]

A 100% to A, B and C. Absolutely. I've agreed with Krantz way back when he made the issue a hot-button.

I however, could not pull the trigger even though it would be in their best interest. Maybe when I was younger. At 44 I'm a big softy now. So that's why it's a good thing guys like you are out there.

Who knows? If they're real the possibility of finding one dead on the road is always there.

Edited May 26, 2011 by WTB1

[Guest]

How about his name or rank then? Did you get that? Oh wait, we're just supposed to believe you, that's right. Are "timber officials" BF experts?

I used to work for the forest service WTB. Talking with individuals is not unusual. This was a casual conversation at a table at a District a few years ago. No longer even remember his name for that matter as there were a few people there, but wouldn't share it if I did. Heck, I just now got off the phone with another forest official getting back to me. The topic, my presently informal request to make a presentation about bf in the future. A process in itself that may take months if it were to occur.

Like I said, your behind the curve WTB.

[Guest]

If I'm behind the curve concerning your past, that hardly pertains to the BF phenomina at all.

[Guest]

We've had this discussion before, and what I find so crazy about this assertion is that if it's taken 40 years to get one on a examination table? How is that discovery going to make them an easy target all of the sudden?

If they do exist, then obviously they are not Rhino or Tigers. They are a rare shy crafty ape, that isn't seen by too many humans........poachers or no.

That's where you've got it wrong Norse, not ape. (And I don't mean that in the we are all apes context either and yes we've been here b4.) They outsmart us out there is why we don't see em more often. Sightings are not just based on the rare crossing paths scenario. Most would be sightings never occur because they heard/smell/sensed us coming long before we were on alert. They know where not to walk so as to avoid leaving prints when they need to. But at night or wilderness they don't really care too much either.

I fear they would become a target all of a sudden because THEN, they will be known to exist. All the yahoos and poachers who once wrote them off as MYTH, will soon have their existence VERIFIED and that will provide them the drive to pursue them. Right now there is little reason to chase what they view as imaginary.

If we do nothing? And they go extinct? We will collectively feel a lot worse than one of us shooting one and proving it exists and fighting for it. It may be a battle? But at least by proving it's existence WE ARE SWINGING BACK!

I realize this is a lot to accept, but they won't go extinct. There REALLY are more out there then you are allowing yourself to believe. You have found a print so you know there is something out there. That's the first hurdle you've crossed. But there really is more to them then maybe your life experiences allow room for. Let me ask you this, when you are hunting, are you using your gut senses? I mean, if you feel you are being watched by something, do you pay attention? I'm going to assume your answer is yes because I'm a hunter too and these are things I suspect we have in common. The thing is, that sense is just the tip of the iceberg. Some people are much more profoundly in-touch with their senses then that. Well imagine a species even more in touch. That's part of why they can avoid us so well. And yeah, they can even pick up on the intentions of people. Which may well be the very reason you may never see one.

I have a guide friend who has killed 65 elk. He's in his late 50's. He packs in to areas via mule just like you. He has never seen even a print though. HOWEVER, his step daughter has seen two bigfoot. I give him a good ribbing cause of that. I tell him that maybe one day he'll see a bigfoot and then he'll grow up to be a 'true mountain man'. lol Another friend of his who is the average hunter has seen one in Idaho and won't talk about it. It makes no sense why my friend has never seen one tho with all the time he has spent in the woods. No sense, unless you factor in some of the other unexplained crap. Just like I don't yet understand why I have seen 4 of them along with numerous non-visual encounters. Once again makes no sense but I think it has something to do with my not being willing to shoot one (unless forced to). But that also goes back to something that happened 30 yrs ago that I won't talk about openly, cause there is more. Still I am trying to understand 'why?' the encounters. It is something that goes beyond our normal measurement of the world around us that's for sure. And yeah, it requires me to be more open minded too.

[norseman]

A 100% to A, B and C. Absolutely. I've agreed with Krantz way back when he made the issue a hot-button.

I however, could not pull the trigger even though it would be in their best interest. Maybe when I was younger. At 44 I'm a big softy now. So that's why it's a good thing guys like you are out there.

Who knows? If they're real the possibility of finding one dead on the road is always there.

I would wish this long before shooting one as well.

But I wouldn't pass up a once in a lifetime opportunity if nothing had turned up.

[Guest]

Yes, yes it is.

What you saw through your binos at 150 YARDS was an ape that LOOKS LIKE US. Unless you can prove to us that it uses fire, makes tools, and has language? It's not of the recent Homo line........it's not us, it's not human.

If it was a Cro Magnon, you would have seen a spear, some skins for clothing, some jewelry, and maybe even a campfire with something roasting on it.

Not going to get into an argument with you about this because I have seen the species and I know what they are by what I saw and observed. I also had another experience while camping where Shoofly Creek runs into the Wenaha River, but that's another story for another time. You on the other hand have not seen one, so cannot say what they are. I can tell you this, the species is not Ape and not of the Genus Gorilla or Pan. And I never said it was Cro-Magnon or Neanderthal either. I think it is of the Genus Homo, but not Homo Sapien, maybe Homo Erectus. Just because it could be of the Genus Homo, doensn't mean that it would make weapons, clothing or cook by fire. And how do you know that it doesn't have it's own language that is different from ours? Until you go out there and do your own research and have your own sighting, all you can do is speculate. I think you need to do a little research on human primates and non human primates. The gorilla and chimpanzee are not of the genus homo. The chimpanzee belong to the genus Pan (chimpanzees and bonobos). The gorilla's are all of the genus gorilla, but each species gorilla has it's own species and sub-species. i.e. Gorilla genus= gorilla, Species Eastern Gorilla (Gorilla beringei), sub species Mountain Gorilla (Gorilla beringei beringei). According to science, Gorillas are the largest living primates and belong to 2 species Western Gorilla and the Eastern Gorilla. Humans are primates but belong to the species Homo Sapiens. Gorillas generally move around by knuckle walking i.e. walking by using their knuckles to support their weight and balance. Humans on the other hand are bipedal species. This means that the humans walk around using their two rear limbs. Gorillas are primarily vegetarians and generally survive on fruits, shoots, bamboo, etc. Humans are omnivorous which means that they are able to consume both vegetarian and non-vegetarian foods. From all sightings and accounts, sasquatch is omnivorous and eats both meat and plant. Also according to science, the word "hominid" refers to members of the family of humans, Hominidae, which consists of all species on our side of the last common ancestor of humans and living apes. Hominids are included in the superfamily of all apes, the Hominoidea, the members of which are called hominoids. Although the hominid fossil record is far from complete, and the evidence is often fragmentary, there is enough to give a good outline of the evolutionary history of humans. However, there are those that don't believe in evolution and don't consider gorillas and chimpanzee's as being related to humans and the Genus Homo.

Edited May 26, 2011 by squatcher

[Guest]

If I'm behind the curve concerning your past, that hardly pertains to the BF phenomina at all.

And if we go back to my original statement saying 'behind the curve', it would be specifically about how you perceive bigfoot.