Hybrid Hypothesis Dead, Done, Stick A Fork In It....

[norseman]

.....So some thing unnatural took place with in our evolutionary tree that created these creatures that change theirs and our DNA at a molecular level...

 

These are some of the upheavals in Europe that were going on around 40,000 years ago. In other words, during the last 10-15,000 years of Neanderthal. Check the large long-term cosmic ray superwave bombardment noted in the ice cores with the discovery of the proxy isotopes of beryllium 10, NO3, and other signatures. DNA could have mutated then? Brain power could have been enhanced? Neanderthal could have died off after generations of cancers. It's an interesting study believe me, Ran across it about 5 years ago.

They think now that we brought African diseases with us that did them in.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3021779/Neanderthals-killed-diseases-modern-humans-gave-resistance-illnesses-finds-study.html

Makes sense. All of the nasty stuff today comes out of jungle equator areas.

[southernyahoo]

Neanderthal Y chromosome IS extinct. Thats a huge fork stuck right in the heart.

Again, I never said we not successful in reproducing hybrid females, hence the reason why Europeans and Asians have 2-4% Neanderthal DNA. But without hybrid boys to mate with they were simply absorbed back into the human population.

 

 

You're still making a leap to assume there were no viable males, there are other reasons why the male Neanderthal Y chromosome mutations were phased out of the gene pool if true ( we haven't tested every human.) Natural selection and re-isolation are still players in this.

 

[hiflier]

An estimated 70,000 individuals at their peak is not a lot to show for well over 200,000 years of existence. At around 100,000 years we are over 7 billion and counting. I've often wondered if what was around for Neanderthal was possibly only a remnant of a far superior civilization. Larger brains is one of the reasons I've questioned how after 230,000 plus years there was no wheel or other apparent higher technology. And even though the world in general was primitive I have still found it extremely odd that such a long-lived group seemed to have never advanced even though science now credits them with being farther along than previously thought.

 

Even H.S.Sapiens first wheel was a potters wheel rather than a mode of transportation whether for agriculture, war, or building so maybe Neanderthal just never had the light go on. Long time to be so backward. I've toyed with the notion that what there was of the civilization (or what was left?) were more like survivors of their own style of apocalypse that two rounds of Ice Maximums 100,000 years apart put them through. Tough individuals to have lived through just about everything Nature could throw at them. I tip my hat to them.

[Yuchi1]

IIRC, radiation can cause genetic mutation and sometimes on extreme levels as we've seen from Chernobyl, et. al..

 

Who's to say the planet hasn't experienced significant radiation events (solar flares, meteor strikes etc.) at times in the distant past with genetic makeups being altered on a regional or even local level?

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

 

Neanderthal Y chromosome IS extinct. Thats a huge fork stuck right in the heart.

Again, I never said we not successful in reproducing hybrid females, hence the reason why Europeans and Asians have 2-4% Neanderthal DNA. But without hybrid boys to mate with they were simply absorbed back into the human population.

 

 

You're still making a leap to assume there were no viable males, there are other reasons why the male Neanderthal Y chromosome mutations were phased out of the gene pool if true ( we haven't tested every human.) Natural selection and re-isolation are still players in this.

 

 

When isolated populations merge with mainstream populations you get deviations only in the single percentages.

So if an archaic human groups merged back you would find only a small sample of "different" DNA.

Neanderthal is only a few percentage points of different DNA that is currently present.

So the question is what was the analysis?

Edited April 13, 2016 by Cryptic Megafauna

[norseman]

Neanderthal Y chromosome IS extinct. Thats a huge fork stuck right in the heart.

Again, I never said we not successful in reproducing hybrid females, hence the reason why Europeans and Asians have 2-4% Neanderthal DNA. But without hybrid boys to mate with they were simply absorbed back into the human population.

You're still making a leap to assume there were no viable males, there are other reasons why the male Neanderthal Y chromosome mutations were phased out of the gene pool if true ( we haven't tested every human.) Natural selection and re-isolation are still players in this.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt? This hybridization never spawned a third distinct seperate species like what has been proposed with Sasquatch. Who is this mystery ape man that represents the paternal side of Sasquatch? And why are the human women from all over the globe 12000 years ago in North America?

Its no leap at all, but the Sasquatch hybrid theory has way more problems than just unborn male fetuses.

[ShadowBorn]

Norseman

According to this article  http://www.sci-news.com/othersciences/anthropology/science-neanderthal-genes-modern-human-dna-01734.htmlNeanderthal did mix with modern man. That 20% of the population carries Neanderthal DNA with them. So some thing else mutated these creatures to what they are now and has nothing to do with Neanderthal. But we did learn that it is possible for human to give child birth to Neanderthal. Which for myself is really fascanating in it's self.

 

The species that you are after and that we have seen is of a another origin, some thing that has DNA that has mutated in such a way that it defies( well I hate to say it, science ! ).

Edited April 13, 2016 by ShadowBorn

[norseman]

I KNOW Neanderthals bred with modern Humans!!!

Evidently some people are not reading the original article or are simply failing to grasp the implications of the article.

I'm also not saying that Neanderthals spawned Sasquatch. What I'm saying is that Human women aborted Neanderthal/Human fetuses per the article. Therefore Melba Ketchum' human hybrid theory is dead. You cannot have a human - mystery ape man hybrid such as Bigfoot running around with no boy Bigfeets. Doesnt work....

It's a parallel situation. What doesnt work scientifically with humans and neanderthals also affects human/sasquatch hybrid theories.

Edited April 13, 2016 by norseman

[SWWASAS]

I think we have to remember that the number of humans that have been DNA tested is very small relative to the entire population.     I found references to the fact that there has been little DNA testing of NA individuals because many of the tribes no longer exist and have been adsorbed into the general population of the US or the tribes themselves are not interested in getting tested.     Probably still suspicious of the small pox infected blankets they were given in the 1800s.  .       Could there be descendants of those Red Haired giant tribes out there who had relations with other NA tribes?    We just do not have enough testing done of the population at large to know much of this.     

 

Now and then you see someone walking around on the streets that looks virtually identical to the artist renderings of Neanderthals.    Hairy, exaggerated forehead etc.     Are we seeing genetic throwbacks, genetic abnormalities,  or just the results of two humans who both have a lot of Neanderthal in them?   I would love to see those people tested.   

[FarArcher]

I'm a bit mystified by this "midtarsal break" baloney.

 

Now I'm not saying that some of these critters don't show up with some footprints that look like a midtarsal break, but I don't see it in every footprint - and one would think if this is a physical characteristic, we'd see it consistently.

 

But we don't.

 

I'm highly skeptical that there is a mid tarsal break.

[norseman]

http://www2.isu.edu/~meldd/fxnlmorph.html

[SWWASAS]

The real glitch with the midtarsal break is that some humans exhibit the trait too.     Depending on the source, 20 to 30 percent of NW European descendents.      Meldrum used to claim that break was definitive but he can no longer do that.    So a footprint in the human norm size should be looked at with suspicion even if it exhibits the trait because some humans have the trait too.  

 

 Looking at BF,  they have to have the same sort of ailments and foot problems that humans do.     I am just getting over a middle toe problem that had me hobbling around.     So while a youthful or young adult BF may have a very pliant foot, and leave lots of evidence of a midtarsal break or flex in the footprint, I would imagine an older bigfoot, who has had foot injuries,  a very leathery foot bottom, or may be getting arthritis, would have a foot much less pliant and flexible.     Just seems logical for a BF to have the same issues other bipeds like humans have.     

[norseman]

He has always claimed some humans exhibit a flexible foot. I remember years ago him talking about rubbing his wifes super flexible feet. And that his sons inherited the trait.

Of course explaining the mid tarsal break with giant feet and stride running around in a wild forest in the cold and wet???

That puts it into context.

I'd rather not turn this thread into foot morphology though.

[FarArcher]

I don't know enough about foot morphology to make any argument one way or the other, but I do have one explanation for some of these tracks.

 

I'm not an expert tracker, but I've done some here and there.  Many times I've walked carefully for a few miles and then backtracked myself to see what sign I left on different substrates so I'd better know what to look for in others.

 

I've spent way too much time walking on the beach, and there are tons of footprints left.  Lots of midtarsal breaks exhibited - but they weren't left by bigfoots, and on the way back, I've noted that I even left those types of tracks.

 

If you are casually taking your time, your foot will pretty much put straight downforce in the sand.  But if you're stretching your legs out a bit - the heel comes down in a bit of a forward motion, "pushing" a bit of sand up in front of the heel in the direction you're walking.  Then when your foot "pushes" off on the ball of the foot and toes, you "push" a bit of sand back, adding to the previous line your heel pushed forward, and you have the clear indication that you have a mid tarsal break - even when you don't.

 

Moisture content of sand will further enhance or minimize this effect.  Close to the water, more moisture content, fifty feet back, very little moisture content.  As one wanders to and fro, you'll note some areas will show a "midtarsal break" and other areas won't.

 

Patty.  Where was she walking?  Creek bottom?  Sand?

 

I personally don't put much faith in an apparent this midtarsal break routine as an indicator of an ape status - just as it's too easily duplicated inadvertently - with longer gaits.

[ShadowBorn]

I KNOW Neanderthals bred with modern Humans!!!

Evidently some people are not reading the original article or are simply failing to grasp the implications of the article.

I'm also not saying that Neanderthals spawned Sasquatch. What I'm saying is that Human women aborted Neanderthal/Human fetuses per the article. Therefore Melba Ketchum' human hybrid theory is dead. You cannot have a human - mystery ape man hybrid such as Bigfoot running around with no boy Bigfeets. Doesnt work....

It's a parallel situation. What doesnt work scientifically with humans and neanderthals also affects human/sasquatch hybrid theories.

I really do hate hackers but that's ok, I did have some thing written until I got interrupted by them. Now I did read your article and feel that it is dead wrong on what I have learned about chromosomes. What you are saying is that Human women aborted Neanderthal/Human fetuses per the article, Right! Which states: " But a new analysis of the Neanderthal Y chromosome, the package of genes passed down from fathers to sons, shows it is missing from modern populations. But this is not true since this is not pass down from the father to the son but to the daughter from the father. But for there to be hybridization in humans there had to be a close match to human in order for this to take place and there only few species that match this but do not show up in samples. Instead show up unknown which means there is some thing that is out there living that we have not yet discovered. This is what makes it hard to except for every body and will be until a body is presented that will show what this species is.

 

If the female has aborted the fetes of this combination it is due to nature selecting it. Since The father and the mother chromosome may be different it is a recombination that selects whether it will be either a male or a female with in the mother. The Y chromosome is a "unique pattern of inheritance" so if it is unique which means;

 

u·nique

/yo͞oˈnēk/

adjective

adjective: unique

1.

being the only one of its kind; unlike anything else.

 

You are not going to find it among humans who have bred Neanderthals. But then nature chose to destroy this species since one species developed more efficiently among our evolutionary tree then the other.