Olympic Peninsula Nesting Area Update

[Martin]

^ DNA testing won't/hasn't come back similar to Ketchum's study. 

 

Only viruses have single stranded DNA.

 

http://www.biology-online.org/dictionary/Single_stranded_dna

 

I did find this interesting from the above site - "Single stranded DNA can also be produced artificially by rapidly cooling a heat-denatured DNA. Heating causes the strands to separate while rapid cooling prevents them from renaturation."

 

Here are the sources for some of Ketchum's 111 tested "bigfoot" samples from her study in her own language directly from her report. 

 

Sample #102 - Circumstance -  Fox - Head hair found on old float rack Fox used as a pillow in the basement

Sample #105 - Circumstance -  Toby - Hair from Left forearm caught in garage door

 

 

 

[hiflier]

33 minutes ago, WSA said:

But there is some use for DNA testing we shouldn't overlook. Each and every time a sequence comes back with something similar to that nDNA result Ketchum published, it is another dent in that wall. Enough times that comes back as the conclusion, you elevate her findings to a point of reasonable probability

 

And this is the underlying point I'm trying to make. Sure, if a sample's nuDNA comes back as Human and something.....novel that's one thing, if it consistently comes back Human and something novel then yes, chinks in the wall should occur. But the issue is no one seems to want to touch this stuff with a ten foot pair of forceps. And we all know it. So it's catch 22 big time because as long as no one takes this on then Ketchum will be continually vilified. Where's the back up? And if someone or some place wants to jump in where's the money? Hard for me to think that not ONE lab or one scientist, Meldrum or anyone else push for any follow up lab work. Nope, but they will fawn all over Sykes, yes? The same Sykes who back pedaled on his results and came out admitting his Yeti hair wasn't from an extinct polar bear but was from a common Brown Bear.

 

I get the impression ANYONE who delves into this kind of study will be destroyed in one fashion or another. It makes me think that instead of getting on the tar and feather bandwagon we should be supporting the people doing OUR work  We can't do this kind of science, and we can't afford this kind of science and so trashing everything about these kinds of efforts is a serious mistake. MY OPINION. The skeptics will have a field day with me because of my position on this but I have not and WILL NOT back down.

[Incorrigible1]

Thanks for planting the Tom Petty song in my head! It's fine, as I caught him and the Heartbreakers two nights running over Memorial weekend. ;-)

[WSA]

Martin...not sure I understand where you are going with that comment.  Does that assumed fact really alter the validity of her findings, and if so, in what way?

 

[hiflier]

You're welcome Inc!  Go ahead, make me green as green can be with jealousy. Petty is such a great performer and writer. Bet it was an outstanding show(s). AAAAND you just went up 50 points in my book. Someday I'll clue you in on the point system, LOL, but for now just know that you're really up there now. Ayn Rand AND Tom Petty too is a lot to absorb in anyone's book. Good job.

 

@ Martin, only a small sampling from that list got past preliminary morphology scrutiny and went on to DNA testing.

Edited August 9, 2017 by hiflier

[Twist]

3 hours ago, Yuchi1 said:

 

This came from Melba Ketchum. If you wish to cross reference, again, contact the people at Nature.

 

 

Thanks for all the help. 

[Incorrigible1]

16 minutes ago, Twist said:

 

Thanks for all the help. 

Hey, at least he didn't question your intelligence.

[Yuchi1]

Quit whining, at least your taste in music is A+!

Edited August 10, 2017 by Yuchi1

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

21 hours ago, hiflier said:

What you don't realize is that the time involved in doing all of the testing was closer to an estimated 2 MILLION dollars! $500,000 isn't even close to covering that cost. Result? Dr. Ketchums facility closed due to the loss- not mismanagement as a lot of rumor has claimed.

 

That would be information originating from Ketchum herself. The reality is that no one else other than her knows how much she spent over time. She was the one managing the study, and was constantly manipulating the situation through falsehoods. If you go through her paper, you'll notice that there isn't anything that can verify that she spent anywhere near the amount she was given to fund the study

 

 

 

 

[Yuchi1]

And, you have evidence she absconded with the cash?

 

Since you are speaking directly to her trade/business/profession a good grasp of defamation per se' is in your hands?

Edited August 10, 2017 by Yuchi1

[hiflier]

OntarioSquatch, so are you telling everyone (because it isn't just me here) that the double blind results from 12 independent laboratories should just be trashed? Call it what you wish, I have followed Dr. Ketchum, and her personal belief system, which I cannot mention here, would not allow her to taint the samples or the results. She went by the book. Committing scientific suicide by presenting bogus findings and passing them off as proof just didn't happen. Some of the scientists who slammed her study were only capable of running mtDNA themselves. Never mind them running something as complex as bioinformatics- something one of Ketchum's team could do. Besides, her samples have been gone over by others who agree with her findings- not just the 12 labs.

 

Why are you so hot on keeping Dr. Ketchum so pinned down? Why is everyone? She's Human and so makes Human errors, so what, who doesn't? I worked for a great builder who built amazing high end homes because he was a perfectionist. But as a Human he wasn't all that great. Who is? Ketchum's DNA plan and procedure for the BF genome was top notch, but she has her foibles as a Human. So what. I look at the science. I have to. I cannot for an instant let the weakness of a Human overshadow good science. And whatever you say 500,000 bucks over five years would NEVER cover the cost of the team, the labs, the publicity, the supplies, the facilities' expenses? Hundred thou a year for all of that diagnostic work? Not even close and I don't need statements from Dr. Ketchum to tell me that.

 

But this isn't a Ketchum thread now is it.   

Edited August 10, 2017 by hiflier

[Yuchi1]

Well spoken.

[hiflier]

One thing I wanted to do is address some of Ketchum's team members. Yes there are those that are involved more in criminal investigation than zoology but these people are highly skilled in the area of HUMAN DNA testing. IMHO who would be better suited for the task of determining whether or not the samples, any samples, are Human or not Human? These folks would know Human DNA when they see it without question so would then also know when DNA is NOT Human in which case they are perfect additions for such a study. Someone who can readily say, "That's Human" can also see when something isn't.

 

And when something in the nuDNA realm goes through the computerized BLAST process, which sends results through a process that compares those results to millions of DNA samples for the purposes of matching the sampled results to what already in the GenBank. and everything matches Human? That's one thing. But if there's a portion of that nuDNA that doesn't match ANYTHING in the GenBank? Then everyone should be sitting up and taking notice. But instead, the systematic dismantling of Dr. Ketchum's character  began almost immediately and took center stage to the detriment of where the focus should have been- on the double blind testing results. Human contaminated samples became the battle cry but in spite of all of that the nuDNA that came back Human plus something novel spoke for itself.

 

This 'novel' portion of the nuDNA wasn't bear, wasn't possum, wasn't tiger, wasn't butterfly, and wasn't elk or elephant. Being intermingled with Human nuDNA meant it could ONLY be primate. There's not hard about this logic. The U's government has surveillance like nobody's business. It knows for certain whether or not this creature exists. And yet not one Human from anywhere in the government or its agencies has stepped up to a podium and said anything either way. No government funding of something like the Sasquatch Genome Project just might be saying that Sasquatch doesn't exist right? But the PRIVATE sector has said different. Therefore IMHO Bigfoot proponents should be the LAST people to turn on Ketchum and her findings. And on that note I'll say it again- that lady has guts and has stood her ground the entire time in the face of incredible opposition and now in the face of real hate..........which is an emotion that has no place in science. And it certainly doesn't change what the nuDNA double blind tests have shown us.

[Martin]

7 hours ago, hiflier said:

One thing I wanted to do is address some of Ketchum's team members. Yes there are those that are involved more in criminal investigation than zoology but these people are highly skilled in the area of HUMAN DNA testing. IMHO who would be better suited for the task of determining whether or not the samples, any samples, are Human or not Human? These folks would know Human DNA when they see it without question so would then also know when DNA is NOT Human in which case they are perfect additions for such a study. Someone who can readily say, "That's Human" can also see when something isn't.

 

And when something in the nuDNA realm goes through the computerized BLAST process, which sends results through a process that compares those results to millions of DNA samples for the purposes of matching the sampled results to what already in the GenBank. and everything matches Human? That's one thing. But if there's a portion of that nuDNA that doesn't match ANYTHING in the GenBank? Then everyone should be sitting up and taking notice. But instead, the systematic dismantling of Dr. Ketchum's character  began almost immediately and took center stage to the detriment of where the focus should have been- on the double blind testing results. Human contaminated samples became the battle cry but in spite of all of that the nuDNA that came back Human plus something novel spoke for itself.

 

This 'novel' portion of the nuDNA wasn't bear, wasn't possum, wasn't tiger, wasn't butterfly, and wasn't elk or elephant. Being intermingled with Human nuDNA meant it could ONLY be primate. There's not hard about this logic. The U's government has surveillance like nobody's business. It knows for certain whether or not this creature exists. And yet not one Human from anywhere in the government or its agencies has stepped up to a podium and said anything either way. No government funding of something like the Sasquatch Genome Project just might be saying that Sasquatch doesn't exist right? But the PRIVATE sector has said different. Therefore IMHO Bigfoot proponents should be the LAST people to turn on Ketchum and her findings. And on that note I'll say it again- that lady has guts and has stood her ground the entire time in the face of incredible opposition and now in the face of real hate..........which is an emotion that has no place in science. And it certainly doesn't change what the nuDNA double blind tests have shown us.

 

^ Hiflier,

 

Almost all of your issues listed above are covered in this article. https://arstechnica.com/science/2013/07/an-honest-attempt-to-understand-the-bigfoot-genome-and-the-woman-who-created-it/

 

I don't think Ketchum even used the BLAST process. 

 

Read the entire article just as I read the entire Powell article like you requested.

 

Then let's talk.

[Yuchi1]

http://www.sasquatchgenomeproject.org/sasquatch_genome_project_003.htm