Twist Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, NatFoot said: Blasphemer!! As one of the fellow 30 somethings on here......I guess I resemble that accusation. Edited September 27, 2018 by Twist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Not doing any space travel until we invent a new propulsion technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twist Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, Will said: Not doing any space travel until we invent a new propulsion technology. Not testing new propulsion unless we are in space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 44 minutes ago, Twist said: Not testing new propulsion unless we are in space. Not doing it from Mars, might be easier to try the moon first. Then there’s that cost problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twist Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 ^^ Agreed, go to the moon, launch from there, maybe to mars, maybe further by then. Point being, we move forward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSA Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 No offense at all Twist. You are just one of many who have bought into the myth of progress. You know, the story line about how mankind is destined go from the cave to the cosmos. Except that we aren't. Notice that all the happy news about interstellar travel (and even interplanetary travel) glosses over the propulsion issues. At the most, when it is acknowledged, it is dismissed as only a trivial matter that we'll no doubt work out just in time to claim our destiny. Not a small fly in the ointment, wouldn't you say? Us going to Mars... even if there was some advantage to our species to do that... by being shot out into interplanetary space atop a gigantic roman candle that Galileo could probably trouble-shoot if he were still around is not exactly Star Trek. You may realize too that the computer in your pocket is only a refinement of a technology that has bee around for a long time. Alexander Graham Bell could probably pick one up and be happily chatting with Watson after about an hour of study. (Although he'd probably be really bemused about why, when you have voice communication, you'd ever want to type a message out on a tiny keyboard, even though the QWERTY is something he'd also have no trouble recognizing, and using) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twist Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 (edited) No offense taken at all WSA. I am going to buy into that hype, advancement may not happen as fast as I’d like, yes there are flies in the ointment, but your example of my phone being refinement of old technology is exactly what I bank on. Refinement, advancement, pushing forward!! We have taken leaps and bounds in a short time in respect to man kind, we need to keep our foot on the proverbial pedal and we only do that by pushing forward. Edited September 27, 2018 by Twist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntster Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 28 minutes ago, WSA said: ........Notice that all the happy news about interstellar travel (and even interplanetary travel) glosses over the propulsion issues. At the most, when it is acknowledged, it is dismissed as only a trivial matter that we'll no doubt work out just in time to claim our destiny. Not a small fly in the ointment, wouldn't you say?........ It isn’t a fly in the ointment. It’s a condor flying away with the ointment. There is simply no way around it; interstellar travel for biological entities requires time travel. The nearest star is 26 trillion miles away. It took 9 years for the New Horizons space probe to reach Pluto, a mere 4.7 billion miles away. Using that as a guide, it would require over 5.5 billion years to get to the nearest star. Science fiction is and always has been fun, but it’s still fiction. And space travel is incredibly expensive. Earth orbital technology has transformed our lives for the better, and I don’t oppose interplanetary research, including probes, but since I have to help pay for it like everybody else, I don’t think I’m out of line asking for a mere pittance of what is spent by the Big Science guys looking for little green men for investment in putting this remnant hominid question to bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted September 27, 2018 Admin Share Posted September 27, 2018 58 minutes ago, WSA said: No offense at all Twist. You are just one of many who have bought into the myth of progress. You know, the story line about how mankind is destined go from the cave to the cosmos. Except that we aren't. Notice that all the happy news about interstellar travel (and even interplanetary travel) glosses over the propulsion issues. At the most, when it is acknowledged, it is dismissed as only a trivial matter that we'll no doubt work out just in time to claim our destiny. Not a small fly in the ointment, wouldn't you say? Us going to Mars... even if there was some advantage to our species to do that... by being shot out into interplanetary space atop a gigantic roman candle that Galileo could probably trouble-shoot if he were still around is not exactly Star Trek. You may realize too that the computer in your pocket is only a refinement of a technology that has bee around for a long time. Alexander Graham Bell could probably pick one up and be happily chatting with Watson after about an hour of study. (Although he'd probably be really bemused about why, when you have voice communication, you'd ever want to type a message out on a tiny keyboard, even though the QWERTY is something he'd also have no trouble recognizing, and using) *scratches head* So Alexander Graham Bell would be unimpressed with the latest version on the Iphone!!?? All of human knowledge accessable by a keypad? Global news....the local weather report.....wikipedia...... huh. I think you protest too much. Cave to Cosmos is no myth.....we have already done it. Our robots have already studied every planet in the solar system. And one has flown past Pluto. We dont need a new propulsion system to get to Mars. We have sent robotic payloads and landed them safely on the surface already??? Hello? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSA Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 I think we get carried away with our own techno-grandiosity. A cell phone is still, basically, a phone. You dial a number and somebody picks it up and talks to you. It is the same digital device we've know about for a long time, just made really small, and faster. A refinement, not a new technology. It is a very small television...a much better version of a cathode ray display, but the same 2-D picture nonetheless. The idea of the internet is as old as telegraph wires and Thomas Edison's Repeater, only now it is packet switching, microwaves and fiber. Still, just a pipe, with capacity/bandwidth limitations, hardware dependent and prone to entropic gremlins. Your cell phone key pad is basically an Underwood. Heck, there is a setting that even makes it click like one. Most every car on the road today, explosions in a cylinder pushing a piston still. EVs? How long have THEY been around? A century? All of these wonderful things were invented years ago, sometimes decades ago. We just are refining them. This process should not be confused with a truly new technology that would have the ability to truly transform human life. I'm not talking about Apple's eventual 30.00 iPhone. What would be a technology that would truly be a game-changer? The same ones that have been ten years in the future for the last 50 years. Fusion or any other new energy source tops the list, but don't hold your breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twist Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 I’m shocked most of the nay sayers are the oldies. Lol Older generations have been around to witness some of our most prolific advancement we have made recently. Because we haven’t figured out propulsion yet we should just give up? Mentioning Star Trek, look how much technology we have now that mirrors the stuff Roddenberry was envisioning during the original series! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twist Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 “Most every car on the road today, explosions in a cylinder pushing a piston still. EVs? How long have THEY been around? A century” A century is a pretty small amount of time in the bigger picture of man kind! I say how we have advanced technology in just the last few hundred years bodes well for eventually figuring out space travel. Is the older generations upset they won’t get to participate? For the record, I don’t expect to be alive to go on a trip to mars either but I’m still pushing for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatFoot Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 My grandfather turned 98 this year. He has seen an incredible amount in his time here...two of his biggest regrets: he won't live long enough to see his great grandson really grow up; and he won't be around to see the first man landing on Mars and the beginning of the colonization of that planet. So, not all of the older generations have the same mindset. PS - he's an electrical engineer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 2 hours ago, Twist said: I’m shocked most of the nay sayers are the oldies. Lol Older generations have been around to witness some of our most prolific advancement we have made recently. Because we haven’t figured out propulsion yet we should just give up? Mentioning Star Trek, look how much technology we have now that mirrors the stuff Roddenberry was envisioning during the original series! That’s very interesting but older folks are usually grounded in reality......not Star Trek. And just so you know, not necessarily you but your generation will never invent space travel, they can’t even move out of their parents home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntster Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 2 hours ago, Twist said: .........Because we haven’t figured out propulsion yet we should just give up?........ Not at all. In fact, I hope very much that we can propel a whole bunch of folks across the galaxy at the speed of light. Or send them into the future. Oh, say, 6 billion of them. But it not me. I like Earth. A lot. And I’d like to have a more equitable split of scientific funding. How about just 0.5% of the current funding for Mars research for a single year to set up a ready response to the next few credible sasquatch reports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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