Implications of Apparent Consistency of Evidence

[Little Foot]

17 hours ago, Huntster said:

 

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Perhaps, but temperate rain forest areas of North America (especially those with the greatest precipitation along the Pacific Northwest) boast the highest densities of black bears, and they also appear to generate the highest number of sasquatch reports, even in the outskirts of such high human densities as the Portland and Seattle. 

 

Here is northeast Texas, we get almost a foot more rainfall per year than the two cities you mentioned.  The difference is the terrain.  The higher you get in elevation the higher average precipitation you get.  Even around those larger cities you have large areas where there are very few people.  Comparatively speaking, in NE Texas the people are very spread out, but you would be hard pressed to find more than a four square mile area without people unless it's in a flood zone or state or national park.  Black bears are different because they are not as elusive, and seem to not care if they are seen or not.  I'm not disputing that there could be a correlation.  I'm just saying that sasquatches seem to prefer larger areas of wilderness that have ample food sources.  It's just my opinion from what I've read.  I think we're both right.

 

17 hours ago, Huntster said:

 

 

 

My understanding of ZooBank is that it's more like a domain name registery or ISBN registry. Neither of those registries regulate what your name can be or the subject matter or accuracy of your book. They just register an identification so that there is no duplication or copyright violation dating dispute.

 

Yes, it is a registry so that any further DNA found would be able to be matched to something "known".  At least that's the way I understand it.  I think it is proof of a species because DNA is one of those things that can't just be made up.  I'll never understand why scientists will not recognize it, and actually go out looking for the source of the DNA.  Sadly, I think it will take some average joe or researcher to actually bring a body for science to acknowledge its existence. 

[Huntster]

8 minutes ago, Little Foot said:

........I'm just saying that sasquatches seem to prefer larger areas of wilderness that have ample food sources.  It's just my opinion from what I've read........

 

I fully agree. I believe that they understand even more than other species tge dangers of man and prefer habitat free of us. Further, the incredible invasion of Homo sapiens in the Pacific Northwest from 1800 to today (just six human generations) has likely driven sasquatches into near extinction in areas of dense human habitation. Not only have their numbers likely declined over that long term, but the remaining specimens have likely migrated into more remote areas of the region. That is difficult for pocket regions like the Texas/Arkansas/Oklahoma/Louisiana hotspot.

 

........Yes, it is a registry so that any further DNA found would be able to be matched to something "known"........

 

Ah, so they accepted the DNA evidence of a new species?

[Little Foot]

13 minutes ago, Huntster said:

 

I fully agree. I believe that they understand even more than other species tge dangers of man and prefer habitat free of us. Further, the incredible invasion of Homo sapiens in the Pacific Northwest from 1800 to today (just six human generations) has likely driven sasquatches into near extinction in areas of dense human habitation. Not only have their numbers likely declined over that long term, but the remaining specimens have likely migrated into more remote areas of the region. That is difficult for pocket regions like the Texas/Arkansas/Oklahoma/Louisiana hotspot.

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I do think their numbers are stagnant at the very least, which is a good sign extinction could be coming.  That could be one of a few different reasons sightings are on a downtrend.  Either that or they are getting smarter and not being seen as often.

 

13 minutes ago, Huntster said:

 

Ah, so they accepted the DNA evidence of a new species?

 

There's definitely DNA registered at ZooBank for a new species.  That doesn't necessarily mean that science has recognized it, or will even attempt to find its origin.  Look it up at ZooBank.org here:  http://www.zoobank.org/NomenclaturalActs/40E2FA1F-10A1-4D42-8B02-A007347F1B43

[Huntster]

53 minutes ago, Little Foot said:

........extinction could be coming.  That could be one of a few different reasons sightings are on a downtrend.  Either that or they are getting smarter and not being seen as often.......

 

Or both. And "extinction" is likely just regionally at this point. Isolated pockets like the Texas/Oklahoma/Arkansas/Louisiana corners, Florida, and the Ohio/Pennsylvania border region will certainly go extinct before the Pacific Northwest, especially north of Vancouver BC. Indeed, that slow process has been ongoing, in my opinion.

 

........

There's definitely DNA registered at ZooBank for a new species.  That doesn't necessarily mean that science has recognized it, or will even attempt to find its origin.

 

I wonder if ZooBank has accepted it as such with any discerning judgement? Did they vet the admission before acceptance?

[NatFoot]

I don't like the extinction theories. Gives us believers a "way out" almost.

[hiflier]

16 hours ago, Huntster said:

There is definitely a hotspot in the eastern Ohio/western Pennsylvania area. It's fairly rainy there, too.........

 

I just showed up here to say that I do not trust any of the reports in John Green's database that came from Don Keating. He started and organized the Ohio Bigfoot Conference (retired in 2012). He is a proven liar. Lied about his personal encounter on two radio stations back in June and September 2008. One of those podcasts was Kathy Strain's:

 

https://www.podbean.com/media/share/dir-xq9xc-1900fa1

Listen to the 07:00-08:20 minute segment

 

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/sasquatchwatchradio/2008/09/16/sasquatch-watch-radio-guest-is-don-keating-of-ohio

Listen to the 40:20-41:35 minute segment

 

https://thebigfooteryenquirer.wordpress.com/tag/don-keating/

 

 

Out of 206 Ohio reports he submitted nearly half. His successor, Marc DeWerth, who is now the Ohio Bigfoot Conference organizer, submitted some with him back in 1987 (4?), and Matt Moneymaker, who was in Ohio in the 1980's pursuing a law degree has 5 reports in the database himself.

Edited February 21, 2019 by hiflier

[Little Foot]

56 minutes ago, Huntster said:

 

Or both. And "extinction" is likely just regionally at this point. Isolated pockets like the Texas/Oklahoma/Arkansas/Louisiana corners, Florida, and the Ohio/Pennsylvania border region will certainly go extinct before the Pacific Northwest, especially north of Vancouver BC. Indeed, that slow process has been ongoing, in my opinion.

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I truly hope it's just that they are getting better at hiding than becoming extinct.  With the downtrend in sightings, it does make one wonder.

 

 

 

I wonder if ZooBank has accepted it as such with any discerning judgement? Did they vet the admission before acceptance?

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If I understand correctly, ZooBank doesn't do anything but classify and store DNA samples without prejudice.  For example, the DNA submitted by Ketchum, et al, is classified under homo sapiens as a subspecies because the mitochondrial DNA closely matches humans.  However, the nuclear DNA diverges from known human DNA.  I'm no scientist, but that's the way I understand it. 

 

 

[Huntster]

32 minutes ago, hiflier said:

 

I just showed up here to say that I do not trust any of the reports in John Green's database that came from Don Keating. He started and organized the Ohio Bigfoot Conference (retired in 2012)........

 

........Out of 206 Ohio reports he submitted nearly half. His successor, Marc DeWerth, who is now the Ohio Bigfoot Conference organizer, submitted some with him back in 1987 (4?), and Matt Moneymaker, who was in Ohio in the 1980's pursuing a law degree has 5 reports in the database himself.

 

http://mysterious-america.com/keatinginterview.html

 

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........

Don Keating: Well, I started back in 1984 when I read John Green’s book, Sasquatch: The Apes Among Us. I just happened to pick it up at the local library as I was in search of a book on UFOs, but they looked kind of boring to me. They didn’t stir my interest, so I decided to pick up the book on Sasquatch. I read it and called John Green up and talked with him for probably what was an hour and a half, and then when the conversation was over with I took the book back to the library and put it back on the shelf and never thought anything else about it. 

That was in July 1984, and then I believe that it was in August 1984 there was an article in the local newspaper, The Newcomerstown News, that had talked about strange animals being sighted in the Newcomerstown, Ohio area. One of those animals fit the description of a Sasquatch type creature, so I decided to take the ball and run with it, so to speak, and interviewed the three boys who claimed to have seen it in April 1984 outside of Newcomerstown. I interviewed them individually at first and then as a group and I was pretty convinced that they believed that they had seen what they claimed to have seen. 

As the old saying goes, one thing led to another and so that’s how my investigations and involvement in the Sasquatch or Bigfoot phenomenon began. 

Brent Raynes: So how old were in you 1984 when this all began.

Don Keating: In 1984, I would have been 22 years old..........

 

Well, I don't know anything about Keating, or the extent of his alleged lying, but in the summer of 1976 (when Keating would be @ 14 years old) on my first drive from California to Alaska, I bought my own copies of Green's "On the Track of Sasquatch" (1968) and "Year of the Sasquatch" (1970) in Williams Lake, BC. I'm not at home, so cannot refer to them, but one of them recorded well over 100 reports (168 comes to mind) in Ohio. So Green clearly recorded Ohio as a hotspot as early as 1968, when Keating was a mere 6 years old or so.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Huntster

[RedHawk454]

On 2/19/2019 at 10:00 AM, MikeZimmer said:

I am spring-boarding off another thread, prompted by an observation by OkieFoot (below):

 

 

This was always the point made by a previous member, DWA, albeit in a somewhat off-putting fashion.

 

I find it compelling, but I think what we need to ask are the following questions:

1 - Is there a real consistency in the evidence?

2 - What counts as consistency/inconsistency?

3 - How can we measure it (e.g., degree of consistency, percentage of sightings that are consistent)

4 - What mechanisms could account for this apparent consistency (e.g., organized society of hoaxers, hoaxers with access to the internet, shared delusion, ...., a real species,  anything else.)

5 - Can we use the data base to help us identify and quantify consistency?

 

I would be interested in seeing thoughtful responses to these questions. Undoubtedly there are other questions that I have not thought of.

 

The only thing I can think of is the consistency of sightings in any given area

 

we need a specimen or some believers just need to become knowers buy seeing one.

 

 

none of the evidence is definitive

 

close to 100% of the videos on youtube are trash

 

If i remember there was a BigFo0Ter who cataloged every sighting in the US I think

 

 

 

[salubrious]

On 3/1/2019 at 9:57 AM, RedHawk454 said:

 

none of the evidence is definitive

 

close to 100% of the videos on youtube are trash

 

If i remember there was a BigFo0Ter who cataloged every sighting in the US I think

 

 

 

 

Yes- but to the last comment he clearly failed in that task. My sighting isn't hard to find out about but I never heard of the guy until now.

 

[Shooter]

As for the body to come in I believe that bigfoot knows all about our hunting seasons. During rifles season most of us have to wear orange vests. They're a dead giveaway that some of us are very dangerous for the bigguy to be around while we are going around heavily armed in the woods.

[norseman]

6 hours ago, Shooter said:

As for the body to come in I believe that bigfoot knows all about our hunting seasons. During rifles season most of us have to wear orange vests. They're a dead giveaway that some of us are very dangerous for the bigguy to be around while we are going around heavily armed in the woods.

 

The 411 books claims people who wear bright clothes are more likely to disappear. Ive tried that....still here!

 

But I hunt Bigfoot 365, not just during Deer or Elk season. And most of that time Im not wearing hi-vis gear.

 

Im almost always armed.

[Shooter]

On GA WMAS they are weapon sensitive. I can carry my handguns any time of the year with my GA Carry permit but not so much on rifles, even no slugs in shotguns on other seasons than deer or bear! Private land is wide open to carry anything you can tote. It's turkey season here now so I have to carry a shotgun with 2shot or smaller. I carry my 6in 629, I don't worry much cuz where I'm hunting it's pretty close shots only 50yds or less!!! Almost forgot can you guys out west carry high power rifles on those National parks with no season going on. I have met USFS wardens in the summer up on the Cohutta while im carrying my 44 and none even ask about seeing my lic .... 

Edited March 27, 2019 by Shooter

[MIB]

9 hours ago, norseman said:

The 411 books claims people who wear bright clothes are more likely to disappear. Ive tried that....still here!

 

That's true but misleadingly presented out of context.     In those same books, Paulides says though he went in expecting to find a pattern pointing to bigfoot as the culprit, he had to back away from his expected conclusion because the data doesn't support it.    In one of the books he said it looks more and more like patterns of claimed alien abduction.   Don't jump to conclusions prematurely just to have the comfort of a conclusion because being wrong can "blind" you and kill you.   Look for anything out of place.   If something "feels" weird, stop and figure out why, don't be macho and try to bluff through it.   Don't forget to look up.   Watch for shimmery spots in the air.   Until we know, by proving, what it is, we are foolish to make assumptions about what it is not.   Erroneous certainty could prove fatal.

 

MIB

[norseman]

2 hours ago, Shooter said:

On GA WMAS they are weapon sensitive. I can carry my handguns any time of the year with my GA Carry permit but not so much on rifles, even no slugs in shotguns on other seasons than deer or bear! Private land is wide open to carry anything you can tote. It's turkey season here now so I have to carry a shotgun with 2shot or smaller. I carry my 6in 629, I don't worry much cuz where I'm hunting it's pretty close shots only 50yds or less!!! Almost forgot can you guys out west carry high power rifles on those National parks with no season going on. I have met USFS wardens in the summer up on the Cohutta while im carrying my 44 and none even ask about seeing my lic .... 

 

Yah. You dont check yer 2nd amendment rights because they think yer poaching!

 

In griz country here i carry a guide gun and a pistol. 2 lines of defense!

2 hours ago, MIB said:

 

That's true but misleadingly presented out of context.     In those same books, Paulides says though he went in expecting to find a pattern pointing to bigfoot as the culprit, he had to back away from his expected conclusion because the data doesn't support it.    In one of the books he said it looks more and more like patterns of claimed alien abduction.   Don't jump to conclusions prematurely just to have the comfort of a conclusion because being wrong can "blind" you and kill you.   Look for anything out of place.   If something "feels" weird, stop and figure out why, don't be macho and try to bluff through it.   Don't forget to look up.   Watch for shimmery spots in the air.   Until we know, by proving, what it is, we are foolish to make assumptions about what it is not.   Erroneous certainty could prove fatal.

 

MIB

 

Huh. I never read what he thought it was. Must have missed it.

 

And Im not jumping to conclusions.

 

Im just stating my observation that Ive worn a Filson red plaid mackinaw alot of places hunting and packing. If I had been targeted by Bigfoot? I would have either shot it or disappeared. Neither has happened...