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hiflier

Thermal Imagers In Bigfoot Country

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hiflier

I thought getting into some real world technology for a moment would be good. Thermal imagers. We all know what they are and what they can and cannot do. I know the devices are used on drones by Forest Service and U.S. Dept. of Agriculture to find hot spots in areas in and around forest fires. But I thought we could all dig in and specifically look for information on other uses by these agencies, like tracking migration. Here is an interesting article from this past April, 2019 https://news.mongabay.com/2019/04/lift-off-for-thermal-imaging-system-to-estimate-wildlife-populations/

 

And since the U.S. would no doubt have seen the value of this type of application maybe years ago I was wondering if there are systems deployed to either replace or in addition to the many trail cams that we all know the agencies use for monitoring. I also have no doubt that thermal imaging, maybe or maybe not in real time,  is part of the NEON surveillance system. Guaranteed it's in place for border patrol on both the northern and southern U.S. borders although as ambient daytime temps go up the ability to detect warm bodies in the landscape goes down. Just thought it would be interesting to find out if such systems are in place outside their use on drones. Can't help but think it would be important info to know about and have when going into an area to do research 

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norseman

Priceless. But I feel only one half of the equation. 😉

 

Bigfoot cannot hide his body heat. He cannot hide period from that kind of technology.

 

But the video feed alone is not proof.

 

 

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hiflier

You are spot on correct of course and it's good to stay grounded in that respect. I also think that a Sasquatch WILL have a different heat signature than its hairless biped cousins who wear clothing. The images in the article do have some distance involved but I thought what was important was the fact that wildlife agencies outside the  U.S. see the value beyond a military use. There is no doubt that militaries around the world have the best there is starting with the higher developed nations but uses for wildlife monitoring and poaching is the point here. So the question remains, how extensively is the technology being use by F&W- and you, Norseman, and everyone else know where this I going since I'm the one posting it LOL. No conspiracy theories need, thank you, but this is still fascinating technology and I have no doubt it's being used extensively. I just would like to know HOW extensively and what kinds of set ups are being deployed.

 

Like I mentioned, border patrol is a no-brainer as is Law Enforcement in general. But the subject of thermal imagers here is for wildlife monitoring and so I am curious if there is any permanent deployment is state or national forests. My guess is of course there is but with some digging and research we might be able to get a better picture of how extensive deployment is. Under bridges? Large culverts under highways? The man-made wildlife overpasses? Pinch points? Elk herds? Caribou? Other migrations? SASQUATCH? ;) 

 

Thought the little yellow box at the lower left of the article was interesting: https://durangoherald.com/articles/227651

Edited by hiflier
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MIB

You mention NEON ... NEON has different kinds of sites for studying different components of the environment.    The one closest to me is for studying stream life, another is for studying avian species.   

 

Regarding thermal imaging, the challenge is much like the challenge I've run into with long term audio ... power and storage capacity, plus security of fairly expensive equipment.   Of course, "the government" or a company that has a gov't research grant has resources I don't, but still, the issue exists.

 

10 hours ago, hiflier said:

I also think that a Sasquatch WILL have a different heat signature than its hairless biped cousins who wear clothing.

 

Agreed.   Could be demonstrated by having two people, one fully dressed, one wearing just shorts, together and compare their images.

 

MIB

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norseman

I had a buddy buy one of those FLIR I phone plug ins. He got naked and had his wife film him do the Patty walk. He is 6’6”. All in fun.

 

It lit him up like a Xmas tree.

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hiflier

Complete with ornaments? :O 

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wiiawiwb

Thermal imagers are a game changer. They revolutionize what we can do in the field.  As Norse said, a sasquatch can't hide its heat signature. 

 

What the gov't has deployed is undoubtedly state of the art and much better than anything we have access to. Having said that, we can have thousands of sasquatch folks, like us, in the field at any time with our thermals. That levels the playing field in my opinion.  We can be everywhere, all the time.

 

I think the next step with thermal imagers is being able to leave them overnight in the field. Their battery drain is an issue so they can't perform like a trail cam which you can leave for months at a time.  I am very optimistic about how thermals will enable us to get night-time videos that will be jam dropping.

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hiflier

Posted this elsewhere but it should be here:

 

Thought this would be helpful: the difference between IR and thermal imagers is that IR is an active system that utilizes a beam that is reflected back to the camera. It works on the shorter IR wavelengths whereas a thermal imager is passive and needs no light reflection as it works on longer wavelengths. One doesn't know what types of systems are deployed in habitats. Maybe both? Animals do detect active IR beam systems where passive thermal is undetectable.

 

But one cannot use a passive thermal as a motion detection system as far as I know because there still needs to be an active way to trigger it? As a result they either must be manually turned on and stay on which means a rather severe depletion of battery capacity compared to something that only turns on when something is detected in a sensor field. So.....passive motion sensor that turns on a passive thermal imager? It takes a second or two to boot up a thermal imager so it wouldn't be practical because it wouldn't be fast enough to use as a game cam

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Catmandoo
13 hours ago, hiflier said:

Under bridges? Large culverts under highways? The man-made wildlife overpasses? Pinch points? Elk herds? Caribou? Other migrations?  ;) 

 

Thermals can be limiting.

Perhaps you have noticed that many models of 'white flash' game cams are available. Wildlife personnel like daytime color images and night time white flash images to observe color of fur / hair / skin / feathers and  patterns of coloration with regard to unique markings, stripes, spots and bald spots and sex.

 

Caribou? 

How about Reindeer? NORAD tracks a few.

 

1 hour ago, hiflier said:

Animals do detect active IR beam systems

 

Really? Sure? Positive?  If they could see IR, they would be very  blind at solar noon. Very few animals see the color red, and none see IR.

 

1 hour ago, hiflier said:

 

But one cannot use a passive thermal as a motion detection system as far as I know because there still needs to be an active way to trigger it?

 

The high-end manufacturers of thermal systems are steadily working on active tracking systems for security duty. They want to eliminate the human monitor ( falls asleep )  job function and automate scanning and tracking. In time, there may be some trickle down technology. There have been motion detection systems for camera viewfinders but they have been an 'attended' operation where an operator has to delegate the target. MIOPS  'smart object tacking' is an example. A pan and tilt unit is required.

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hiflier

I have fast capture software on my computer that can track a seagull flying at night with a normal usb camera hooked up. This is at night. The fast capture software is good enough to grab meteorites and fast planes. I have not tried it on anything except night time sky objects. It was designed to fast track white objects but in daytime I think it also tracks dark objects as well as it picks up birds whizzing by.  It's a Beta version software by a guy in Europe. He didn't answer a couple of emails a year or so ago so I don't know if he's still working on the coding. In the beginning he was asking for captured images of birds and planes in order to work on the filtering out of those objects by having his software understand and disregard normal everyday things that fly along with the Sun, Moon and clouds in order to factor out false triggers. You can probably guess now what this software was intended to find and record, right? ;) It's pretty impressive really.

Edited by hiflier

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Catmandoo

What are the computer requirements?   Sky views are different than forest, under the canopy views.

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Huntster
3 hours ago, Catmandoo said:

.......Caribou? 

How about Reindeer? NORAD tracks a few........

 

ADFG now tracks several species with satellite gps sender/receivers, even fish. It all started with caribou in the Porcupine herd, justified by the political shenanigans associated with the ANWR oil debate and the fact that it's an international resource, moving regularly from Alaska to Canada and back every year.

 

Then they started tracking problem bears. Got 'em darted, anyway. "Let's see where he goes". Got a surprise every time. "So let's collar more bears and see what they do". More surprises..........

 

Then fish! The device is inpkanted in their backs with little wire like antennaes dangling out. When the fishes back breaks the surface of the water, a signal is captured. They tracked Dolly Vardens in the Kenai River and discovered that they go out into Cook Inlet, swim south to Kasilof, and enter that river system. 

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Catmandoo
32 minutes ago, hiflier said:

Thought it might be good to see the software in action. These are not my uploaded videos: https://ufoid.net/ufo-videos

 

Should I guess that the camera set up is live view to a computer and the soft ware is contrast detection as a trigger for recording but does not track the object? There is no scale. Perfect UFO shot.

Away from home, lots of batteries needed for any length of time and the camera will get hot. At home,  you have an AC adapter for the camera. Is the camera outside or are you shooting through a window?

 

13 minutes ago, Huntster said:

 

ADFG now tracks several species with satellite gps sender/receivers, even fish.

 

Other agencies have tracked fish with similar approaches. Years ago, tuna were implanted with antenna. So long ago, I can't remember if it was radio or GPS.  The electronics were inserted in their anus and the antenna trailed out. I am not sure of the range and how the antenna worked with that low mount position.

Edited by Catmandoo
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