There’s No Sasquatch Conspiracy Afoot, Scientists Say

[Huntster]

3 minutes ago, Twist said:

Science states that BF does not exist. BF enthusiasts say that it does.........

 

And that statement illustrates the entire problem:

 

1) "Science" cannot and should not state that anything does or does not exist. As a method of learning, it's basic requirement is to study phenomenon. Sasquatchery exists. "Sasquatches" existed in the past ("Science" has already established that). The issue now is to explain sasquatchery. It is not only doing a horrible job of doing so, but as an industry and ideology, it is clearly guilty of extreme malpractice of the highest order. One simply has to look at the official (not academic) response to the publication of the PG film to see an example of that malpractice.

 

2) "Science" shouldn't even exist as an "entity". That may be a bit too deep for most to consider, so I'll simply say it in a way that a famous leader once did and leave it for another century of pain and misery to slowly realize; Beware the Science/Government complex.

 

 

........Maybe as a BF community we need to like within as to why this mystery is not solved.  We can and should point fingers at the government on the issue but we also need to realize fingers need to be pointed at us as well.    

 

We keep yelling there is smoke that should lead to a fire but we can’t reliably produce said smoke and get upset that they won’t acknowledge the fire.

 

As Roger Knights (one of my favorite sasquatch commentators who has disappeared) once wrote; One cannot expect the citizen to collar the crook while the police eat donuts in their squad cars, especially when vigilantism is expressly prohibited and aggressively prosecuted.

 

Sorry, I'm not going to passively allow somebody to blame me for failing to deliver a gift wrapped sasquatch to academia or the government while they aggressively insist that they don't exist, especially since I can fully expect to be criminally prosecuted for doing so while they proceed to ride into the ticker tape parade with the prize.

[BlobSquatch]

Afoot.......

[SWWASAS]

2 hours ago, Huntster said:

Sorry, I'm not going to passively allow somebody to blame me for failing to deliver a gift wrapped sasquatch to academia or the government while they aggressively insist that they don't exist, especially since I can fully expect to be criminally prosecuted for doing so while they proceed to ride into the ticker tape parade with the prize.

You have that exactly right.     If you bag a BF and if you are lucky get it to enough academics to examine it, that they all cannot be silenced,  the  Gov will show up,  claim it, and  probably dispute what the scientists determined the thing to be.     Meanwhile they likely would go after the shooter on some charge or the other and threaten the academics for being involved in illegal activity.     For all we know that scenario has already happened more than once.    

 

One thing I noticed in the Missing 411 Hunters film.      In two instances the FBI showed up to a missing persons search.     The Sheriff from that county said that is highly unusual.  They have no role in missing people searches unless it involves certain missing juveniles and kidnapping.     They just said they wanted to observe.     The Sheriff went on to say that when the FBI encounters circumstances similar to others they have seen,   and wish to expand their profiles,   they show up and observe.    Apparently the circumstances of missing hunters who vanish without a trace fit some sort of profile that the FBI considers concerning.   

Edited August 21, 2019 by SWWASAS

[RedHawk454]

I find it interesting that when the PG Film came out, science didnt give the species a chance.  And that was in 1967.  It looks believable today, and it prolly looked way more believable in 1967.  

 

maybe not a conspiracy/cover up/acknowledgment at the scientific level, but certain with levels of the federal government.  

[Huntster]

Let's review:

 

1) October of 1967. The PG film is produced. It culminated 9 years of sasquatchy events in the Bluff Creek area that had garnered lots of media attention, but absolutely no official recognition. None. Zero. Nil. Nada. Zip. Not a single official statement about the entire affair, from Jerry Crew through Patterson/Gimlin. Not then, not since, and not now, despite several re-examinations of the film by interested and qualified individuals as recently as Munns over the last several years, all of whom determine that it is not a man in a suit. This is not to mention the D.W. Grieve analysis of 1972 where he openly states that he might have to refuse to accept the film as genuine because of his emotional inability to accept the possibility that these creatures exist. This is also despite the fact that a USFS timber cruiser supervisor and crew were the first on the scene after the filming in 1967 and is credited with photographs of the footprints left by the subject of the film. He has subsequently stated his doubt based, not on the evidence of the film and the prints, but on the surprise of Patterson and Gimlin coming from Washington and getting what locals had failed to get. 

 

2) The environmental industry. Here's another curious entity who is strangely silent on this issue. These folks have found no creature too large or too smallto save, from blue whales to polar bears to marbled murrelets to snail darters to monarch butterflies. They are even party to and supporters of the federal protections for freaking sea gulls. And have they looked into this matter? Again, complete silence. Nothing. Zero. Nil. Nada. Zip. They are as quiet as government, their partner in the control of all things wild and free.

 

Coincidence? The two most vociferous and power hungry entities on Earth and in the history of Mankind? These two get their dictates into everything, including the control of human behaviors down to how much water a urinal can be manufactured to use per flush. And when a potential great ape so endangered as to be seen so infrequently, or even perhaps a relict hominid population, is regularly seen or leaves trace evidence, yet they utter not a peep?

 

Folks, I've gotta' admit, I'm a bit more than suspicious. Alarms are screaming at me like air raid sirens. I smell fire.

 

But there's more.......:

 

3) There was a participant on this forum (version 1.0) some time back. His moniker was Saskeptic. Nice guy. He claimed to be an academic bird biologist. Remarkably, his participation here coincided with the Ivory billed woodpecker fiasco, where the feds spent some $50 million.......essentially giving much of that money to academia to "study" the situation (Cornell University, to be exact), which helps illustrate my accusations of whoring by academia. We got nothing for that money, btw.

 

At any rate, this Saskeptic and I sparred back and forth over government's responsibility to respond to this sasquatch phenomenon just as they did to the woodpecker. Eventually, the guy started a thread outlining the symposium he created for government biologists warning them that people like me were out here wondering where they were, conducting discussion among them over how to respond, and suggesting to him that they ignore the threat, but be aware that it exists.

 

This forum member eventually left the forum and became active at the JREF, or now ISF forum (getting away from the now disgraced name of James Randi) putting the bad mouth on "footers". 

 

Hmmmmm...........

 

4) Now comes a New Age youngster with a blog on how there's no sasquatch cover up conspiracy. This comes as we increasingly discuss the possibility and review the past. It also comes as government at the highest levels are being cornered in political shenanigans never before exposed. Trust in government at all levels is at an all time low, and deservedly so. And who does this young lady interview? Government wildlife and habitat managers? Of course not! They remain completely silent and even unidentified. She gives us yet another bowl of b******t from the academic a******s. The guys waiting for somebody to bring them The Gift. For free. "Give us something to publish about!", they "profess". 

 

Yeah. No conspiracy here. A conspiracy requires thought. There's no evidence of that in academia. 

 

And in government? There's no evidence of anything whatsoever.........except secrecy...........

 

[SWWASAS]

Huntster  "The environmental industry. Here's another curious entity who is strangely silent on this issue. These folks have found no creature too large or too smallto save, from blue whales to polar bears to marbled murrelets to snail darters to monarch butterflies. They are even party to and supporters of the federal protections for freaking sea gulls. And have they looked into this matter? Again, complete silence. Nothing. Zero. Nil. Nada. Zip. They are as quiet as government, their partner in the control of all things wild and free."

 

 

The environmentalists are for the most part,  pretty bipolar in a lot of aspects.    They espouse support for clean air,  and urge avoidance of burning things that produce carbon dioxide, yet at the same time claim that letting forest fires burn is good for the forest.    The Forest Service ignores a fire until it gets big enough to threaten structures but preach the official line of global warming every chance they can.    Meanwhile people are charged to have their cars tested for emissions while one forest fire can produce more pollution that all the cars in the state produce in decades.     How can people that demonstrate that kind of logic be expected to deal with something of potentially great inconvenience to forest management?  They simply choose not to.  

[norseman]

4 hours ago, Twist said:

 

Science states that BF does not exist. BF enthusiasts say that it does.   The same enthusiasts point to report sightings throughout almost the entire US.  There are ones that claim to have evidence but withhold it for various reasons.  Some claim that in “inner circles” there are multiple clear and convincing photos.   Maybe as a BF community we need to like within as to why this mystery is not solved.  We can and should point fingers at the government on the issue but we also need to realize fingers need to be pointed at us as well.    

 

We keep yelling there is smoke that should lead to a fire but we can’t reliably produce said smoke and get upset that they won’t acknowledge the fire.

 

Yes and no.

 

Yes, there are things we could be doing to prove its existence. Clear photos will not convince science. But Bigfootdom still buys cameras and dental resin! Ive given up sounding the alarm.

 

No. We shouldnt have to shoot one if they are withholding evidence that they do indeed exist. The idea that its our claim therefore our problem isnt applicable then. Its their fire then and not ours. But we do see their smoke and they deny having a fire at all. 

[Twist]

Norse, do you believe that there are geneticist and/or primatologists out there that may be withholding information on BF for some reason?  

[Huntster]

2 hours ago, Twist said:

..........do you believe that there are geneticist and/or primatologists out there that may be withholding information on BF for some reason?  

 

Do you think there are geneticists out there that withheld information about Denisovans before 2008? After all, the genetic markers had to have been known by then. They now claim that between 4 and 6% of the genome of Melanesians (represented by the Papua New Guinean and Bougainville Islander) derives from a Denisovan population. It was only after they matched it to the finger bone in Denisova cave that they professed that it was Denisovan. But what were those markers called before 2008?

 

I have to admit that government has not been completely solent on this issue. They have admitted the truth:

 

https://www.fs.fed.us/features/loss-space-threatening-north-american-sasquatch

 

.........While most people believe this Ape Man to be a thing of folklore and urban legend, researcher Thaddeus Guttenberg, with the U.S. Forest Service Mythical Wildlife Division, recently confirmed that Bigfoot is as real as he is.

 

“We’ve been keeping its existence under wraps for years to protect its privacy,” said Guttenberg. “But because the country is losing more and more open space each day, we wanted to make it known that the habitat to one of America’s greatest legends may be at risk.”.......

[norseman]

2 hours ago, Twist said:

Norse, do you believe that there are geneticist and/or primatologists out there that may be withholding information on BF for some reason?  

 

I’m not a “knower”. So let’s pretend for a minute that we know for sure Bigfoot exists. But we have no idea what it is or where it came from.

 

Would the government take interest in an 800 lbs primate roaming its wildernesses? Yes.

 

Would the scientists that work for the government with top secret clearances stay silent? Absolutely. Or they may be instructed to put out disinformation.

 

The rest are fed the official cover story. And they parrot it. Any dissension in the ranks is quietly squashed or discredited as quackery.

 

Research Dr. J. Allen Hynek of PROJECT BLUE BOOK fame.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also look at the facts.

 

https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2015/03/worst-things-government-has-done-to-americans/gonorrhoea

 

Its not too hard to fathom that the government keeps secrets for very good reasons.

[hiflier]

I was going to comment in this thread but all you guys are doing great and the dialogue is so spot on I feel like you've been walking around in the neighborhood of my own mind. Great job! Everything in this thread is telling the story of why things are the way they are. Hammer a bit more on the high tech surveillance issues and I think the issue will really hit home. Did for me nearly two years back when thinking along such lines. Bring that to a head with regards to the OP Nest situation and you can see why I've been so hot on that trail and the reasoning behind my own dialogue on the matter. Especially since there's a state agency, a PhD, and a geneticist involved.

 

It's why I've said that something is way off with that whole thing. It's why initially sent out emails. There was no other choice available that I could see. A state agency, a PhD and a geneticist and we havn't heard a peep out of any of them since last December- eight months ago. It boggles the mind. I thank you all for your precise postings regarding the salient points of the problem and appreciate your deeper logical thinking WRT zeroing in on the factions responsible for the shutdown of information and feigned ignorance.

[Twist]

1 hour ago, norseman said:

 

I’m not a “knower”. So let’s pretend for a minute that we know for sure Bigfoot exists. But we have no idea what it is or where it came from.

 

Would the government take interest in an 800 lbs primate roaming its wildernesses? Yes.

 

Would the scientists that work for the government with top secret clearances stay silent? Absolutely. Or they may be instructed to put out disinformation.

 

The rest are fed the official cover story. And they parrot it. Any dissension in the ranks is quietly squashed or discredited as quackery.

 

Research Dr. J. Allen Hynek of PROJECT BLUE BOOK fame.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also look at the facts.

 

https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2015/03/worst-things-government-has-done-to-americans/gonorrhoea

 

Its not too hard to fathom that the government keeps secrets for very good reasons.

 

Norse, I asked the question the way I did in an attempt to open up dialogue about non governmental scientist.  I acknowledge that the government may have a conspiracy to hide BF.  I’m trying to discern  why there is a belief that privatized science would hide this kind of a discovery when doing so would make a scientist a household name like Goodall.   I acknowledged earlier in the thread I do not put it above the government to hide its existence.  

[hiflier]

I'll do a quick reply: No body. So it's professional suicide whether a scientist is private or not without physical proof. Dr. Meldrum's own fight within academia along with Krantz's and Bindernagel's says the problem is bigger than within just their own respective anthropology departments. And I would bet the administrators of those institutions know it. I couldn't begin to imagine the academic dialogue that has gone on behind the closed doors of those departments. I'll wager a ton was said back and forth regarding funding for those respective institutions.

[norseman]

8 minutes ago, Twist said:

 

Norse, I asked the question the way I did in an attempt to open up dialogue about non governmental scientist.  I acknowledge that the government may have a conspiracy to hide BF.  I’m trying to discern  why there is a belief that privatized science would hide this kind of a discovery when doing so would make a scientist a household name like Goodall.   I acknowledged earlier in the thread I do not put it above the government to hide its existence.  

 

We are counting on people like Meldrum as scientists who take this subject seriously. But look at the ridicule they face. And look how jaded he is when discussing government agencies. I.e. One forest service office secretly kept a list of sighting reports and called people back on unofficial lines. He is a super small minority.

 

Again with the UFO parallel but it’s a valid point. Prof. Hynek would investigate UFO sighting and explain them away with “logic and reason” and then close the case. He was just following USAF protocol. It had nothing to do with science. His contemporaries in science not working for the government would all nod their heads in agreement with him. No one was going to dare step out of line and be ridiculed about “little green men”.

 

Back to Bigfoot.... I think there is something about Bigfoot that doesn’t allow it to fit the Chimpanzee/Goodall paradigm. I suspect with the 411 books that Bigfoot may prey on or kidnap humans. And the government doesn’t want to admit that it lacks control and also that it doesn’t want to take responsibility for not warning people. Maybe Bigfoot is just a tribe of giant Indians that were never subjugated to our authority and is a giant embarrassment? IDK.

 

Which is the same thing as not wanting to admit that it lacks control of our airspace. And a UFO could land in your yard and there isn’t anything they can do about it. It may abduct people and there is nothing they can do about it. 

 

But a whistle blower did come forward and we now know that UFO’s do exist. What or who they are? We don’t know. We don’t even know if they are alien or not. Maybe it’s a top secret government program that the government wants us to think is alien.

 

All of it is kinda scary to think about. 

[Huntster]

1 hour ago, Twist said:

........I acknowledge that the government may have a conspiracy to hide BF.  I’m trying to discern  why there is a belief that privatized science would hide this kind of a discovery when doing so would make a scientist a household name like Goodall.....

 

For the record, I've also acknowledged that (as was stated in the article) academic scientists would "run over their mothers" to publish on sasquatchery.

 

Now, I've also been trying to pound the point home for, oh, twenty years or so that academic science is well below the clueless point regarding this phenomenon, and they will remain there until somebody delivers a gift wrapped sasquatch to them. 

 

Then, as one of them has so clearly stated, they will promptly run over your hapless a$$.

 

But, really, why bother with them? As events have proven, they have been fully feckless with regard to this issue for at least 61 years, if we start the clock running with Jerry Crews, who built a fully functioning road for academia to drive right up to ground zero.......yet they were complete no-shows, even after Patterson and Gimlin brought them movie footage of one who left footprints matching some of the prints found and casted over the previous nine years by other people.

 

So who needs them? To "publish" with the proper punctuation, accreditation, and pomp?

 

F**k 'em. If you're going to get unceremoniously run over, may as well get run over by El Jefe. It's long past time to light a nice, hot fire under some posh USFS office chairs, among other similar furnishings.......as hot and warming as those under the deep state administration chairs in The Swamp right now. The "professors" are useless.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Huntster