Missing 411

[Hoekler73]

On 12/7/2021 at 9:08 AM, wiiawiwb said:

Somewhere along the timeline, if suffering from heat exhaustion and water was nearby (1 mile away?), I'd die try heading back to it rather than perish sitting in the heat.  Weren't they found with some water left in their backpack? Wouldn't you utilize all of your water before allowing yourself to succumb to heat exhausion?

 

There is almost nothing about this story that makes sense to me. 

I don't have a definitive answer for what happened to this family, but I do have some experience with people suffering from heat exhaustion.

 

While hiking in the addironack mountains, a friend became dehydrated and overheated quickly. Due to hear exhaustion, this individual began to become confused and couldn't fend for himself. Had we not gone and filtered water from a nearby stream and brought it to him, he may well have gotten worse or even died without medical attention and fluids.

 

Perhaps the family while suffering from dehydration and heat exhaustion simply made one to many mistakes, resulting in their fatalities. Not an airtight explanation, but it could be one factor.

[wiiawiwb]

Thankfully, in your friend's case, you came to his rescue and left to get water that was desperately needed by him.  If dehydration was this couple's ultimate demise, I would have expected either the husband or wife to have made the decision to go back a mile to get water or die trying. Also, if memory serves me, wasn't there water remaining in either the wife or husband'sbackpack?

 

We'll probably never know what happened.

[VAfooter]

On 12/16/2021 at 6:46 PM, WSA said:

Of course, I think the "feral people" observations, if they are observations, come from those trying to make sense of a furtive, unkempt bipedal creature. The idea that H.Sapiens are living undetected in the Park somewhere is pretty implausible to me.  

 

Not sure they were undetected, just that they were living in the forest somewhere. And if that forest is within walking distance of a town, then I can see it being true. Stay out there, get less harassment than in town.

[WSA]

Oh, granted. People living remotely and low profile happen. I am just a little skeptical of hidden bands of backwoods people, like some kind of lost Amazon tribe, avoiding contact and living completely off the land. Takes a Squatch-level critter to pull that off!

[MIB]

^^^^ In 2011 the 2nd night we had camp visitors, I went down a long list of options trying to find something other than bigfoot that fit what I was hearing.    Ishi crossed my mind.   The holes in that idea were it was so dark that I could not see the trees in camp but whatever was coming in .. fast .. could be heard to shift it's course to the right and to the left to avoid them.    It had soft bottomed feet, not hard soled shoes or hooves, because the feet thumped on the ground, they didn't crunch and grind the "gravel" as our shoes had done and as the deer in camp had done during daylight.    The steps were "slow" but the distance was being covered quickly with no indications of running.    So we've got an "Ishi" wearing moccasins, with night vision goggles, apparently with a 60 inch or longer step length.   "Hmmmm."

 

While it wasn't as imagined at the time, I'm not sure the crazy guess of "feral people" was wrong if you make the distinction between feral PEOPLE (behavior) and feral HUMAN (species).    That was a thinking thing out there.   That thing was experimenting deliberately trying various things to test my responses.    I was the rat in the maze that night.

 

MIB

[WSA]

Right, my working hypothesis about BF is that they ARE a variety of feral humans...at least some of them are... almost genetically identical to H. sapiens, but so supremely adapted to the natural world, and behaviorally divergent, so as to be perceived as a separate species.  

[MIB]

20 minutes ago, WSA said:

Right, my working hypothesis about BF is that they ARE a variety of feral humans...at least some of them are... almost genetically identical to H. sapiens, but so supremely adapted to the natural world, and behaviorally divergent, so as to be perceived as a separate species.  

 

When we get into genus Homo, it seems like the normal rules for what "species" means morphs.   If our ancestors and neanderthals and denisovans could produce viable offspring, we're not separate species, we're separate subspecies.   We're genetically as different as different kinds of corn or different kinds of tulips or different breeds of dogs, it's not corn vs tulips or dogs vs cats.

 

That said, I'm inclined to agree with you.   Those old DNA samples presumed to be contaminated human or degraded human .. my guess is a lot weren't.   I think those samples were good enough to have separated human from chimp for example.    People doing the testing / paying for the testing were looking for something akin to an African ape .. orang, gorilla, or chimp .. and weren't ready to accept that DNA 98% towards human on the piece of the scale separating human from chimp, which already were 98% similar .. at least in the sections that are tested to identify species .. could be correct.  

 

[hiflier]

16 minutes ago, WSA said:

Right, my working hypothesis about BF is that they ARE a variety of feral humans...at least some of them are...

 

Except the ones that grunt when taking a hit from a 30.06, drop to their knees, and then get up and run away? I would have to say that in none of the 82 instances where a supposed BF had been shot did it drop like one would expect a Human to, feral or not. Are there feral Humans? Maybe. But IMHO, I'm seeing the feral Human idea becoming more and more a catch all term to dilute the fact that there are enormously large, bipedal, fully haired, very muscular, very fast, and sometimes tree shaking scary to simply default to feral Human. Folks ask for proof of the Sasquatch, where does one go, beside the Wiki, to prove feral Humans? NOT hermits, or homeless, but truly feral Humans. Feral Humans that do what in the winter in, say Minnesota? Or the heat and humidity of the south? What about wildfires and floods? Are there no feral Humans coming out of those conditions to be taken away by fire crews or even wildlife managers who no doubt show up during such calamities?

[hiflier]

2 minutes ago, MIB said:

 

When we get into genus Homo, it seems like the normal rules for what "species" means morphs.   If our ancestors and neanderthals and denisovans could produce viable offspring, we're not separate species, we're separate subspecies.   We're genetically as different as different kinds of corn or different kinds of tulips or different breeds of dogs, it's not corn vs tulips or dogs vs cats.

 

That said, I'm inclined to agree with you.   Those old DNA samples presumed to be contaminated human or degraded human .. my guess is a lot weren't.   I think those samples were good enough to have separated human from chimp for example.    People doing the testing / paying for the testing were looking for something akin to an African ape .. orang, gorilla, or chimp .. and weren't ready to accept that DNA 98% towards human on the piece of the scale separating human from chimp, which already were 98% similar .. at least in the sections that are tested to identify species .. could be correct.  

 

 

Like this...A LOT, and agree Placing the Sasquatch in the primate line isn't easy. But I do think it owns an evolutionary window in that 6-7 million years between us and Chimps.

[WSA]

Hiflier...I'm not sure you can draw any conclusions about speciation based on ability to withstand gunfire. Size does matter in that department, of course, so they would tend to have an automatic advantage in that department, I assume. Don't you agree?  

[WSA]

 

MIB...I always say about putative Sasquatch DNA testing results, "Don't blame the data".   Sasquatch being a (much) more robust version of H. sapiens is well within the boundaries of knows inter-species differentiation.  Stand a Great Dane and Chihuahua next to each other and think how unlikely it would be for a person who didn't know to conclude at a glance that they are of the same species.

[MIB]

WSA -

 

There are 2 considerations (IMHO) ..

 

1) The DNA that isn't quite human is a very common thread.   The explanations of environmental degradation, something else but strongly human contaminated, etc all try to pigeonhole the results, but the common thread is it is NOT just simple, identifiable human DNA, it requires an excuse of some sort for not quite matching.

 

2) I look at the reports of abducted native women returning pregnant with either a baby that won't quite carry to term or a baby that is born deformed and dies.   I think that points to a barely-hybridization situation, something that is only very slightly still viable for life and not viable to reproduce.  

 

These are things in the report data that I can't entirely let go of.   Inconvenient truths, or if that seems too strong, at least inconveniently recurring data points I can't set aside without stronger reason than I have to work from right now.

 

MIB

[Huntster]

2 hours ago, hiflier said:

Except the ones that grunt when taking a hit from a 30.06, drop to their knees, and then get up and run away? I would have to say that in none of the 82 instances where a supposed BF had been shot did it drop like one would expect a Human to, feral or not.........

 

There were provably many thousands of Wehrmacht soldiers who grunted after taking a hit from a 30-06 during the 1940's, then got up and ran away.

 

Quote

........Are there feral Humans? Maybe. But IMHO, I'm seeing the feral Human idea becoming more and more a catch all term to dilute the fact that there are enormously large, bipedal, fully haired, very muscular, very fast, and sometimes tree shaking scary to simply default to feral Human.........

 

Not only us it provable that there are feral humans, but we are currently breeding them at an incredibly astonishing rate. There are literally millions of semi-feral people living on the streets of our cities and sneaking into our country across the southwest deserts at night, then hiding from law enforcement in plain sight. And we're to doubt that they're hiding in the mountains? 

 

Indeed, an almost certain almasty in Abkhazia has been recently proven scientifically to have been a feral person, size, strength, and hairiness included.......unless you doubt the "science" (and I wouldn't blame you if you did).

 

Quote

.......Folks ask for proof of the Sasquatch, where does one go, beside the Wiki, to prove feral Humans? NOT hermits, or homeless, but truly feral Humans. Feral Humans that do what in the winter in, say Minnesota? Or the heat and humidity of the south? What about wildfires and floods? Are there no feral Humans coming out of those conditions to be taken away by fire crews or even wildlife managers who no doubt show up during such calamities?

 

The reading I'm finding about feral children is absolutely astounding. I can only assume what such children who survive to adulthood might be like. But I admit that they're about as rare as a sasquatch. 

 

Hey! Imagine that!..........

[hiflier]

50 minutes ago, Huntster said:

Indeed, an almost certain almasty in Abkhazia has been recently proven scientifically to have been a feral person, size, strength, and hairiness included.......unless you doubt the "science" (and I wouldn't blame you if you did).

 

I do. Why? Because the world isn't allowed to have extant Sasquatches.

Edited December 20, 2021 by hiflier

[MIB]

^^^^ I've changed my mind on Zana.   At one time I assumed almasty as that's the way the story seemed to go in the bigfoot publications. 

 

I don't think so anymore.    I'm inclined to go with the science.   I suspect .. coming from the trailing end of a folklore society .. that the stories of Zana were embellished through retelling.    I think it most likely than she was a modern human of sub saharan african descent, probably a child of escaped slave parents.   I doubt she was quite as fast, as durable, or as big as legend says.    For about 15 months I dated a woman who was 6'3" .. bleach blonde, no almasty in her either.  

 

I think Zana is a dead end and useless distraction so far as bigfoot goes.   Wishful thinking but nope.    Interesting in her own right, interesting so far as our own modern human history, but of no purpose so far as proving anything about relict hominids.   I wish it were otherwise but wishing it doesn't make it so.

 

MIB