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hiflier

Ah yes, and Virginia and elsewhere have quite a crop as well in the Shenandoah NF region. The map below is almost 25 years old so I'm sure ranges could be even greater today.

recent_black_bear_range.jpg.f23af4550b1228f43b2a4938f194f9a2.jpg

Edited by hiflier

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Twist

They come a lot farther South in Michigan I can say for sure.   Been spotted down almost as low as the MI/IN border.    
 

My buddy was just showing me some great trail cam pics he got 2 weeks ago of a black bear at his place in Mid Michigan.  He was a big boy.  

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bipedalist
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The density of black bear in Eastern NC rivals that in the mountainous western part of the state if not even greater in places which surprises some people.  I can see where the scarcity of food could move grizzly into new areas but probably not like a mountain lion wandering.  I can also see why F&G officials might not want to advertise too much.  Hi-tech satellite and cell systems are nice but expensive.  The whole of western NC should be green on that hiflier posted black bear map at least West of Hickory, NC in my mind. 

Edited by bipedalist

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hiflier

Thanks for the update, Twist :) And yes, bipedalist, I agree. As I said in my post:

 

57 minutes ago, hiflier said:

The map below is almost 25 years old so I'm sure ranges could be even greater today.

 

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BlackRockBigfoot
16 minutes ago, bipedalist said:

The density of black bear in Eastern NC rivals that in the mountainous western part of the state if not even greater in places which surprises some people.  I can see where the scarcity of food could move grizzly into new areas but probably not like a mountain lion wandering.  I can also see why F&G officials might not want to advertise too much.  Hi-tech satellite and cell systems are nice but expensive.  The whole of western NC should be green on that hiflier posted black bear map at least West of Hickory, NC in my mind. 

Western North Carolina and Upstate South Carolina are THICK with black bear.  They are having a population boom, it seems.

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NathanFooter
23 hours ago, NatFoot said:

 

It's the old ..."there's evidence out there but no one wants to share it" discussion.

 

If this Dennis guy doesn't care to prove existence and just wants to learn about the creatures...then why take video evidence and then share it only in person?

 

I guess to drum up business for expeditions. That's a shame.

 

 I know Dennis, we met in New Mexico last year. 

 

The footage was taken during his time working for Erickson, the intended documentary stalled out as the money dried up during the 08 market crash.  Public release may happen one day should a documentary get rolling again. 

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hiflier

Funding in this subject seems to "dry up" a lot. To the point that it makes me wonder why funding was ever initiated on anything in the first place. Didn't the investors know that there was never going to be any possibility for payback? We're they really that naïve?

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starchunk
1 hour ago, Twist said:

They come a lot farther South in Michigan I can say for sure.   Been spotted down almost as low as the MI/IN border.    
 

My buddy was just showing me some great trail cam pics he got 2 weeks ago of a black bear at his place in Mid Michigan.  He was a big boy.  

 

That was my point, the "ranges" are not a static line, they never were. As food sources shift, human pressures and all of that, so do the ranges. A species will either move on or adapt to changing conditions much like you see in sub urbanized bears in jersey for example.

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NatFoot
25 minutes ago, hiflier said:

Funding in this subject seems to "dry up" a lot. To the point that it makes me wonder why funding was ever initiated on anything in the first place. Didn't the investors know that there was never going to be any possibility for payback? We're they really that naïve?

 

That or once the footage is seen, it is deemed as not good enough for an investment?

 

I wouldn't think shooting a BF documentary these days would be all that expensive but I'm obviously not an expert. The cameras and tech we have readily available now since 2008 would make it much less costly I'd think.

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NathanFooter
On 12/9/2019 at 1:29 PM, BlackRockBigfoot said:

Yeah, but they don't cost $500 a head to run one. 

 

From their website:

"BFRO expedition organizers bring participants to areas where they will have encounters with Bigfoots at night."

 

 

Key word WILL.  

 

Regardless of how the BFRO started out, it's a snake oil franchise now. It is selling the promise of an experience to people who are willing to pony up $500.  Anyone here who has spent time in the field knows how sporadic activity is...even in a hot spot.  People pay 5 bills for encounters, they are going to expect encounters.  If real encounters don't occur frequently enough, is the BFRO just going to say "Sorry.  No refunds!". Or are they going to make sure that the participants get their moneys worth..one way or another?  

 

No matter what their intentions starting out, the BFRO is an entertainment company now.  Not research.

 

 They cost a great deal actually,  think about it.     Investigators spend sometimes months ( even years ) going out investigating eye witness reports, scouting/surveying areas, conducting internal BFRO trips, clearing out old logging roads for additional access, driving hundreds of miles of back-country,  purchasing gear/ equipment, putting together presentations and of course taxes. This does not touch all of time we invest in emails, forum management/QA, legal paperwork, individual communications and accommodations. 

 

 I don't want to post the same thing a million times in other threads but I encourage you to read my previous related comments here.

https://bigfootforums.com/topic/65278-implications-of-apparent-consistency-of-evidence/page/10/?tab=comments#comment-1041825

 

 Also from the website. 

 

BFROstuff.JPG

 

 I can agree that there is plenty of room for criticism of the group and some of those associated but it is not accurate to say that the group is a big suckers parade, I have personally co-organized 2 of these such outings and I came away with very little for it with the exception of good conversation around a campfire.  

Edited by NathanFooter
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NatFoot
47 minutes ago, NathanFooter said:

 

 I know Dennis, we met in New Mexico last year. 

 

The footage was taken during his time working for Erickson, the intended documentary stalled out as the money dried up during the 08 market crash.  Public release may happen one day should a documentary get rolling again. 

 

What did you think of the footage? Pretty good?

 

Would love to see it some day.

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NathanFooter
5 minutes ago, NatFoot said:

 

What did you think of the footage? Pretty good?

 

Would love to see it some day.

 

 I have not gotten the chance to see it myself. 

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SWWASAS
On 12/9/2019 at 10:05 AM, hiflier said:

 

 

I might agree, SWWASAS, but she has six children and has been in the field in some pretty wild places. Plus she was an NFL cheerleader in her earlier life. My guess is she can handle herself but any advances wouldn't be welcome nonetheless. I'm thinking it probably didn't happen. One thing in their favor, or anyone's favor for that matter, is that there are supposedly 8 episodes in the same general region.

 

At this time someone really does not have to do anything to make someone uncomfortable.     Dr  Major likely only agreed to doing the show if she had a major say.    She is essential for any credibility.   It was obvious that something happened, and since only she and RPG were together to interact, it had to have been something involving one or both of them.   Perhaps it was as simple as he is prone to altitude sickness and never mentioned it to the producers.   I know I would not want to spend three weeks at altitude with the woman I mentioned who is prone to altitude sickness.    You would have to spend all of your time dealing with that issue rather than the objectives of being in the field.    Perhaps the show will reveal the problem in another episode since people are wondering like we are.     

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starchunk
23 minutes ago, NathanFooter said:

 

 They cost a great deal actually,  think about it.     Investigators spend sometimes months ( even years ) going out investigating eye witness reports, scouting/surveying areas, conducting internal BFRO trips, clearing out old logging roads for additional access, driving hundreds of miles of back-country,  purchasing gear/ equipment, putting together presentations and of course taxes. This does not touch all of time we invest in emails, forum management/QA, legal paperwork, individual communications and accommodations. 

 

 I don't want to post the same thing a million times in other threads but I encourage you to read my previous related comments here.

https://bigfootforums.com/topic/65278-implications-of-apparent-consistency-of-evidence/page/10/?tab=comments#comment-1041825

 

 Also from the website. 

 

BFROstuff.JPG

 

 I can agree that there is plenty of room for criticism of the group and some of those associated but it is not accurate to say that the group is a big suckers parade, I have personally co-organized 2 of these such outings and I came away with very little for it with the exception of good conversation around a campfire.  

 

 

Its an entertainment and tour company then, it is how how they operator, not all the Researchers, but at the Top Level they certainly are.

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BlackRockBigfoot
16 minutes ago, NathanFooter said:

 

 They cost a great deal actually,  think about it.     Investigators spend sometimes months ( even years ) going out investigating eye witness reports, scouting/surveying areas, conducting internal BFRO trips, clearing out old logging roads for additional access, driving hundreds of miles of back-country,  purchasing gear/ equipment, putting together presentations and of course taxes. This does not touch all of time we invest in emails, forum management/QA, legal paperwork, individual communications and accommodations. 

 

 I don't want to post the same thing a million times in other threads but I encourage you to read my previous related comments here.

https://bigfootforums.com/topic/65278-implications-of-apparent-consistency-of-evidence/page/10/?tab=comments#comment-1041825

 

 Also from the website. 

 

BFROstuff.JPG

 

 I can agree that there is plenty of room for criticism of the group and some of those associated but it is not accurate to say that the group is a big suckers parade, I have personally co-organized 2 of these such outings and I came away with very little for it with the exception of good conversation around a campfire.  

Sorry, but we will have to agree to disagree on this topic.  

 

Matt Moneymaker is quoted in the book 'Monster Trek' as saying that the cost is that high so that they can weed out the people who are 'not serious'.  So, are the fees so high for the huge expense or to weed out the undesirables?

 

I am not debating that there may not be some good people involved, but you are telling me that you walked away with no money after organizing two of these outings.  So, where did the money go to?  Equipment?   Are they paying the expenses of their investigators?  

 

People are free to spend their money how they wish.  If it doesn't break my leg or pick my pocket, they are free to do as they wish.  However, let's just call it what it is.  It's entertainment.  If those same people were encouraged to take that money and spend it on research and equipment, then go out and actually look themselves...then there might actually be some movement on the study of this phenomenon.  Grass roots and regional efforts are always going to be more effective than a for-profit group.

 

The BFRO is an entertainment endeavor.  If people want to spend money on it in order to feel like they are a part of something greater, so be it.  People do that all the time with televangelists and mega-churches.  

 

 

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