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georgerm

Why can't we find and study Bigfoot?

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Sasfooty

They have been "found & studied", but the findings have been ridiculed, labeled "too much woo", rejected, & swept under the rug. The people who "found" it are labeled as hoaxers, incompetent, and/or lunatics, then it's back to "Why can't we find them?"

 

There's an ELEPHANT in the room! Why can't it be seen?

 

I think that the majority of us haven't been ready  to see, but it seems that as the "veil" gets thinner, the blurry Sasquatch is becoming more clear. Maybe "discovery" is closer than we think. The findings are beginning to be taken a little more seriously, even though the woo is still there. Soon, maybe the woo will be recognized as merely better use of the brain.....

 

Here's a good video in which Dr. Igor Burtsev shares some of his recent findings from the US. There's also some discussion about the Ketchum study. I found it very much worth watching.

 

 

 

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SWWASAS
18 hours ago, hiflier said:

 

 

Like you said:

 

 

Looks like you could be correct in that :) Thank you. Question for you, the stick notwithstanding, would those four gouge marks at the left of the hole bear claw marks?

Does    not matter if it is bear claw.    Bears do not use sticks to dip for termites that I know of.  It was likely the bears interest that got the BF interested in dipping.     Bears commonly tear rotting logs apart to get their termites.  Sadly that find was several years ago  (Jan 22,  2016) before the area went inactive due to clear cutting.      However as I mentioned that behavior of using sticks to dip for termites is likely common where BF is present.    I saw that, took the picture,  and a few visits later got zapped at the location so forgot all about the stick find until reminded by the chimpanzee study.     As I said before I would have no idea where to likely find DNA.     But seeing this and knowing about the chimpanzee study,   I know know exactly what to look for.     I will put together a DNA sample kit using the protocols in the chimpanzee study to minimize the chance of contamination with my own DNA.     ( I just had a chuckle writing this.    Should my DNA contaminate the sample they will be scratching their heads as to how my 3 percent Neanderthal DNA got into the  Pacific Northwest woods.   As strange as science is about bigfoot they would more likely decide that Neanderthal  is roaming the Pacific Northwest than bigfoot is.)   

 

This is a description of the collection protocols from the Chimpanzee study:   

"Thirty termite mounds were monitored three to four times weekly for chimpanzee activity. All new termite-fishing probes that were abandoned in situ where they had been inserted into a mound were collected for DNA analyses. Each tool was collected using a new pair of gloves. A 5 cm segment of the end of the tool that was inserted for fishing was cut using scissors sterilized with bleach and ethanol between each use and preserved in 5 ml of RNA later (Life Technologies). Faecal samples were collected from within the Issa chimpanzee study area between 2009 and 2012. They were collected from trails when tracking chimpanzee parties, or from beneath chimpanzee night nests, and preserved in an equal volume of RNAlater.

All samples were kept frozen at -18°C on site in a solar powered DC freezer (Model number ARB, 47L), before shipment at room temperature. Termite tools were shipped to the University of Cambridge in January 2015 and stored at -20°C, whilst chimpanzee faeces were shipped several times yearly to the University of Pennsylvania and stored at -80°C."

 

Looks like I am going to have to get a little freezer.   RNA later is available from the manufacturer.   Looks like anyone that intends to take DNA samples should have some on hand.  

 

Invitrogen RNAlater Stabilization Solution is an aqueous, nontoxic tissue storage reagent that rapidly permeates tissues to stabilize and protect cellular RNA. RNAlater solution minimizes the need to immediately process tissue samples or to freeze samples in liquid nitrogen for later processing. Tissue pieces can be harvested and submerged in RNAlater solution for storage without jeopardizing the quality or quantity of RNA obtained after subsequent RNA isolation.

Edited by SWWASAS
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hiflier
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14 minutes ago, SWWASAS said:

Does    not matter if it is bear claw.    Bears do not use sticks to dip for termites that I know of.  It was likely the bears interest that got the BF interested in dipping.     Bears commonly tear rotting logs apart to get their termites

 

Absolutely TRUE!

 

15 minutes ago, SWWASAS said:

As I said before I would have no idea where to likely find DNA.     But seeing this and knowing about the chimpanzee study,   I know know exactly what to look for

 

True again.

 

16 minutes ago, SWWASAS said:

I will put together a DNA sample kit using the protocols in the chimpanzee study to minimize the chance of contamination with my own DNA.

 

Maybe you could bring how you did that here? I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who would be interested to know the details of that.

 

17 minutes ago, SWWASAS said:

( I just had a chuckle writing this.    Should my DNA contaminate the sample they will be scratching their heads as to how my 3 percent Neanderthal DNA got into the  Pacific Northwest woods.   As strange as science is about bigfoot they would more likely decide that Neanderthal  is roaming the Pacific Northwest than bigfoot is.)

 

:lol:LMAO! This is absolutely hysterical, SWWASAS. Still smiling on that one. I need to say something here, though, I can't express how glad I am to see how fully you have gotten the most important points behind this concept. In the beginning everything was pretty muddy for me because I hadn't given myself enough time to process the possibilities and how it could work for BF discovery. Then one day it all became so unbelievably clear and easy to grasp. The potential is enormous when seriously considered. There are still some loose ends to shore up and I hope I will again be able to speak again with my scientist friend. Sooner than later would be ideal.

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norseman
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20 hours ago, SWWASAS said:

Things are even better than you know.    I have observed a stick stuck in a crevice in a rotting log. I used to have a picture of it.    Apparently BF in my research area were using the stick as tool to get termites.    If so they were licking the end of the stick and would be leaving DNA just like the chimpanzees in the study.    Nothing I am aware of other than racoons are likely to use a stick as a termite tool.    Takes a hand to manipulate a stick as a tool.    I noticed it because I left it in the log and when I returned to the area it had been moved but not removed from the log.    Apparently the BF just left it there so it did not have to look for another when it wanted a termite snack.   Here is the stick still in the rotting log.    There is your DNA!    If BF were doing it there they likely are other places.     Something that has been licked jump way up as a possible source of DNA.    If there are kits they can be purchased.   

IMG_1056.JPG


I do not think that log has a active termite nest in it.

 

It looks like a very old punky Cedar log. Some one has cut a 90 degree notch into the left side along time ago.  I do not see any termites. And I don’t see any fresh sawdust or dung. If termites were there it was a long time ago. Besides, pacific damp wood termites colonies are small compared to subterranean termites like you would see in Africa. There isn’t one giant entrance into a large chamber. So what would be the purpose of the stick? You would be better off breaking off a chunk of log and picking out the individual termites. And they are large like 3/4 of an inch long.

42237279-7EF2-4BBD-9368-64678CD3315C.jpeg

F3652410-1E6A-4B74-AD6E-710CB4CB5EE9.jpeg

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SWWASAS

Something or someone inserted the stick.   There is over a foot of it inside the log out of the picture.    If it was BF it is likely being done someplace else where termites or ants are active.    BF is not known for creativity.   If they did this with the intent to get termites they likely do it elsewhere.   This wood is part of the Yacult Burn of 1912.   There is a huge area of down and burned wood.  It was likely cut for a fire break since a road is nearby.     The cut part shows charring too.    Whether or not the log has termites,   it would be highly unlikely that there are BF in the area now 4 years after I found the stick.   DNA if any would be highly degraded.  

Edited by SWWASAS

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Catmandoo
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Stick Insertion 101:  apples vs ants / termites.  Ant and termite mounds / nests emit gas that gives the location up to predators.   The human approach to gifting has a lot of visual clues.  The following old post is an example of stick removal force requiring  7 to 13 lbs horizontal pull force.  No bird (Raven) beak marks or other animal mouth marks were on the stick. Stick is in my freezer.  This brings up questions of opposable thumb and right or left handed?

Catmandoo

  • Yowie
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  • Catmandoo
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What is taking your gift items? Can you test for opposing digits?   Yes you can.

I had a test 'stump' in a clearcut where items were vacuumed away in less than 12 hours. I would camp about 1,000 feet away with terrain blocking my view. View blockage by design.  No humans got past me.  The heartwood of the stumo was rotted away. I would load up the cavity with 4--5 apples. Gala and Braeburn. Biggest birds in the area were Ravens. If birds visited the stump, which was 42" in diameter, bird poop would be visible.  To test for method of removal, I punctured  one apple with a piece of the stump that was about 7" long. Loaded the stump with apples so that the test apple was underneath 2 top apples. The top surface of the lowest apple was about 11" below the deck of the stump. The apples disappeared and the stick was placed on the top of the stump. No sign of beak or teeth marks on the stick. The stick was always inserted 2" into the apple core. I set up a pull test to determine how much force is required to remove the stick. Using a Chatillon scale, # IN-015M, which has a capacity of 15lbs X 4oz, I did horizontal pull testing on site. Gala apples had the lowest values and Braeburn the highest. Extraction force was 7 to 13 lbs. The apples were fresh, kept in a cooler. After all, you need to be able to eat your research sometimes!  Everything stopped when I put up a trail camera.

 

I know how much forum members like red circles so I added a set. The red circles are around a hole in the stump where a shrew would appear. It was freaked out. During my time at the stump, I did not tame the shrew.

IMG_0051 -1.jpg

 

The stump, 42" in diameter.

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The insertion stick. I have it in my freezer.

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No teeth or beak marks. I always use gloves to try to minimize my scent.  However, my hands sweat so I do 'drip'.

IMG_0047 - 1.jpg

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Sometimes I set up with the end of the stick flush to the top of the stump. Pay no attention to the blue gloved hand.

IMG_0054 - 1.jpg

Edited February 19, 2019 by Catmandoo
Edited by Catmandoo
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norseman
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2 hours ago, SWWASAS said:

Something or someone inserted the stick.   There is over a foot of it inside the log out of the picture.    If it was BF it is likely being done someplace else where termites or ants are active.    BF is not known for creativity.   If they did this with the intent to get termites they likely do it elsewhere.   This wood is part of the Yacult Burn of 1912.   There is a huge area of down and burned wood.  It was likely cut for a fire break since a road is nearby.     The cut part shows charring too.    Whether or not the log has termites,   it would be highly unlikely that there are BF in the area now 4 years after I found the stick.   DNA if any would be highly degraded.  


 

Did you attempt to use the stick to fish for termites? 

 

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Nipissing
On 2/9/2020 at 10:49 PM, 7.62 said:

Exactly but not real ones .

Life like realistic little children mannequins where you could rig up to move a little just like a moving target or moving decoy .

Have a recording of crying children , laughing children that you can control .

 

If there is any more nightmare-inducing mental image than robotic child mannequins moving around in the bush, it would need Stephen King to top it.

 

@Catmandoo your apple experiment is fantastic; thank you for crossposting it.

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Lam90

Is anyone else imagining an entertaining Bigfoot sequel to the Chucky films?? 

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Huntster
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1 hour ago, Lam90 said:

Is anyone else imagining an entertaining Bigfoot sequel to the Chucky films?? 

 

No, but a top quality drama/adventure based on the Patterson/Gimlin event, complete with a beginning that re-enacts the 1958-1967 regional events as well as the 1967-1972 period could be a big hit, especially with Gimlin still alive. There are plenty of documentaries. Don't need another one of those.

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Catmandoo
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10 hours ago, Nipissing said:

@Catmandoo your apple experiment is fantastic; thank you for crossposting it.

 

In the near future I have planned a fun test.  I made large acrylic 'handles' to insert into apples in an attempt to get thumb, finger and perhaps palm prints.  'Grime scene' prints would be simply a fun exercise. Apples are very expensive in my area. I have tried to get 'old' apples from grocery stores but the apples are donated to food banks very quickly.  Braeburn apples. In tests, I have gone with red colored  more than green apples. 

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norseman
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3 minutes ago, Catmandoo said:

 

Braeburn apples. In tests, I have gone with red colored  more than green apples. 


Hmmmmm.....

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hiflier
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14 minutes ago, Catmandoo said:

 

In the near future I have planned a fun test.  I made large acrylic 'handles' to insert into apples in an attempt to get thumb, finger and perhaps palm prints.  'Grime scene' prints would be simply a fun exercise. Apples are very expensive in my area. I have tried to get 'old' apples from grocery stores but the apples are donated to food banks very quickly.  Braeburn apples. In tests, I have gone with red colored  more than green apples. 

 

Like the idea a LOT. As you know, DNA can now be extracted from two day old fingerprints. So, test away, my friend and keep those wheels of your turning :) 

Edited by hiflier

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Catmandoo
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^^^^ I am familiar with dry ice and liquid nitrogen. I don't have a dewar  for liquid nitrogen yet. I modified my vehicle to transport and store cryogenic materials without killing myself. I would not recommend cryogenic materials for those who are not trained. Liquid nitrogen is my favorite to get things "deep space cold' (joke) and making those 1950's sci-fi effects spooky ground fogs.

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SWWASAS
20 hours ago, norseman said:


 

Did you attempt to use the stick to fish for termites? 

 

I extracted the stick to see how far it was inserted into the log.   I did not see anything sticking to it.    I wonder if chimps spit on the stick when they probe?  What would cause the termite to adhere to the stick?       I initially thought if was just a freaky situation where the wind blew it in there.    But ruled that out when I discovered how much was inside the log.  I like to leave things as I find them so I pushed it as far in as it would go and left it.   The log being as old as it was was getting pretty rotten but like you say,   I did not see signs of termites.       It is pretty accessible and when I am in the area I will take another look at it.  It could be that BF probed it, found nothing,   and just left the stick.    But if BF does that,  there should be other logs or stumps that can be probed for termites.    The tools they use seem to be tools of opportunity so they use and leave them since there are not a lot of reports of them seen to be carrying things.   

Edited by SWWASAS

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