Guest Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Of course there is reasonable expectation of delays. This is science at work. The gritty side. I saw the damned thing on more than one occasion, and already this has given my detractors pause. Of course there is reasonable expectation of delays. This is science at work. The gritty side. I saw the damned thing on more than one occasion, and already this has given my detractors pause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Human rights? I don't know about that. What happens when a male is killed or maimed by another male in a terretorial dispute... who's gonna draw the short straw to go arrest the offending BF? If they were to somehow come forward and ASK for constitutional rights, then they can't be denied, but to try to force our own "morality" onto an animal who probably doesn't even know we exist (what percentage of BF has an encounter with a human?) is fairly silly. She's reaching too far. All she has to do is this: 1. Prove they exist 2. Determine what they are 3. ??? 4. Profit And as far as the TBRC "observing" them... if that's true, then there is no excuse for not having photographic evidence, unless it is being witheld in order to maximize monetary gain upon release of the report. And to be clear, I would consider that a VALID excuse, since there's nothing wrong with enjoying the fruits of your labor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotter Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Melissa: Kind of my hidden point to my comment was the statement you made about good luck finding/catching one. I think you hit it on the head. Constitutional rights or no, good luck finding them to impose ANY type of law on them, regardless of status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuyInIndiana Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Here is how I separate the legitimate sasquatch researchers from the illegitimate ones: The legitimate ones don't care who makes the final confirmation happen, as long as it does. The other ones...not so much. Sorry, I can't agree. Many of 'us' legitimate researchers are legitimate, but we don't necessarily believe that it's in the best interest of the species, what ever they are, to be exposed as "existant" UNTIL researchers have observed them well enough and long enough to have fact based evidence and understanding that can be presented 'when' the big announcement comes. As you seem to be stating it, it doesn't matter who does it as long as they can do it FAST and ASAP - the sooner the better. To me, this isn't a race... and anyone truely interested in getting to the finish line first is more interested in the celebrity factor of being "the guy/gal" who proved they existed, regardless of the impact that has on the species. That's why it matters to ME, who breaks the story. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DWA Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Human rights? I don't know about that. What happens when a male is killed or maimed by another male in a terretorial dispute... who's gonna draw the short straw to go arrest the offending BF? If they were to somehow come forward and ASK for constitutional rights, then they can't be denied, but to try to force our own "morality" onto an animal who probably doesn't even know we exist (what percentage of BF has an encounter with a human?) is fairly silly. She's reaching too far. All she has to do is this: 1. Prove they exist 2. Determine what they are 3. ??? 4. Profit And as far as the TBRC "observing" them... if that's true, then there is no excuse for not having photographic evidence, unless it is being witheld in order to maximize monetary gain upon release of the report. And to be clear, I would consider that a VALID excuse, since there's nothing wrong with enjoying the fruits of your labor. Well, as we've discussed over on that "get a pic for petesake" thread, it's hard as get-out even when you are trying to do it. (Those observations aren't in daylight for hours on end; they are in extremely dense woods for seconds - or less - at a time.) They've got camera traps out, and yes, weapons too (about one opp for a clear shot so far, total, and they are being about as cautious as anyone doing that could be). And rememeber, we have a movie, at which science goes, meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 (edited) Ever tried hunting down a bigfoot? Good luck. By the time you do - are you sure its the right one? How do you get close enough to find out? This is a person (hypothetically) remember... You can't just willy nilly shoot it. Humans are allowed their day in court. Boy - what a proceeding that would be.. LOL. Also, if you give Bigfoot the rights of a human being - it must be able to understand those rights and responsibilities. Who will be responsible for that? Oh and walk into a court of law and say "I speak bigfoot" - The judge will say "Prove it". You better be able to prove it or you may find yourself the recipient of a 5150 hold. LOL. Where is that Barbara Billingslea when you need her! (humor- Charactor from "Airplane" Movie, Beaver Cleavers' Mom, who spoke "Jive" ) Edited November 29, 2012 by people booger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slimwitless Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 (edited) BUT - yes she will need a lawyer to get Bigfoot to fit into the constitutional protections. A constitutional lawyer at that. I don't think this guy fits the bill although he does look expensive. FWIW, he registered quite a few of the bigfoot dna-related domains that surely belong to Ketchum. I agree with you that Ketchum should prove these things exist before lobbying for their rights. If they do exist, a sane discussion can proceed without mockery. Edited November 29, 2012 by slimwitless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 I don't think this guy fits the bill although he does look expensive. FWIW, he registered quite a few of the bigfoot dna-related domains that surely belong to Ketchum. I agree with you that Ketchum should prove these things exist before lobbying for their rights. If they do exist, a sane discussion can proceed without mockery. People buy domain names all the time then resell them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 (edited) I spend some time (probably an unhealthy amount) considering some of the moral and social implications of "The Day", should it ever come. In thinking of them as human, there are some profound questions to be answered...And while we make light of their constitutional rights, we may need to consider this with some seriousness. When I was a child, I lived in Botswana, home of the Bushmen, San, or iKung people...They have been hunted, persecuted, and abused to near extinction, because they do not recognized cultural 'norms' of the society around them. Since they do not recognize property, they are often in trouble for killing livestock...Which they see as just more food animals. Are we going to face a similar conflict with Sasquatch, if they are, in fact, human? I hope not, but it appears we still struggle to give Homo sapiens rights. Your story and perspective is valued and thanks for sharing that. I think as the discussion turns to implications a new thread is in order (I spent my two cents on the Online Petition thread). But my guess is, if this really gets traction, no one in the BF community will have to retain a lawyer, the issues are too big along with the precedents potentially set, the same kind of race for first we have seen in Bigfootery will occur among the legal and public interest crowds and their payoff can be had through other means than one client maybe...depends on the science. You might take a look at the "non-human animal rights" website for a very good discussion of legal implications in the case of Large Primate....and it touches only tangentially on the implications of genus Homo, it will be interesting. Edited November 29, 2012 by apehuman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slimwitless Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 People buy domain names all the time then resell them. Of course they do but I have other reasons for making that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernyahoo Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Well - I hope you have a good insurance plan Southernyahoo - cause your head is gonna hurt when you hit the floor from holding your breath.. BUT - yes she will need a lawyer to get Bigfoot to fit into the constitutional protections. A constitutional lawyer at that. The Constitution would have to change (which requires an act of Congress and we know how quick they work) along with every law known to man, the judicial system, Law Enforcement and the Prison system. How do we arrest a Bigfoot if it kills a farmers pig or other livestock? Where do we hold it? Who will arrest it - the local dog catcher? Would you all want a bigfoot executed that killed a person - as is the law in many states?? Can you imagine being an inmate in a facility and having your cell buddy - be a Bigfoot? Well - you can't let a bigfoot get away with crimes we wouldn't let a person get away with.. Better think about this long and hard folks. But, still I wouldn't hold my breath. I've already thought about it long and hard. Their rights will be different than ours and other animals. They would have rights similar to wildlife in that they would have free roam, however murdering one would carry a higher penalty. Farmers deal with the live stock issue already, and they are screwed whether bigfoot did it or not, unless they can claim the loss on their taxes. You can't ignore their humanity or their way of life. Manimal is a sticky wicket, but a compromise can be found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slimwitless Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 (edited) Of course they do but I have other reasons for making that statement. Hmm. I just checked those same domains. It appears Melba Ketchum is (or will be) running a company called Biogen Diagnostics. Domain ID:D35955477-LRMS Domain Name:BIGFOOTDNA.INFO Created On:20-Dec-2010 21:52:00 UTC Last Updated On:30-Apr-2012 23:30:48 UTC Expiration Date:20-Dec-2012 21:52:00 UTC Sponsoring g LLC (R171-LRMS) Status:CLIENT DELETE PROHIBITED Status:CLIENT RENEW PROHIBITED Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED Status:CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED Registrant ID:CR100800912 Registrant Name:Melba Ketchum Registrant Organization:Biogen Diagnostics Registrant Street1:P O Box 455 Registrant Street2: Registrant Street3: Registrant City:Timpson Registrant State/Province:TX Registrant Postal Code:75975 Registrant Country:US Registrant Phone:+1.9362542228 Registrant Phone Ext.: Registrant FAX:+1.9362549286 Registrant FAX Ext.: Registrant Email:msketchum@dnadiagnostics.com Admin ID:CR100800922 Admin Name:Melba Ketchum Admin Organization:Biogen Diagnostics Admin Street1:P O Box 455 Admin Street2: Admin Street3: Admin City:Timpson Admin State/Province:TX Admin Postal Code:75975 Admin Country:US Admin Phone:+1.9362542228 Admin Phone Ext.: Admin FAX:+1.9362549286 Admin FAX Ext.: Admin Email:msketchum@dnadiagnostics.com Billing ID:CR100800926 Billing Name:Melba Ketchum Billing Organization:Biogen Diagnostics Billing Street1:P O Box 455 Billing Street2: Billing Street3: Billing City:Timpson Billing State/Province:TX Billing Postal Code:75975 Billing Country:US Billing Phone:+1.9362542228 Billing Phone Ext.: Billing FAX:+1.9362549286 Billing FAX Ext.: Billing Email:msketchum@dnadiagnostics.com Tech ID:CR100800916 Tech Name:Melba Ketchum Tech Organization:Biogen Diagnostics Tech Street1:P O Box 455 Tech Street2: Tech Street3: Tech City:Timpson Tech State/Province:TX Tech Postal Code:75975 Tech Country:US Tech Phone:+1.9362542228 Tech Phone Ext.: Tech FAX:+1.9362549286 Tech FAX Ext.: Tech Email:msketchum@dnadiagnostics.com Edited November 29, 2012 by slimwitless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
See-Te-Cah NC Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Moderator Statement: Folks, the possible legislation pertaining to Bigfoot and their rights is one many feel passionate about. It borders on political discussion, and I can see possible problems that could stem from such discussions. Comparisons to civil rights for past wrongs among humans toward other humans could prove quite problematic when the forum rules are applied. While I'm not saying that you cannot touch on the subject, I am saying that those that choose to do so are going to be held responsible for their posting according to our rules and guidelines. Please be aware of the possible political overtones present in such a discussion. Thanks, See Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest poignant Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 (edited) Interjecting for a bit of humor on 'manimal'...pic taken from this site: http://inventorspot..../manimals_13736 Edited November 29, 2012 by poignant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Great, now I know what will terrorizing me in my nightmare tonight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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