Guest slimwitless Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Well that didn't work out either!!! Mike Tragic, if true. That said, he's been told he has the most "interesting" sample in Melba Ketchum's study. The ball is in her court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I am searching for the adequate vocabulary and candor in which to say this, so forgive me if I appear calloused, I direct these comments at myself as much as Justin or Driver.Justin stated that he thought it was a person in a suit, and that he wondered if a camera crew might be in the vicinity. 16X at 100 yards on a scope gives enough detail in even decent ambient light to distinguish clear facial features and even eye color. That is not to say that he was not confused about what he was seeing in the sight picture and even apprehensive. As a professional soldier and one who has been trained extensively of the course of the last going on 24 years now to shoot at upright, bipedal hominids. That has had the austere and the morally daunting duty of having to put rounds down-range at such said hominids over the course of a decade long war, that Justin made a moral and ethical decision to fire on the larger creature, knowing full well that he was possibly firing on a human. If you say you "thought it might be a guy in a suit", you cannot follow that up with "or monster" and be in the clear with the rifle gods. A conscious choice was made to ignore the "A-gunner" for lack of a better word and his reservations as an observer, just as it was made when he chose to allegedly shoot the second, smaller subject. I say the following as a matter of fact, whether it be for protection, in warfare or otherwise, it is not an indictment of Justin or anyone's personal character. It is a universal constant. Make no mistake only killers shoot at upright, bipedal hominids, regardless of reason; of which for better or worse I include myself in this category, not hunters. Respectfully. You were spot on IMHO, and thank you for your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 It's pretty simple really. Someone prove these things exist or this is going to happen again. Anyone supposedly sitting on evidence might want to reevaluate their position. Agree. I am starting to think this whole story is total BS. I bought it at first, but the longer it drags on the credibility dissolves along with it. Why wait til now to tell the story on the radio? If the NDA is purely for DNA with Melba, why not show a picture of what is in the freezer? Unwrap it and take a picture if you really want us to believe it. Show us a pic of the tracks or the spot they supposedly got shot at. Surely photos were taken during the search? Btw, if it was me there, I'd have blasted away too. No Bigfoot has ever befriended me or exchanged gifts with me. Big hairy monster not speaking English or wearing clothes, fire away! Just take the dang body to prove it like you had planned when you pulled the trigger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunflower Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Strick Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I've gotten around to listening to the interview now and, I have to say, I was a bit dismayed at what I heard. I state that as an early advocate of the General and someone who reluctantly concedes that it will take a type specimen to settle this mystery. I'm not generally one to agree with Sasfooty about, well anything really, but she has hit the nail on the head with some of her observations in this case. Not even from a moral angle, but from a basic common sense, hunting etiquette kind of angle. For example, Justin repeatedly said words to the effect of: it looked just like a man in a suit, so I shot it. He also stressed the unreality of the situation and stated that he half expected a film crew to come rolling around the corner, so he shot it. To me this makes clear a fuzzy kind of logic and I've made a mental note never to take the kids trick or treating round Justin's house in full costume.... He also stresses how emphatic his friend was that the young ones not be harmed, so what does he do? You guessed it. At no sense did I get a palpable sense of danger from the proximity of the young. I had no idea that the time lag between the 2 shootings was a great as stated in the audio. I'd imagined they were pretty much consecutive. It should have been apparent by the time of the second shooting that the little ones posed very little threat to the two men. Initially, I had a great deal of sympathy with the view that Justin fired because he believed he was being threatened by a monster. Who knows what they would have done in a similar situation? I would have imagined the story to become more massaged, more sympathetic to the perpetrators when heard straight from the horses mouth. Perhaps it speaks to the authenticity of the account that this is not the case, but for me the retelling I head in the interview became more calculating, premeditated and ruthless than the one I had imagined all those months ago when this story broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) None, and it's not ok to kill them either.But your last statement within this sentence,well they have killed.One of our ex Presidents has even stated this and his name was Teddy Roosevelt.Yes, there are more stories where this creature has killed as well.In fact I fear this everytime i am out there in there domain.But there are also stories of them helping and understanding is something that we do not have unless we speak out. I wonder if it could be the males that are causing the problems due to trying to protect the females and/or their youngsters? Human males are protective of their females(mothers, wives, daughters)so I would think that this species could also be protective of those weaker than the males are, and that fact could be related to, and the reason for the stories, of BF that kill. I would think that there are probably rogue males around also who can't locate a mate, and may be a little wilder and rougher than the mated males would be, unless a mated male was protecting his family, and that would also go for a female protecting their young, which is what we saw regarding this killing of a mother and her youngster, and probably why it occurred the way it did. Edited January 4, 2012 by SweetSusiq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dr. Boogie Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 For some reason my mind won't grant me the resources required to assess how right or wrong or understandable or otherwise any shootings might have been until it's satisfied that the story is true. The only way I think I could believe the story is largely dependent upon results of the DNA study. To be honest it's only the apparent credibility of the the DNA study that's giving me any hope that this story might be true. Some of the characters that seem to be attaching themselves to this story scare me more than the thought of a 7ft undiscovered higher primate! Overall I have more confidence in the existence of Bigfoot than in this story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBorn Posted January 4, 2012 Moderator Share Posted January 4, 2012 Mark, Do you ever carry a back-up rifle of some sort in case of an emergency since a gun shoots faster than you can fix an arrow and pull more then one time, or are you skilled enough to fix and pull several arrows in a row if needed? I was just thinking about a rifle as a backup weapon in case of an encounter that needs a lot of firepower to take down for your own safety. I never carry a back up when i hunt with my bow.When I gun hunt I am always care full when i am around them cause I know them.That is why I am stumped at what this creature did with General.In some strange way something does not make sense about this story.How could this creature make itself a target the way it did.I just do not get it.I have been in those woods with my shotgun and not once have these creatures ever made themselves such a target like this.I have even gone to the point of lifting my arms with gun in hands and showing them i mean them no harm that i was only there for deer. There must of been something that made her feel comfortable when they arrived .All creature have this sense about us humans and they know.So what was it that was not right about this creature that put her in this situtation.She had the time to run and escape but instead she went toward her demise.This is what i do not understand.Was this a planned action on her part.These creature just do not allow themselves to be killed.So why?I will still defend General whether his actions were right or wrong only because he seems to show that he did wrong and wishes to corrected.It is not easy to live with mistakes and i know he is dealing with it.It is time to make it right and if money is made it should go towards them the creatures that were done wrong. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 None, and it's not ok to kill them either.But your last statement within this sentence,well they have killed.One of our ex Presidents has even stated this and his name was Teddy Roosevelt.Yes, there are more stories where this creature has killed as well.In fact I fear this everytime i am out there in there domain.But there are also stories of them helping and understanding is something that we do not have unless we speak out. I wonder if the BF that helped humans in trouble were females? Males usually are protectors, and may be a little faster to attack than a female would, remember Patty calmly walking away from Patterson and Gimlin? Females may have more compassion for a human in trouble since it appears that they rear the children from oral and written accounts of females with children being spotted by hunters and hikers, and from our shooter's experience that he has posted here of the apparent mother with her children close-by that came out to see what had happened to their mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Strick Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) For some reason my mind won't grant me the resources required to assess how right or wrong or understandable or otherwise any shootings might have been until it's satisfied that the story is true. Agreed. And there are a few red flags. It sounds as if Justin was prepared to let the whole thing lie after submitting a hoaxed story to the taxidermy site, just for a laugh, but mostly getting ridiculed by the members. However, Derek's interest was so persistent, badgering even, that he eventually decides to roll with it and see where this baby leads to, in a Rick Dyerish kind of way... I’m like, I don’t think so, man, I don’t think I’m going to go back there. And he’s like, You don’t understand, we’ve worked so hard for this, we need your help, we need to get up there. I’m just going to drive down there, how ‘bout I’ll drive to your house, I’ll drive you up there. What, you’re going to drive 12 hours? And he’s like, Yeah, no, this is really important. 27 years of research and this is as big as it gets, this is the holy grail. So eventually I end up saying, Alright, fine, I’ll drive up there, and I’ll get it, then you can drive down and pick up the body. So I put it off, maybe a week or so, I’m busy with work. And I didn’t really get what had happened, and Derek’s calling me up every day, Seriously, you’ve got to get up there, you’ve got to get up there, just call into work, this is so important. There could be money involved. Justin Money is a powerful motivator and Derek does not deny that the prospect of making a few bucks was raised early on. Hell, even the expenses mentioned could be exaggerated with a little creative accountancy... As far as money goes, yes I told him there could be money involved with a body recovery, but money being a motive for the shooting, no. When the shooting happened he knew nothing about Bigfoot and we hadn't met, so that was not his motive. The only money involved was me giving Justin a few hundred bucks to pay for travel expenses to go back up and look a few times, that's it. Derek Of course, the fly in the ointment for the hoax hypothesis is is that Justin's account has apparently been corroborated by Melba Ketchum's DNA analysis. This provides us with only 2 scenarios: 1. No Bigfoots were ever shot, but Justin and the Driver identify a suitably atmospheric spot in the Sierra Buttes and, by absolute fluke, dig a little piece of Bigfoot out of the snow with a little help from the blood hound. Of course, this scenario is imppossible. 2. Melba Ketchum's patented Bigfoot test is catastrophically flawed and, chances are, all the samples have been misidentified from known animals or, most likely, humans. At no point was this picked up during cross-testing by alternative labs or in the process of peer review. Of course, the paper has not been released yet and we cannot say with confidence that it ever will, so this scenario might have been playing out all along. Of course, Justin can't believe his luck when a respected scientist backs up his story with DNA proof. No matter, this is turning out to be a wild ride and better than the day job, so he decides to hold on for all he's got and ride this thing til the wheels fall off - most likely at at a cringe-making press conference in San Francisco. I'm not saying all of the above is how this thing happened - in fact I have a certain amount of faith in the story as Justin tells it. But hey! You gotta cover all the eventualities right? Edited January 4, 2012 by Strick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBorn Posted January 4, 2012 Moderator Share Posted January 4, 2012 You ask them for a gift, they give you one, then you contemplate shooting them. I guess this is why you can be so sympathetic. The only thing that would stop you is fear of retaliation. Sas This was before i even understood them.Understanding them is what is going to keep them alive.Personaly and it is my opionion they really do not need our protection since they have done this very well themselves.But i am not your enemy and i am not their enemy either.But making people understand that these creature just want to be left alone is what we should advocating.Awareness is what is needed and if DNA has been retrieved, well why not try to make good from it.Use it to our advantage and prevent another tragic event.Do not fight me but help in preventing. Mark You ask them for a gift, they give you one, then you contemplate shooting them. I guess this is why you can be so sympathetic. The only thing that would stop you is fear of retaliation. Sas This was before i even understood them.Understanding them is what is going to keep them alive.Personaly and it is my opionion they really do not need our protection since they have done this very well themselves.But i am not your enemy and i am not their enemy either.But making people understand that these creature just want to be left alone is what we should advocating.Awareness is what is needed and if DNA has been retrieved, well why not try to make good from it.Use it to our advantage and prevent another tragic event.Do not fight me but help in preventing. Mark You ask them for a gift, they give you one, then you contemplate shooting them. I guess this is why you can be so sympathetic. The only thing that would stop you is fear of retaliation. Sas This was before i even understood them.Understanding them is what is going to keep them alive.Personaly and it is my opionion they really do not need our protection since they have done this very well themselves.But i am not your enemy and i am not their enemy either.But making people understand that these creature just want to be left alone is what we should advocating.Awareness is what is needed and if DNA has been retrieved, well why not try to make good from it.Use it to our advantage and prevent another tragic event.Do not fight me but help in preventing. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) julio126, on 04 January 2012 - 05:40 AM, said: So this is how it is going to be? Some one finally shoots one of these creatures and now there is all this remorse.Well I sure hate to see when they finally bring a body that has been shot.Sure you can say I am defending General and I still believe that he knows he made a mistake. No one knows what goes through a person mind when you see these creatures,You make one mistake and then you another mistake.Sure that does not justify what he did but it happen.So what is going to happen when some one does bring in that body ,then what ?we are going to rip them a new but hole.He seems to being the right thing by coming forth on what he did and he did sound remorsefull for what happen.He sure as heck not happy about this but it happen. So why should we be just as bad by now treating him like a criminal.What happen is done and we cannot change that.But because of what happen we now have DNA and the DNA is not the first and i am sure it will not be the last.You can bet i have deeply thought about shooting one with my bow but I know better that i will not survive the out come.Like i have said I would have to be defending my self and that would be my only way.So far they(the creatures) have not shown any aggression towards me .They have been mad with me but is my fault for hunting on thier turf. Besides the NDA's he has been very open with his encounters.He could have swept this under the rug and never speak of this.But he did come forward and in my opionion that makes it ok in my book. Mark And away we go So this is how it is going to be? Some one finally shoots one of these creatures and now there is all this remorse.Well I sure hate to see when they finally bring a body that has been shot. A: At least there will be something to show for it, right now all we can say is that there is an alleged DNA source in the steak, which for the time-being adds up to Diddly Squat. Sure you can say I am defending General and I still believe that he knows he made a mistake. A: Killing the first one and not pursuing all means to recover it at the time was a mistake; shooting second smaller creature because you basically just wanted to is irresponsible and heartless, not recovering that body for a specimen due to getting your panties in a wad with your hunting buddy is just stupidity. The truth is the truth, doesn't matter it its popular or unpopular. No one knows what goes through a person mind when you see these creatures, A: I know first-hand thank you. Reached for a rifle that was not there due to muscle memory, but I would not have gone to condition one and emtied the magazine without a clear threat. You make one mistake and then you another mistake. A: Over-generalizing a bit are we not? Sure that does not justify what he did but it happen.So what is going to happen when some one does bring in that body ,then what ? We are going to rip them a new butt hole? A:People have a right to be in either kill/no kill camp as well as their opinions, morality and personal dispositions. The manner, method and mindset of the person doing the collecting will no doubt carry weight in the debates that will surely follow. He seems to being the right thing by coming forth on what he did and he did sound remorsefull for what happen.He sure as heck not happy about this but it happen. A: Did he begin feeling unhappy about this after lighting up the first one or popping the second one? Maybe if he had hung around for a few more to show up and popped them he might have felt better about the whole thing, killing is easier the more you do it. Doesn't make it anymore right or wrong...just easier. So why should we be just as bad by now treating him like a criminal.What happen is done and we cannot change that.But because of what happen we now have DNA and the DNA is not the first and i am sure it will not be the last. A: Not a criminal, just the reason the rest of us have to wear orange. DNA? Someone has said they have DNA, noone can prove or say without a doubt that sample came from a Sasquatch. If they can they know more than they are telling. If that's the case were's the rest of the body? You can bet i have deeply thought about shooting one with my bow but I know better that i will not survive the out come. A: You thought about it and made a choice not to shoot, General thought about it and made a choice to shoot. You would no doubt collect the specimen, General chose to discard not one mind you but two specimens. Like i have said I would have to be defending my self and that would be my only way.So far they(the creatures) have not shown any aggression towards me .They have been mad with me but is my fault for hunting on thier turf. A: You would be conscerned with reprisals from present troop/family members.. Why not just keep shooting them...the precedent has been set right? Leave them, take them doesn't matter really. Besides the NDA's he has been very open with his encounters. A: I certainly agree to a certain degree. He could have swept this under the rug and never speak of this. A: And here is where the rubber meets the road; here is the reason you don't have specimens, the initial intent after the shootings. But he did come forward and in my opionion that makes it ok in my book. A: Yes it's quite ok now, I'm just as forgiving as the next frightened hiker/hunter waiting for a round in the chest in the woods now. Maybe I was safer in Afghanistan. Edited January 4, 2012 by Tautriadelta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dr. Boogie Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Agreed. And there are a few red flags. It sounds as if Justin was prepared to let the whole thing lie after submitting a hoaxed story to the taxidermy site, just for a laugh, but mostly getting ridiculed by the members. However, Derek's interest was so persistent, badgering even, that he eventually decides to roll with it and see where this baby leads to, in a Rick Dyerish kind of way... I’m like, I don’t think so, man, I don’t think I’m going to go back there. And he’s like, You don’t understand, we’ve worked so hard for this, we need your help, we need to get up there. I’m just going to drive down there, how ‘bout I’ll drive to your house, I’ll drive you up there. What, you’re going to drive 12 hours? And he’s like, Yeah, no, this is really important. 27 years of research and this is as big as it gets, this is the holy grail. So eventually I end up saying, Alright, fine, I’ll drive up there, and I’ll get it, then you can drive down and pick up the body. So I put it off, maybe a week or so, I’m busy with work. And I didn’t really get what had happened, and Derek’s calling me up every day, Seriously, you’ve got to get up there, you’ve got to get up there, just call into work, this is so important. There could be money involved. Justin Money is a powerful motivator and Derek does not deny that the prospect of making a few bucks was raised early on. Hell, even the expenses mentioned could be exaggerated with a little creative accountancy... As far as money goes, yes I told him there could be money involved with a body recovery, but money being a motive for the shooting, no. When the shooting happened he knew nothing about Bigfoot and we hadn't met, so that was not his motive. The only money involved was me giving Justin a few hundred bucks to pay for travel expenses to go back up and look a few times, that's it. Derek Of course, the fly in the ointment for the hoax hypothesis is is that Justin's account has apparently been corroborated by Melba Ketchum's DNA analysis. This provides us with only 2 scenarios: 1. No Bigfoots were ever shot, but Justin and the Driver identify a suitably atmospheric spot in the Sierra Buttes and, by absolute fluke, dig a little piece of Bigfoot out of the snow with a little help from the blood hound. Of course, this scenario is imppossible. 2. Melba Ketchum's patented Bigfoot test is catastrophically flawed and, chances are, all the samples have been misidentified from known animals or, most likely, humans. At no point was this picked up during cross-testing by alternative labs or in the process of peer review. Of course, the paper has not been released yet and we cannot say with confidence that it ever will, so this scenario might have been playing out all along. Of course, Justin can't believe his luck when a respected scientist backs up his story with DNA proof. No matter, this is turning out to be a wild ride and better than the day job, so he decides to hold on for all he's got and ride this thing til the wheels fall off - most likely at at a cringe-making press conference in San Francisco. I'm not saying all of the above is how this thing happened - in fact I have a certain amount of faith in the story as Justin tells it. But hey! You gotta cover all the eventualities right? Yes, the story just doesn't wash IMO. Actually, even if Sasquatch is proved to exist with DNA obtained from this reported incident being part of the proof I still don't think I'll believe this story 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasfooty Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Sas This was before i even understood them.Understanding them is what is going to keep them alive.Personaly and it is my opionion they really do not need our protection since they have done this very well themselves. You're exactly right about them not needing our protection. The only thing we can do to help them is to let most of the world go on thinking that they're just a myth. Anything else we do "for them" will only expose them to more danger from being hunted & harassed. But making people understand that these creature just want to be left alone is what we should advocating. No it isn't! It will just bring more trouble down on them. People don't care that they want to be left alone, & they never will. They think of them as just another wild creature to be killed for their pleasure. They don't think of them as intelligent people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HucksterFoot Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 They aren't animals! They take care of each other. So do Animals Sas, us in particular. Well some of us anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts