bipedalist Posted January 4, 2012 BFF Patron Posted January 4, 2012 Wow now I can truly say I have followed it all through the OP "everything you wanted to know about the Sierra shooting and probably more " but more likely less. Waiting for the book and the dna.
Bonehead74 Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Is my computer playing tricks on me or did I read a post that went away? Darn now I don't remember who said it. No Hammy, your computer was playing you straight. My post above is in reference to the vanished post. Edited January 4, 2012 by Bonehead74
Incorrigible1 Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Wow. So many panties in a twist over an event that may have never happened. Here's an idea: let's wait until the truth of the shooting and the good doctor's analysis of Justin's sample is known before we go lobbying for federal law enforcement to go scoop up a fellow forum member on completely unsubstantiated charges. What a joke. P.S. Encounter, I can assure you from first-hand experience that monsters do exist, and sometimes they need to be killed. Blanket statements such as yours undermine your credibility. QFT Quoted For Truth
Guest Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Wow. So many panties in a twist over an event that may have never happened. Here's an idea: let's wait until the truth of the shooting and the good doctor's analysis of Justin's sample is known before we go lobbying for federal law enforcement to go scoop up a fellow forum member on completely unsubstantiated charges. What a joke. P.S. Encounter, I can assure you from first-hand experience that monsters do exist, and sometimes they need to be killed. Blanket statements such as yours undermine your credibility. Hi Bonehead74 I think there is so much conversation on this thread about an unsubstanciated story because of the emotions and reactions the story has evoked. It actually brings out some of the most polarised points of view concerning sasquatch research, encounter, existance and research. While some hearing this story are fully sickened by the mere possibility someone could cold bloodedly kill two beings who look similar to human parent and child (remember Justin states he had a long time to get used to the child before shooting it in the neck and then describes the child [which he apparently then held in his arms for a long time as it died] as looking like a black kid, then threw the body to the ground before he left ) ; others show little concern at the ethics of the killing at all. In this case perhaps proving or not proving the story is not the most important aspect of what Justin has said as for your last sentence "Encounter, I can assure you from first-hand experience that monsters do exist, and sometimes they need to be killed. Blanket statements such as yours undermine your credibility." tis odd that you think saying monsters exist makes your credibility good and my saying they dont (and obviously talking about the perspective of seeing something as bad or evil etc) makes me questionable. If it helps I have had yowie encounters and so believe in them and I can tell you they are not monsters. "Monster" as an identification is a subjective identification and I do not identify anyting in this world or any other world as a monster in the sense it is bad or wrong or evil. What I said was this "Shooting the monster doesnt heal anything or anyone. The person who can encounter their monster with compassion will find no more monsters in their life. Bigfoot, sasquatch, yowie - they are not monsters but if one feels they are then the lesson is to find their beauty and heal the situation. " Edited January 4, 2012 by Encounter
Guest Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 And one has to wonder, of all the sorrow in the world involving humanity, this was the one that incited action in self righteous indignation. That speaks volumes in and of itself. Well said
Guest Posted January 5, 2012 Posted January 5, 2012 BBF Members- OK so here we are, even Justin has admitted to a bad time of desision making. We still have a man who can be redemded here. When we make a mistake sometimes we can hang our head and try to carry on the best we can. Sometimes we are accountable to a boss, a wife a judge a friend. I can't buy totally in to the story 100% but what is done IS done. Nothing will bring the two Sas back. Nothing we can do in "judging" Justin will change the past. However my question still stands which I have asked Justin is this- would you consider some sort of restitution for the loss of a viable and child bearing Sas. Would you consider speaking to a hunting club letting them know to watch out for something that may strike a hunter as something certainly out of the ordinary? Would you consider re telling your testimony in front of a legislative commitee if you knew it may help in the protection of Sas? just wondering Justin if any healing can take place in the aftermath of this incident? Do you feel in any way that a restitution would be worth while? Just wondering if you might consider that path ; if it would possibly make you feel a little better at this stage. ptangier
Guest Posted January 5, 2012 Posted January 5, 2012 BBF Members- OK so here we are, even Justin has admitted to a bad time of desision making. We still have a man who can be redemded here. When we make a mistake sometimes we can hang our head and try to carry on the best we can. Sometimes we are accountable to a boss, a wife a judge a friend. I can't buy totally in to the story 100% but what is done IS done. Nothing will bring the two Sas back. Nothing we can do in "judging" Justin will change the past. However my question still stands which I have asked Justin is this- would you consider some sort of restitution for the loss of a viable and child bearing Sas. Would you consider speaking to a hunting club letting them know to watch out for something that may strike a hunter as something certainly out of the ordinary? Would you consider re telling your testimony in front of a legislative commitee if you knew it may help in the protection of Sas? just wondering Justin if any healing can take place in the aftermath of this incident? Do you feel in any way that a restitution would be worth while? Just wondering if you might consider that path ; if it would possibly make you feel a little better at this stage. ptangier Wow, what a great question. I think that's a fantastic idea. I hope that Justin answers you, and feels the same way. DR
Guest Jodie Posted January 5, 2012 Posted January 5, 2012 Without getting too personal Encounter, it's obvious that you haven't met any real monsters in your life time. That's a fortunate thing for you. But when you do, killing them will be the compassionate thing to do for all concerned.
Guest Posted January 5, 2012 Posted January 5, 2012 Without getting too personal Encounter, it's obvious that you haven't met any real monsters in your life time. That's a fortunate thing for you. But when you do, killing them will be the compassionate thing to do for all concerned. Im confused, whats a "real monster". I have encountered a yowie and this is a bigfoot forum so I am guessing discussion of monsters is apparently to do with that? This discussion is due to Justin saying he thought it was a monster. He saw something then likely like I have seen and been quite close to. I saw no monster. If you are talking of monsters in some other way what are you talking about? Are you talking of people? Just confused. I know what I have seen in life and due to my way of seeing life I do not call it a monster. If your talking about bad people or bad things, well I have encountered some pretty cruel people doing things that you would call very bad, it was my job to look into what such people were doing, so have met with lots of thins in my life - but I call noone a monster. I have a way of looking at life and that way concerns absolutely not seeing anything as a monster.
Guest Posted January 5, 2012 Posted January 5, 2012 I am searching for the adequate vocabulary and candor in which to say this, so forgive me if I appear calloused, I direct these comments at myself as much as Justin or Driver.Justin stated that he thought it was a person in a suit, and that he wondered if a camera crew might be in the vicinity. 16X at 100 yards on a scope gives enough detail in even decent ambient light to distinguish clear facial features and even eye color. That is not to say that he was not confused about what he was seeing in the sight picture and even apprehensive. As a professional soldier and one who has been trained extensively of the course of the last going on 24 years now to shoot at upright, bipedal hominids. That has had the austere and the morally daunting duty of having to put rounds down-range at such said hominids over the course of a decade long war, that Justin made a moral and ethical decision to fire on the larger creature, knowing full well that he was possibly firing on a human. If you say you "thought it might be a guy in a suit", you cannot follow that up with "or monster" and be in the clear with the rifle gods. A conscious choice was made to ignore the "A-gunner" for lack of a better word and his reservations as an observer, just as it was made when he chose to allegedly shoot the second, smaller subject. I say the following as a matter of fact, whether it be for protection, in warfare or otherwise, it is not an indictment of Justin or anyone's personal character. It is a universal constant. Make no mistake only killers shoot at upright, bipedal hominids, regardless of reason; of which for better or worse I include myself in this category, not hunters. Respectfully. One plus to you for this post from me...Thank you!
Guest Jodie Posted January 5, 2012 Posted January 5, 2012 Yep, to me sasquatch is not a monster, but it would certainly scare you to death if you saw one and thought they were just a myth. I was speaking of people who can be the real monsters, and if you can have that attitude about them, you are a better person than I will ever be.
Guest FuriousGeorge Posted January 5, 2012 Posted January 5, 2012 I have a completely different philosophy about just leaving them alone. Sorry to keep throwing this around but I think some don't understand how important it really is to examine them. If killing is the only way it seems to bring one in, I'm good with that. I can't really defend blowing away the wee one but eh. Should we have just left the bald eagles alone when we were inadvertently killing them off by using DDT? Or should we have tried to learn what was going on by examining them? It's a good thing we tried to learn what was going on because we saved them. Not to mention also saving scores of marine invertebrates in the process (which are in the food chain for countless species). Some say that bf populations are in decline. If that is true, then they may not be just fine without us. It is important for us to find out why and if we are the cause. A specimen may give up those answers. If this thing really happened, he might have just unknowingly saved the entire species.
Guest Posted January 5, 2012 Posted January 5, 2012 Yep, to me sasquatch is not a monster, but it would certainly scare you to death if you saw one and thought they were just a myth. I was speaking of people who can be the real monsters, and if you can have that attitude about them, you are a better person than I will ever be. Jodie, in my belief system it is important to start with understanding no one is a monster, this allows compassion in every encounter. As I say I have worked in positions requiring me to meet with people who did very cruel things in the name of whatever. I can tell you that people who do those things often think they are doing it for a validated reason, they think they are killing, torchering, raping, setting on fire... a monster. Here by the way, I am talking of people who for their acts would be in jail for a long time, some for life and in some US states would be on death row. I was urked by it but knew I was to learn more about the real cause for all of this, and that is lack of compassion in our society, lack of love of others and of self.
Bonehead74 Posted January 5, 2012 Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) In this case perhaps proving or not proving the story is not the most important aspect of what Justin has said I respect your right to your opinion, but you lose me right here. I think we just need to agree to disagree. Based on your above quote, it appears that you think it's justifiable to castigate someone based on a feeling or impression of an incident that has not been confirmed to have occurred instead of basing your criticism on objective reality. This is the most important and critical point, and I'm afraid we are poles apart in respect to it. If the event didn't happen as Justin says, then the the moralizing over his actions(except perhaps for lying about the incident) is both foolish and baseless. tis odd that you think saying monsters exist makes your credibility good and my saying they dont (and obviously talking about the perspective of seeing something as bad or evil etc) makes me questionable. If it helps I have had yowie encounters and so believe in them and I can tell you they are not monsters. "Monster" as an identification is a subjective identification and I do not identify anyting in this world or any other world as a monster in the sense it is bad or wrong or evil. I say this with all due respect, but that last sentence makes you appear woefully naive. This from post #1961 is what I was referring to: There are classic stories throughout history, teaching people that all life is sacred, that even apparent "monsters" always turn out to be just another fellow being. Bolding/italics/underlining mine. My life experience has proven otherwise. You present a false dichotomy. They may be fellow beings, but they can also be monsters. The two are not mutually exclusive. What I said was this "Shooting the monster doesnt heal anything or anyone. The person who can encounter their monster with compassion will find no more monsters in their life. Bigfoot, sasquatch, yowie - they are not monsters but if one feels they are then the lesson is to find their beauty and heal the situation." I never said that I believe BF/sasquatch/yowies are (necessarily) monsters. Besides, defining a 'monster' is a semantic minefield which I am disinclined to enter after the workday I've had (where I have to deal with human monsters and their victims). Edited January 5, 2012 by Bonehead74
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