Bigfoot & Native Americans...

[Guest HairyGreek]

8. Bagwajinini was treated as both spirit and being by the Anishinaabeg.

So do you believe they are even huntable/killable? You seemed to be concerned earlier in the thread with people looking for them, but spirit beings (it would seem to me) would not have any worries hiding from people and a bullet would go right through them.

[Guest BAGWAJININI]

I thought it was about respecting the wild and the creatures that are in it as well as not forgetting the old ways. Of course, that is JMVHO. (Is that one of levels Greyjay or is my maturity level off-kilter still? )

Respecting all of creation is a lesson in every story. This is a site for people with what seems to be somewhat scientific questions too however. What you got out of the story was a lesson that is in fact there; however, that's now the level I posted about. I try to see through both worlds. You're not off base at all. One of the questions in the forum is do I think he is physical or spirit. I'm still now sure. That is why I'm drawing conclusion in the manner I am.

[Guest BAGWAJININI]

So do you believe they are even huntable/killable? You seemed to be concerned earlier in the thread with people looking for them, but spirit beings (it would seem to me) would not have any worries hiding from people and a bullet would go right through them.

That's a very hard question for me to answer. I don't know every aspect about him. I wonder also. If he can kill a deer, then he can be killed, but that's logic. If I think spiritually, I would say he is spirit. I don't think a bullet would go right through them as though they are a hologram or a ghost like. He can take care of himself. I'm sure he would simply leave the area if people (of any race) were to go into our woods making ear-wrenching high pitched howls and carrying infrared cameras and/or using a 40 decibel amplifier to make those high pitched howls for them; moreover, talking on their short wave hand held radios. They couldn't film nothing doing stuff like that. I'm not exactly worried about his safety. I just don't want them to leave us. We value his presence.

If I had to say if he was or wasn't killable, I'd say he is killable. This is only a thought or conclusion I've come to and not the words of my elders or the Anishinaabeg people. They did chase him in the story Pine told us.

[Guest BAGWAJININI]

Here's an interesting, critical thinking concept:

If I, regardless of my race or ethnicity, provided an actual video recording, pictures, sound recording of a Bagwajinini, what would the outcome be?

As aspiring warriors we are asked to learn to look in all directions and years ahead to come to a conclusion before making big decisions. I'm not saying that I am able to provide this. I'm asking what the outcome would be if I did.

What would happen next? If people were to think like this, they would more than likely come to the same conclusion.

So tell me what the next step would be if someone actually revealed him to the world?

There was a man near our reservation who used to feed bears and Now they have Shutes bear sanctuary with hundreds of hunters every year poaching and hunting around my reservation and we don't like it.

What would happen? You tell me? I already know... Think about that.

I'm done with that subject.

[Guest]

That's a very hard question for me to answer. I don't know every aspect about him. I wonder also. If he can kill a deer, then he can be killed, but that's logic. If I think spiritually, I would say he is spirit. I don't think a bullet would go right through them as though they are a hologram or a ghost like. He can take care of himself. I'm sure he would simply leave the area if people (of any race) were to go into our woods making ear-wrenching high pitched howls and carrying infrared cameras and/or using a 40 decibel amplifier to make those high pitched howls for them; moreover, talking on their short wave hand held radios. They couldn't film nothing doing stuff like that. I'm not exactly worried about his safety. I just don't want them to leave us. We value his presence.

If I had to say if he was or wasn't killable, I'd say he is killable. This is only a thought or conclusion I've come to and not the words of my elders or the Anishinaabeg people. They did chase him in the story Pine told us.

I wonder, after studying the PGF, and seeing how very muscular her body was, I would think that killing one of these creatures could be very difficult unless an eye shot was taken, or a head shot but the skull seems odd shaped in the PGF and it could be very thick so I wonder what it would take to kill one?

Do we know if NA's ever killed one?

The more muscle BF has the harder it would be for the bullet to reach vital organs to kill one.

Our NA's here may have an answer to this question I hope.

Those 800+ pounds seem to be mostly muscle.

[Guest HairyGreek]

If I had to say if he was or wasn't killable, I'd say he is killable. This is only a thought or conclusion I've come to and not the words of my elders or the Anishinaabeg people. They did chase him in the story Pine told us.

I would be very interested in what the elders and/or what your people as a whole feel; especially about their origins. Where they came from. I also know there are some animals and humans that are thought to be a mixture of both spirit and flesh in some tribes - some even shape changers. They are killable in certain forms. I do not know if your people have any beliefs like that. My personal beliefs are very strange regarding this creature but I believe them to be killable flesh and blood and closely related to human beings. Unfortunately, I cannot share mine here on this board.

[Guest KentuckyApeman]

I wonder, after studying the PGF, and seeing how very muscular her body was, I would think that killing one of these creatures could be very difficult unless an eye shot was taken, or a head shot but the skull seems odd shaped in the PGF and it could be very thick so I wonder what it would take to kill one?

Do we know if NA's ever killed one?

The more muscle BF has the harder it would be for the bullet to reach vital organs to kill one.

Our NA's here may have an answer to this question I hope.

Those 800+ pounds seem to be mostly muscle.

First, the only known case of a BF attacking humans is questionable.

So unless you are being bull charged by an 800 lb. biped primate who is within 50 feet of you, no need to kill one.

After that.....you decide if your survival is worth it.

[TimB]

I wonder, after studying the PGF, and seeing how very muscular her body was, I would think that killing one of these creatures could be very difficult unless an eye shot was taken, or a head shot but the skull seems odd shaped in the PGF and it could be very thick so I wonder what it would take to kill one?

Do we know if NA's ever killed one?

The more muscle BF has the harder it would be for the bullet to reach vital organs to kill one.

Our NA's here may have an answer to this question I hope.

Those 800+ pounds seem to be mostly muscle.

Why would you kill someone who was sent to you from the Creator?

Tim B.

[Guest HairyGreek]

First, the only known case of a BF attacking humans is questionable.

Says who? There are multiple threads in here that dispute that. There are also people on the forum who have been attacked. Where did you get this info from?

Oh, Sweetsusiq, go see the video posted in the thread "Bigfoot" (sorry, that is literally all it is called) started by para ape. You will see that there ain't anything with blood running through it a human can't take down with something they can hold in their hands.

Edited August 4, 2011 by HairyGreek

[Guest]

Here's an interesting, critical thinking concept:

If I, regardless of my race or ethnicity, provided an actual video recording, pictures, sound recording of a Bagwajinini, what would the outcome be?

As aspiring warriors we are asked to learn to look in all directions and years ahead to come to a conclusion before making big decisions. I'm not saying that I am able to provide this. I'm asking what the outcome would be if I did.

What would happen next? If people were to think like this, they would more than likely come to the same conclusion.

So tell me what the next step would be if someone actually revealed him to the world?

There was a man near our reservation who used to feed bears and Now they have Shutes bear sanctuary with hundreds of hunters every year poaching and hunting around my reservation and we don't like it.

What would happen? You tell me? I already know... Think about that.

I'm done with that subject.

Bagwajinini,

I have thought about this question for a long time now. Please understand, I too have had many encounters with Sasquatch. My first was 34 yrs ago and 3 since. Three of those times I was hunting and had my rifle on me. Once I had to point it at him because he aggressively approached my direction and cut my dog and I off on the trail with no other way around, so I had to literally approach him in order to pass. I spoke calmly to him as we passed within 22'. He allowed us to do so without further aggression. I was only able to do this because of my previous experiences with them. My second sighting was while deer hunting and I saw one climbing a hill not a hundred yds away, so I watched him using my binoculars but knew enough to gauge his height with a knot on a big old growth Douglas Fir tree as he passed behind it. Well I did that but after he went behind it, he didn't come out the other side, so I made up my mind that I wasn't going to take my eyes off that tree no matter what. So after several minutes of holding still with my elbows on my knees while sitting on my butt, I hear something coming down the hill very fast towards me. I am inside the edge of wilderness so who knows what is coming at me, and so for my own safety, I had to look. Well here comes this large Garter Snake moving very fast right towards me, behavior completely nontypical for a snake, and I've had plenty of pet snakes as a kid. So this snake is coming right at me crawls over my rifle, between my feet & butt and out the other side and without slowing down it flies off the 20' ledge to the ground below. It is right then I realized, 'I took my eyes off the tree!' I know that snake was no coincidence. I just hope it wasn't shapeshifting because if so, I had a bigfoot run under my legs. lol Anyway besides the four I have seen, I have also had many other non-visual encounters too, a few of those that are further outside the F&B explanation as well. I can sense their presence too which I realize is a gift. I know there is purpose in my experiences that I, like you, am trying to understand. I have no need to prove their existence either because I have experienced enough proof for my satisfaction.

My experience aside and to address your question. I do not believe that full thought has gone into the 'what will happen if they are proven question'. Many people see the solution being that they will receive Federal Protection and that will take care of them. What I realize is that once their existence is proven, there will be 'elements' of our society that do not care about the laws. I fear a Black Market, or at least an attempt at filling one, will be created. I fear that certain third world countries will see their soon valuable parts as life giving, healing, rejuvenating, aphrodisiacs, etc. Similar to Tiger bone, bear gallbladder, and all the other animal parts that are wrongly used in various superstitious societies. Laws here and in Canada won't protect them in remote parts of the world once the wrong element learns they really do exist. Even here, I know that laws don't stop poaching of prized trophies just for horns and the meat is left to rot. This subject is even the topic of my next blog post, but it is not yet complete because I keep getting sidetracked. I started a thread here several months ago on the Ramifications of Proving Their Existence too, where some of this was also raised, so like I said, I have been thinking about this for a while.

I can also understand the perspective of your people. I have certain thoughts on this beyond what I'll post here too. I have tried to speak with elders in the past on my concerns but I am still an outsider. I think they wonder how can someone who does not even look Indian have so many encounters? Why trust him? Well, I fear something will be missed by NA's if they ignore the issue too long. They have little reason to trust from past experiences, but maybe there is a lesson for NA's too in that there may be a time when they need to act proactively, or their input will not even be considered when the time does come.

Those are some of my thoughts on it Bagwajinini.

[Guest wudewasa]

I'm sure he would simply leave the area if people (of any race) were to go into our woods making ear-wrenching high pitched howls and carrying infrared cameras and/or using a 40 decibel amplifier to make those high pitched howls for them; moreover, talking on their short wave hand held radios. They couldn't film nothing doing stuff like that.

Correct, and the Finding Bigfoot team didn't find anything, except paychecks from the production company. Heck, they brought in 300 people and some zagnut bars and didn't get evidence, except a deer skeleton purportedly killed by bigfoot. Way to save face for ratings!

Any time an animal can't extract a specific resource from an area, it moves on, unless it can adapt to using other resources to survive.

[Guest BAGWAJININI]

I lived on the Seine River First Nation Reservation for a year about 10 years ago. I was helping my ex's older brother who's job was to assist the elders around the reservation. We walked across the lake to an elder named "pine- pronounced pin-ay-meaning partridge". Pine lived in an old tar paper shack across the lake and didn't come into the village. He loved having visitors though. We brought him a sled full of wood to burn in his little iron stove and sat and listened. He told us a story about Bagwajinini. The story goes as follows;

Mewinzha, gaa apii geyaabi endaawaad waaginogaaning Anishinaabeg, gii odisaawaan apane go Bagwajininiwan Anishinaabeg omaa. Mii go apii jibwaa waaka'igan ayaawaad Anishinaabeg omaa. Anishinaabeg ogii-pagijiganaawaan Bagwajinini moozhag. Bagwajininiwan ogii-minodoodawaawaan Anishinaabeg. tibishkoo osayeyan. Aabiding igo ogii-kibaakwabagijiganaawaan Anishinaabeg. Gii waaka'iganikewaad igaye pagamigiiwaashkwebiiwaad apane go Anishinaabeg. Ogii-maajitaa aabaji'toowaawaan wasagamook ji waabamaawaad dibikak. Gaawiin geyaabi ogii-nisidotasiiaawaan awe Bagwajininiwan. Ogii-poonenimaawaan Bagwajininiwan Anishinaabeg. "Aniishiin wenji odisasiweg geyaabi" ogii-kagwejimaawaan Anishinaabeg idash Gawiin wiiya gii nakwetamawisaawaad. Kitchi bagaminishkenimaawaad awe Bagwajinini. Aabiding igo gii pi-izhaa ji odisaawaawaan Anishinaabewan Bagwajinini idash Gaawiin geyaabi giigidotawaasiig Anishinaabeg. Mii gaa apii kimoodwaawan awe Anishinaabebinoojiiyens. Kina wiiya ogii-noopinaawaan noopiming. Onzaawewiibatood idash awe Bagwajinini. "Gaagige giga-maanendaam" etago gii noondawaad bezhigonini. Mii wenji omaa-ayaayaan animi-ayaa ingiwedig anishinaabeg agaamakwaa. Gii nimishoomeban aw abinoojiiyensiban.

Translation: Long ago, when the Anishinaabeg people still lived in the crooked lodge (wig-wam), the wild man always came to visit the Anishinaabeg people here. That was before the Anishinaabeg people lived in houses. The Anishinaabeg people always gave offerings to the wild man. The anishinaabeg treated the wild man good. Just like they would treat an older brother. Once though, the Anishinaabeg simply stopped giving offerings to the wild man. The Anishinaabeg people began building houses and being drunk all of the time. They began to use lightning to see in the dark. The Anishinaabeg people were no longer communicating with the wild man. They began to ignore him. "Why do you no longer visit with me? the wild man asked the Anishinaabeg people, but nobody answered. The wild man became very angry. Once he came to visit the Anishinaabeg people again but nobody would talk to him. That is when he stole a baby. Everyone chased him into the woods. He was too fast though. "You will all be sorry forever" is the only thing one man heard. That is why I live here, away from those ones acroos the lake. That baby was to be my uncle.

What can we learn from this story?

48.716988,-92.436265 google satellite map coordinates of Pines shack.

48.738087,-92.308245 where I had a sighting one morning while putting out my tobacco for prayer.

[Guest]

I am curious, what is your reason for providing coordinates? It seems very counter to your concerns.

Not that outsiders would be allowed...

Edited August 4, 2011 by PragmaticTheorist

[Guest BAGWAJININI]

Bagwajinini,

I have thought about this question for a long time now. Please understand, I too have had many encounters with Sasquatch. My first was 34 yrs ago and 3 since. Three of those times I was hunting and had my rifle on me. Once I had to point it at him because he aggressively approached my direction and cut my dog and I off on the trail with no other way around, so I had to literally approach him in order to pass. I spoke calmly to him as we passed within 22'. He allowed us to do so without further aggression. I was only able to do this because of my previous experiences with them. My second sighting was while deer hunting and I saw one climbing a hill not a hundred yds away, so I watched him using my binoculars but knew enough to gauge his height with a knot on a big old growth Douglas Fir tree as he passed behind it. Well I did that but after he went behind it, he didn't come out the other side, so I made up my mind that I wasn't going to take my eyes off that tree no matter what. So after several minutes of holding still with my elbows on my knees while sitting on my butt, I hear something coming down the hill very fast towards me. I am inside the edge of wilderness so who knows what is coming at me, and so for my own safety, I had to look. Well here comes this large Garter Snake moving very fast right towards me, behavior completely nontypical for a snake, and I've had plenty of pet snakes as a kid. So this snake is coming right at me crawls over my rifle, between my feet & butt and out the other side and without slowing down it flies off the 20' ledge to the ground below. It is right then I realized, 'I took my eyes off the tree!' I know that snake was no coincidence. I just hope it wasn't shapeshifting because if so, I had a bigfoot run under my legs. lol Anyway besides the four I have seen, I have also had many other non-visual encounters too, a few of those that are further outside the F&B explanation as well. I can sense their presence too which I realize is a gift. I know there is purpose in my experiences that I, like you, am trying to understand. I have no need to prove their existence either because I have experienced enough proof for my satisfaction.

My experience aside and to address your question. I do not believe that full thought has gone into the 'what will happen if they are proven question'. Many people see the solution being that they will receive Federal Protection and that will take care of them. What I realize is that once their existence is proven, there will be 'elements' of our society that do not care about the laws. I fear a Black Market, or at least an attempt at filling one, will be created. I fear that certain third world countries will see their soon valuable parts as life giving, healing, rejuvenating, aphrodisiacs, etc. Similar to Tiger bone, bear gallbladder, and all the other animal parts that are wrongly used in various superstitious societies. Laws here and in Canada won't protect them in remote parts of the world once the wrong element learns they really do exist. Even here, I know that laws don't stop poaching of prized trophies just for horns and the meat is left to rot. This subject is even the topic of my next blog post, but it is not yet complete because I keep getting sidetracked. I started a thread here several months ago on the Ramifications of Proving Their Existence too, where some of this was also raised, so like I said, I have been thinking about this for a while.

I can also understand the perspective of your people. I have certain thoughts on this beyond what I'll post here too. I have tried to speak with elders in the past on my concerns but I am still an outsider. I think they wonder how can someone who does not even look Indian have so many encounters? Why trust him? Well, I fear something will be missed by NA's if they ignore the issue too long. They have little reason to trust from past experiences, but maybe there is a lesson for NA's too in that there may be a time when they need to act proactively, or their input will not even be considered when the time does come.

Those are some of my thoughts on it Bagwajinini.

You have an interesting avatar name. Oh mah. In my language that name means "right here". The things you have said get into the realm of things I simply can not disclose. I'm sorry. As far as you being an outsider and still seeing is no surprise to me. I believe in one of my posts I quote my medicine man uncle who passed away now. "The world is open to those with open minds and room to learn"- David "Earl" Hoagland White Earth reservation.

[Guest]

That isn't my avatar name, that is a rank BFF uses for the number of posts a person has made on the forum. Funny thing though that just as you would notice and mention Oh Mah, my ranking would click to the next level Chiye-tanka at 750 posts. lol Go figure as they say.

Oh and don't worry about what you can't go into, I have good insight on much of it.