What Would Be The Ramifications Of Bigfoot Discovery

[Huntster]

2 hours ago, hiflier said:

.......Bottom line: There are no legal repercussions for taking a DNA sample out of the woods.   

 

Dude, you're not even supposed to pick the flowers.

 

https://www.fs.fed.us/wildflowers/ethics/index.shtml

 

Les Stroud got fined several thousand dollars for commercially filming in a National Park without a permit.

[hiflier]

Apples and oranges, Huntster. What do those things have to do with filtering water? Campers do it all the time. Especially the ones who wilderness camp. Why is everyone so against this e-DNA thing that they will pick anything and everything to shoot it down. Think, people, think and stop trying to throw up roadblocks against something you know is right. A thousand emails could have been sent from the start of this thread up 'til now. Five days worth of emails to academia. Oh, but nope. Too busy trying to discount and trash a proven DNA methodology that I've been explaining for the last eight months. Now it's moved on to can't pick flowers, and can't film in national parks. Like that has anything to do with anything. Fun ain't it?

 

Now. Where are my stupid downvotes? C'mon now. Cough 'em up!

Edited May 30, 2020 by hiflier

[bipedalist]

23 hours ago, ShadowBorn said:

To squeeze the trigger is not the problem. It is getting one in front of your sight when you want to kill one that's the problem. There have been many times I have thought on how I would drag one of these creatures to my truck. Then lifting the creature on the tail gate covering it up so that no one could see what I killed. Thinking to my self how I would hide it's bloody big feet. Never even thinking of an explanation if I was stopped by the police or even the DNR.  This was our talk every time we went hunting . My self and my friend Derek who knows about my encounters. 

 The problem would be is finding a freezer for it until I can talk to with people to send the creature to a lab. I am very sure that no one would even know if this ever took placed. I would not want to be in the public eye . At one time money was a thing for me but that has changed . Why should the public know who did the deed. My belief is that who ever does do the deed should not be known. If they are truly for science then they should remain unknown and let science sort it out. If our Gov has a specimen then let it remain for ever unknown. It is best for best worlds to remain unknown. Besides I kind a like it the way it is now. .

 

Owning a thermoking trailer would solve all your problems;  Tarps and strapping would easily cover what you've got with a long bed pickup to get it to your trailer.  If you need more than that call in the National Guard and go to plan B.  Or cut off head/limb and bury the rest. Good luck out there, I'm not into the business of hauling 

Edited May 30, 2020 by bipedalist

[hiflier]

9 hours ago, hiflier said:

Now. Where are my stupid downvotes? C'mon now. Cough 'em up!

 

Thanks. That's more like it  

[BlobSquatch]

We would finally have to chase after other pursuits, like oh, why is there air?

Edited May 30, 2020 by BlobSquatch

[ShadowBorn]

11 hours ago, bipedalist said:

Owning a thermoking trailer would solve all your problems;  Tarps and strapping would easily cover what you've got with a long bed pickup to get it to your trailer.  If you need more than that call in the National Guard and go to plan B.  Or cut off head/limb and bury the rest. Good luck out there, I'm not into the business of hauling

Bipedalist

I am not sure about you but as for me I am not sure I can cut the head or even limbs resembling humans. I have no problem with deer and other animals but anything that even looks humans well that's a different problem. I am sure that there are people out there that might have the same problem as well unless they are completely fine with that. If they are then they must have either been a doctor or are use to handling body parts. But then again I was being sarcastic in my comment when I wrote what I wrote.

 

This is why if I was to shoot one I would take the whole body.  I Can not see my self in the middle of the night sawing off body parts getting all bloody . That to me just sounds so sick in the thought of it. One hacking and sawing on something that looks so human and having this thought going through your head. I think that this would keep one up at night. Sorry for the off topic.

[SWWASAS]

22 hours ago, hiflier said:

 

I know that.

 

 

Yep, and what's the method they use these days to determine that? It's called D-N-A. And when they run that test they will be in for a big surprise.

 

 

That was in the Summer of '96. This is 2020, the age of DNA in both criminal investigations and in determining just about everything a finger bone would show right down to haplotype. The finger bone would look Human. The MODERN investigation methods would show different. Those investigations would also show that the bone had been mechanically severed and not chew off by an animal. Mechanical severing is serious business. That's why trying to present it to a lab could by quite problematic and so needs to be handled carefully.

 

I re-read your last two posts. You don't mention DNA and so I gather you're avoiding it, or even somehow indirectly dismissing it. I assure you it is a real part of the picture now. I'm 71 and normally resist change and new things in general. But in the case of DNA I have wholly accepted it because I have made myself understand it. If it wasn't for the discovery of the nests in the OP I may not have bothered to dig into the way that I have. I can say now that I'm glad I did. My how things change  The issue I see is that DNA is not the first go-to by many here. Example: Dr. Meldrum used it in an effort to determine a novel primate, Disotell ran the tests. Mayor used it too. But BF researchers here STILL think they have to come up with one or more body parts in order to show there's a Sasquatch in the woods. No question that if one happened across one that was dead, or "got killed", then it could be very advantageous for proof. But I'll be danged if I'm going to wait for that to happen when there is this amazing DNA technology available. Trying to get a voucher specimen, or a piece of one, shouldn't mean DNA technology gets left to collect dust on the shelf. It is a powerful tool that we all should try to get deployed by some means. The best candidates for doing the sampling live at the universities in everyone's state.

 

Bottom line: There are no legal repercussions for taking a DNA sample out of the woods.   

Relative to the find of a finger bone of unknown origin without strata or anything to date it as old,   it may be tested for DNA but only if they think it was there as the result of a crime.  However States in the PNW have literally hundreds of samples of DNA linked to crime that have yet to be tested.    Rape kits.  The reason given for lack of testing is money.      In the case of Kennewick man the test would show he was human,  because he was.    His bone morphology showed that he was human.      No one would likely carry that any further with carbon dating unless something like the arrow head or strata indicated the skeleton might be ancient.     The reason being, according to a University of Oregon PHD,  a carbon dating test costs over $800 dollars.   Based on what we have seen with BF related to DNA testing,   I would bet money that if a found finger was tested at all,  it would be interpreted as contaminated human.   Should it test out as some kind of ape,  the question would be how it got there, not proof of existence of BF.  . 

 

The problem for me with DNA testing,   is that it seems just as hard to get a DNA sample to test as it is to get a BF on a lab table.   Anything other than DNA viable tissue is not likely to result in viable DNA to test.   Hair hasn't,   blood has yet to be collected,  and testing objects BF have supposedly touched, nothing has yielded a positive test.    Of the options getting materials to test,    shooting one, find one hit by a logging truck, or find find one killed by a natural calamity, only shooting one seems to be in the control of humans to achieve.    And in spite of people trying, that has not produced a body yet.  At this point in time with my research area gone inactive, I would have no idea where to even go to collect E-DNA.   Others may have contact,  but for whatever reason,   are not trying to collect DNA.    Cost, lack of knowledge about how to do it, or not knowing where to do it are likely reasons.  Testing hair seems to be a dead end,   testing scat is a race against time and bacterial degradation.  and BF seem to collect their dead.   While DNA testing sounds like a easy thing to do,  in actuality it is not.  

[hiflier]

7 minutes ago, SWWASAS said:

While DNA testing sounds like a easy thing to do,  in actuality it is not

 

Never said it was easy. But it's a helluva lot easier and cheaper than buying gear and a rifle/ammo and carrying the stuff around. A BF could run circles round anyone set up like that and probably has thousands of times. And then there's the amount of territory one is trying to get to and cover. E-DNa can do all of that in a fraction of the time and cover way more territory- at a fraction of the cost. But hey, there's a general mindset against the technology that would rather work up a hundred excuses to shoot the method down. Fine. Live in the dark ages of BF research. There are scientists that we all know well that are showing the way but I advise you, don't listen to them. Their scientists after all so what do that know.

 

E-DNA is snake oil. It's witchcraft. It's a useless waste of time. And because people don't know how to use it, or how other people use it, then it's only a conjured dark art meant for the ignorant who somehow have been duped into thinking e-DNA is real science. It's only a sham and a scam to throw all the REAL BF researchers off the trail. That trail being to individually scour the woods for a footprint which as we all know is the ONLY way to success. Because e-DNA is just a big fat lie and will never amount to anything once the stupid fad wears off. I have all the confidence in the world that the whole idea will go away and science will come to their senses, and go buy gear and guns instead so that they, too, can spend 30 years looking for the Bigfoot with nothing to show for it just like Cliff Barackman. Then, by golly, we'll get to the bottom of this mystery for sure.

 

Maybe someone can find a scientist to tag along with at that point, but if one of them dares pull out an e-DNA? Then run the other way and head for the dark ages in a hurry because their all just a bunch of side-show quacks who don't know what they are doing. Especially when this happens because they won't know enough to tell the difference:

 

31 minutes ago, SWWASAS said:

....if a found finger was tested at all,  it would be interpreted as contaminated human.   

 

Good reason to pretend we've never left the 1960's again, eh?  

 

Uh....downvotes anyone?    

[GK Chesterton]

On 24 May 2020 at 10:02 PM, hiflier said:

Okay, I'll start this off by stating something that a lot of members have chimed in on. And that is does the government know about this creature. Some of you are of the opinion that government doesn't care one way or the other whether or not Bigfoot exists. Some, including me, have said it doesn't seem possible that government wouldn't know about the existence of the creature. Considering the surveillance level of outfits like the Border Patrol and even more mundane groups like the ones that monitor migration patterns of things like ungulates, along with tagging bears and other animals like mountain lions and even wolves, it would seem difficult to think that Sasquatch is an unknown.

 

Agencies like USF&W, with their forensics lab in Ashland, Oregon (of all places!), and the Forestry Service, both state and federal, plus the BLM and the logging industry, coupled with various state and local agencies with their respective departments of natural resources, one could hardly hold onto the opinion that Sasquatch is an unknown quantity. And that all plays into "government" knowing but not caring? I think the government actually cares very much, but then, that leads right into why Bigfoot existence hasn't been made public. Does it exist, or does it not? Well, there are knowers here that claim that the creature is VERY real. Thousands of reports also suggest that the creature is real. Then what gives? And that returns the subject to what the ramifications would be should the public become aware that the Bigfoot is real. 

 

I don't for one moment understand why the government would be hiding the existence of Sasquatch or how they'd possibly hope to get away with it.

I mistrust governments, who lie all the time and keep terrible secrets, but I can't see this one as a likelihood. 

Nor can I see how discovering ,or confirming, a new species would rock the foundations of society , religion or anything else. It happens all the time.

It'd diminish the Bigfoot 'hunting' industry, but it'd create a whole new potential for viewing and studying them, so no harm done there either.

 

You reasonably suggest that they'd probably pick it up on one of the various surveillance systems, but if anything the fact that they haven't tends to suggest that it isn't there. I mean, I really do hope it is there, but the absence of any appearances on security footage isn't a good sign.

 

I'll add to that by saying that I know the British Army has the technology to detect heartbeats and body temperatures in very wide areas of bush, so I'm quite certain that the US Army can do that too. This being so, they've probably got the ability to solve the mystery haven't they ?

 

Why don't they then ?

 

[hiflier]

38 minutes ago, GK Chesterton said:

You reasonably suggest that they'd probably pick it up on one of the various surveillance systems, but if anything the fact that they haven't tends to suggest that it isn't there. I mean, I really do hope it is there, but the absence of any appearances on security footage isn't a good sign.

 

Personally, I'm not so sure that they haven't. And I'm certainly not cleared to see security footage by any stretch in order to know.

 

38 minutes ago, GK Chesterton said:

This being so, they've probably got the ability to solve the mystery haven't they ?

 

Again, I not sure they haven't "solved" the mystery already because yes, they have the ability. So it comes down to which side of the economic coin things would fall on. Non-existence? The bottom falls out of the Bigfoot biz, where the BF authors, conferences, vendors, Forums and BF trinket industry take a hit that is more or less permanent. Existence? Then the resource industry takes what would amount to the biggest hit, but I see that as only being temporary until work-arounds get introduced. Explaining things to the public will be a pretty rough road as well. 

Edited May 31, 2020 by hiflier

[7.62]

On 5/28/2020 at 11:53 PM, ShadowBorn said:

To squeeze the trigger is not the problem. It is getting one in front of your sight when you want to kill one that's the problem. There have been many times I have thought on how I would drag one of these creatures to my truck. Then lifting the creature on the tail gate covering it up so that no one could see what I killed. Thinking to my self how I would hide it's bloody big feet. Never even thinking of an explanation if I was stopped by the police or even the DNR.  This was our talk every time we went hunting . My self and my friend Derek who knows about my encounters. 

 The problem would be is finding a freezer for it until I can talk to with people to send the creature to a lab. I am very sure that no one would even know if this ever took placed. I would not want to be in the public eye . At one time money was a thing for me but that has changed . Why should the public know who did the deed. My belief is that who ever does do the deed should not be known. If they are truly for science then they should remain unknown and let science sort it out. If our Gov has a specimen then let it remain for ever unknown. It is best for best worlds to remain unknown. Besides I kind a like it the way it is now. .

All this would be thought out and planned in advance if your goal when out was to hunt a bigfoot . The person who would find himself asking these questions is someone who stumbles on to one and decides to shot and kill it but I still believe  many who think they would shoot one if the case presented it self wouldn't squeeze the trigger when looking at it's face through the scope.

 

This is if in fact they look as human as Patty did . With those modern enhanced images it's like looking at a humans face  so I do think the biggest problem would be having the will for most.

[hiflier]

I agree. You know, the DNA approach is so good on so many levels. The cool part is that nothing has to die. But people don't think it's good enough. I mean it's really only good for bears and such, right? That seems to be all anyone finds anyway. That, and those danged contaminating Humans  Unless someone sends out the forest equivalent of a Mars Rover to collect soil samples and run them on site to see what's what. 

Edited May 31, 2020 by hiflier

[Huntster]

2 hours ago, GK Chesterton said:

.......I'll add to that by saying that I know the British Army has the technology to detect heartbeats and body temperatures in very wide areas of bush, so I'm quite certain that the US Army can do that too. This being so, they've probably got the ability to solve the mystery haven't they ?

 

Why don't they then ?

 

Who says they haven't, but they just haven't told you about it?

[Guest Paddlehiker]

I agree with ya Huntster. I’m convinced the Canadian government knows all about them; the MNRF here does. And obviously the US military & government knows of them. 

[SWWASAS]

Speaking about DNA found this in an ad.       The Bering land bridge is starting to get problematic to explain.     Dusty is a NA man from the Blackfoot Tribe in Montana.    He is 85%  NA.

 

 

"DUSTY’S DNA DISCOVERY

 

So Dusty took a CRI Ancestry Test at the urging of his late brother Willy, who passed away before Dusty could receive his results.

 

That’s a shame, because Dusty discovered something that would have shocked his late brother. With his CRI Genetics DNA test, Dusty was able to trace his ancestry back a whopping 17,000 years.

 

More surprising than that, he found that his North American ancestry was OLDER than the land bridge that once connected Siberia to Alaska—and that he’d been told in school was the place his ancestors came from.

 

Instead, Crawford’s results suggest that his ancestors came not by bridge, but by boat—as his closest genetic ancestors come from the Pacific Islands, not Siberia.

 

The current theory is that Crawford’s ancestors—some of the first people to set foot in the Americas—came by boat to South America. They would have then worked their way North over many generations of travel.

 

In fact, remains found in Peru contain DNA from the same haplogroup as Dusty Crawford—meaning that he can trace his lineage DIRECTLY back down to Peru—and back across the Pacific Ocean."