Can this be right? FLIR for < $100 ??

[hiflier]

NV can be passive or active depending on the amount of ambient light available. Good stars, good moon, fair to good equipment, good passive NV capability. Cloudy or very dark as in no moon then a built in IR illuminator can "light up" a target and save an expedition from being a complete washout. And yes, correct, thermal imaging devices are completely passive.

 

NCBFr's Barska NXV 100 is probably the same as mine. A pretty fair Gen I. It has some nice features: passive NV, 7 levels of IR illumination, image and video capture and a modest digital zoom with diopter to focus the internal screen display. Oh, and very light weight with a standard 1/4-20 threaded socket for tripod mounting. A lot of perks there for what they cost.

Edited July 21, 2020 by hiflier

[NCBFr]

Yep, that is 100% correct.  I bought the NVX100 when basic FLIR was over $1K.  FLIR has a lot of uses and is great for passively locating something like a BF.  But if you know roughly where something is due to sounds these NV/IR cannot be beat for the money.  There would be no argument over the floating cow if I scanned the area with IR and then snapped a pic.

[hiflier]

....or took a video  When I'm out I cannot put myself through the 4-5 hours straight that it would take to go through a set of batteries. I run lithium AA's and they do really well. Even so I don't store the unit now with batteries installed, although I used to with no issues. As you know, the screen, similar to NorthWind's unit isn't dimmable so I stuck a circular piece of exposed film leader in between the rubber eyepiece and the unit and helps a lot with toning down the display to a slight brownish hue. It is also said that with monocular units keeping both eyes open when viewing with one eye or the other helps with not losing one's night sight. Of course the FLIR is dimmable so no problems there.

 

When I first fired up the Barska I was genuinely surprised at its resolution and ability to see out better than 100 yards with its IR turned on. With a Full Moon my spouse says she can't tell the difference between seeing with the NV and seeing with the Moon's light. But you know as well as I do that when it comes to seeing into the dark shadows the Moon creates? Thet's when the IR really "shines" so to speak. The thermal ,too, for that matter since the Moon has no effect on heat signatures. To have both NV/IR and thermal units simply covers all the bases. Adding an recorder recorder into the mix just slathers icing on the cake since neither the thermal nor the NV/IR have audio capability.....imagine if they did!

Edited July 21, 2020 by hiflier

[wiiawiwb]

Would you consider having both NV and thermal or is it one or the other?

[norseman]

1 hour ago, NCBFr said:

Yep, that is 100% correct.  I bought the NVX100 when basic FLIR was over $1K.  FLIR has a lot of uses and is great for passively locating something like a BF.  But if you know roughly where something is due to sounds these NV/IR cannot be beat for the money.  There would be no argument over the floating cow if I scanned the area with IR and then snapped a pic.

FLIR = Forward Looking Infra Red (Sees heat)

 

IR = Infra Red (Same)

 

NV = Night Vision (Ambient light amplifier)

 

Im getting confused with the terms. What does NV/IR mean? Are you talking about an IR emitter that helps NV see by giving it more light to amplify?

20 minutes ago, wiiawiwb said:

Would you consider having both NV and thermal or is it one or the other?

I know which one I would want as a weapons sight.

[hiflier]

19 minutes ago, norseman said:

What does NV/IR mean? Are you talking about an IR emitter that helps NV see by giving it more light to amplify?

 

Exactly. I wrote it as NV/IR to show it as a combo technology in one package. The IR is used when needed, i.e. not enough ambient light for passive NV.

 

19 minutes ago, norseman said:

I know which one I would want as a weapons sight.

 

Me also, because these cheaper units, while okay for detecting something is around, are no way near the caliber (see what I did there?) one should have for serious hunting or surveillance. And in truth, nowhere near what would be required to even come close to saying "that's a Sasquatch". But I'm not being apologetic because these low end units are still a helluva lot better that peering into the darkness with normal Human vision. They have their place- hunting just isn't one of them because responsible hunting means knowing what one is shooting at and the low end electronics will never give one that kind of confidence when it comes to hunting bipeds

 

And that's the bottom line here right? It's a Bigfoot Forum.

Edited July 21, 2020 by hiflier

[wiiawiwb]

We use whatever instruments we have to do the work at hand. When I made my decision of what equipment I wanted, the IR aspect steered me away from considering NV.  We obviously have no way to confirm whether a sasquatch can detect IR or not but I didn't want to take any chances.

 

Another reason I chose thermal equipment was the type of terrain I am in at night. I'm always under the cover of trees so there is less light to amplify even on a clear night. That means I'd need an IR source, or emitter, and that was just going to complicate things.

 

I do almost all of my sasquatching in areas only accessible by backpacking into it. That eliminates anyone who may come and go easily by car.  It also puts me out alone so I have no competition if a sasquatch wants to watch and investigate a human. I find that a thermal provides excellent camp security because now I can see someone (and hopefully something) coming long before it sees me and can take appropriate measures.

 

The ability to see at night is a game changer for us in many ways.

[NCBFr]

11 hours ago, norseman said:

Im getting confused with the terms. What does NV/IR mean? Are you talking about an IR emitter that helps NV see by giving it more light to amplify?

I know which one I would want as a weapons sight.

 

FLIR passively sees IR heat radiations as the hotter the object the greater the amount of IR radiation it radiates.  IR technology in the case of the NVX100 is nothing more than a simple flashlight and receiver that can emit and see the reflection of IR wavelength light which is outside the visible spectrum of most animals.  No different than a normal flashlight other than most creatures will not know that they are being painted by it. 

 

And yes, there is some anecdotal evidence that BF can see in the IR spectrum but I would not bet on it.  From an evolutionary perspective I doubt it would give them any advantage and you got to think their eyes evolved pretty much the same as hominids.  BFs absolutely have superior eyesight to hominids but I believe that is simply due to the fact they have much larger eyes which would give them significantly more  Rod cells.

 

As a scope I would probably take FLIR if I could afford it as I think (but don't know) it will give you better penetrating power and field of view.  However, if you are hunting BF,  I would not rely on FLIR as you will have a very hard time distinguishing between a BF and a human.  Sure the BF may present a larger target, but do you want to bet manslaughter on that guess?

 

PS - Forget NV in this discussion as it is worthless except under optimal circumstances. 

10 hours ago, hiflier said:

And that's the bottom line here right? It's a Bigfoot Forum.

 

Well sort of as it is also a hunting, gun/knife, camping, survivalist, car, cool equipment, paranormal, UFO, history, evolutionary biology, anatomy, and human nature (good and bad) forum to name a few.

Edited July 21, 2020 by NCBFr

[norseman]

3 hours ago, NCBFr said:

 

FLIR passively sees IR heat radiations as the hotter the object the greater the amount of IR radiation it radiates.  IR technology in the case of the NVX100 is nothing more than a simple flashlight and receiver that can emit and see the reflection of IR wavelength light which is outside the visible spectrum of most animals.  No different than a normal flashlight other than most creatures will not know that they are being painted by it. 

 

And yes, there is some anecdotal evidence that BF can see in the IR spectrum but I would not bet on it.  From an evolutionary perspective I doubt it would give them any advantage and you got to think their eyes evolved pretty much the same as hominids.  BFs absolutely have superior eyesight to hominids but I believe that is simply due to the fact they have much larger eyes which would give them significantly more  Rod cells.

 

As a scope I would probably take FLIR if I could afford it as I think (but don't know) it will give you better penetrating power and field of view.  However, if you are hunting BF,  I would not rely on FLIR as you will have a very hard time distinguishing between a BF and a human.  Sure the BF may present a larger target, but do you want to bet manslaughter on that guess?

 

PS - Forget NV in this discussion as it is worthless except under optimal circumstances. 

 

Well sort of as it is also a hunting, gun/knife, camping, survivalist, car, cool equipment, paranormal, UFO, history, evolutionary biology, anatomy, and human nature (good and bad) forum to name a few.

I caught on to what you guys were referring to as IR. Thank you!

 

Ive played with high end FLIR? I think you could easily tell the difference between a man and a Bigfoot. Not only size but clothing, etc.

 

 

[hiflier]

Norseman, didn't you once comment on using FLIR to find hotspots left over from in a location that had a fire? At least I think it was you. In either case I do remember someone saying that which was my first introduction to that kind of application. I had a rep from FLUKE come to my company before my retirement and I went to a seminar to learn how to use an $8,000+ unit to find building draft leaks and do assessments for energy savings. Heh, I found myself wanting one even back then  

[norseman]

3 minutes ago, hiflier said:

Norseman, didn't you once comment on using FLIR to find hotspots left over from in a location that had a fire? At least I think it was you. In either case I do remember someone saying that which was my first introduction to that kind of application. I had a rep from FLUKE come to my company before my retirement and I went to a seminar to learn how to use an $8,000+ unit to find building draft leaks and do assessments for energy savings. Heh, I found myself wanting one even back then  

We had a hand held unit at the FD.

 

But it was caveman tech compared to this Trijicon scope that I’m drooling over.

[hiflier]

Good, my memory isn't completely shot then LOL. And yeah, that Trijicon is anything but caveman. Dunno, you've been that unit for a few days now. I mean, there's only so much droolin' and shirt changin' anyone can do.

Edited July 21, 2020 by hiflier

[VAfooter]

For reference (from Wiki):

 

Night vision technologies

Night vision technologies can be broadly divided into three main categories: image intensification, active illumination, and thermal imaging.

 

Image intensification

Main article: Image intensifier

This magnifies the amount of received photons from various natural sources such as starlight or moonlight. Examples of such technologies include night glasses and low light cameras. In the military context, Image Intensifiers are often called "Low Light TV" since the video signal is often transmitted to a display within a control center. These are usually integrated into a sensor containing both visible and IR detectors and the streams are used independently or in fused mode, depending on the mission at hand's requirements

 

The image intensifier is a vacuum-tube based device (photomultiplier tube) that can generate an image from a very small number of photons (such as the light from stars in the sky) so that a dimly lit scene can be viewed in real-time by the naked eye via visual output, or stored as data for later analysis. While many believe the light is "amplified," it is not. When light strikes a charged photocathode plate, electrons are emitted through a vacuum tube and strike the microchannel plate. This causes the image screen to illuminate with a picture in the same pattern as the light that strikes the photocathode and on a wavelength the human eye can see. This is much like a CRT television, but instead of color guns the photocathode does the emitting.

 

The image is said to become "intensified" because the output visible light is brighter than the incoming light, and this effect directly relates to the difference in passive and active night vision goggles. Currently, the most popular image intensifier is the drop-in ANVIS module, though many other models and sizes are available at the market. Recently, the US Navy announced intentions to procure a dual-color variant of the ANVIS for use in the cockpit of airborne platforms.

 

 

Active illumination

Active illumination couples imaging intensification technology with an active source of illumination in the near infrared (NIR) or shortwave infrared (SWIR) band. Examples of such technologies include low light cameras.

Active infrared night-vision combines infrared illumination of spectral range 700–1,000 nm (just below the visible spectrum of the human eye) with CCD cameras sensitive to this light. The resulting scene, which is apparently dark to a human observer, appears as a monochrome image on a normal display device. Because active infrared night-vision systems can incorporate illuminators that produce high levels of infrared light, the resulting images are typically higher resolution than other night-vision technologies. Active infrared night vision is now commonly found in commercial, residential and government security applications, where it enables effective night time imaging under low-light conditions. However, since active infrared light can be detected by night-vision goggles, there can be a risk of giving away position in tactical military operations.

 

Laser range gated imaging is another form of active night vision which utilizes a high powered pulsed light source for illumination and imaging. Range gating is a technique which controls the laser pulses in conjunction with the shutter speed of the camera's detectors. Gated imaging technology can be divided into single shot, where the detector captures the image from a single light pulse, and multi-shot, where the detector integrates the light pulses from multiple shots to form an image. One of the key advantages of this technique is the ability to perform target recognition rather than mere detection, as is the case with thermal imaging.

 

 

Thermal vision

Thermal imaging detects the temperature difference between background and foreground objects. Some organisms are able to sense a crude thermal image by means of special organs that function as bolometers. This allows thermal infrared sensing in snakes, which functions by detecting thermal radiation.

 

Thermal imaging cameras are excellent tools for night vision. They detect thermal radiation and do not need a source of illumination. They produce an image in the darkest of nights and can see through light fog, rain, and smoke (to a certain extent). Thermal imaging cameras make small temperature differences visible. They are widely used to complement new or existing security networks, and for night vision on aircraft, where they are commonly referred to as "FLIR" (for "forward-looking infrared"). When coupled with additional cameras (for example, a visible spectrum camera or SWIR) multispectral sensors are possible, which take advantage of the benefits of each detection band's capabilities. Contrary to misconceptions portrayed in the media, thermal imagers cannot "see" through solid objects (walls, for example), nor can they see through glass or acrylic, as both these materials have their own thermal signature and are opaque to long wave infrared radiation

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_vision

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[hiflier]

Thank you for that, VAFooter. So it would seem that having NV coupled with an IR emitter (when needed) AND a thermal imager does more or less cover all the visual bases that a BF researcher could need. Add in an audio device and research in the field would be nicely rounded out. After that it comes down to how much one wants, or sees fit, spend to have better image resolution. At the very least, a NV device with IR emission option/capability is the least one might have in their "tool" bag. Those can be had for about half the cost of even the thermal imaging device one can mount onto iPhones.

 

You know, it's easy to justify having these two main devices, a recorder and at least one trail cam (with audio) for doing field work. That said, the bill can add up for doing research. But, IMHO, the trade off in confidence and potential image capture of our quarry makes the investments- even over time- well worth it. Animals move around and successfully finding a good print to cast, or any print for that matter doesn't happen for everyone. The truth of the matter is, even an image capture of a deer or some other animal is very rewarding. That said, I have never regretted my low-end purchases and always look forward to deploying the different technologies whenever, and wherever, I can  

[wiiawiwb]

I believe with a thermal imager you have the ability to see handprints on trees or footprints on a path if they are recent.