Opinions on the BFRO?

[norseman]

57 minutes ago, hiflier said:

 

But that isn't the case. &300-500 gets you into the group and that's it. Someone who isn't a woodsperson STILL has to go and outfit themselves for camping overnight, feed themselves and get themselves to wherever the expedition is. In other words, sure, one gets to use the technology provided, like thermal equipment and such but getting to the location ready to camp one or two nights and feed oneself? All on the attendees. So it's actually $500 PLUS gear, food and travel expenses. If I'm wrong on any of that just let me know because I won't even go to the BFRO website to find out.

I wasn’t aware of that. So you have to bring your own tent, grub and camping gear? 🤨

[BlackRockBigfoot]

1 hour ago, norseman said:

I wasn’t aware of that. So you have to bring your own tent, grub and camping gear? 🤨

From what I understand, yes.   I believe that some BFRO folks will give attendees a bit of training on equipment, which I assume means letting them at least try out some of the stuff.  

 

But otherwise, the $500 basically gets you the privilege of hanging out with some BFRO people.  

 

I wonder if the outings are officially permitted.  That's how Bob Garrett got into legal trouble down in the Big Thicket... running paids outings within proper licensing.

[BobbyO]

7 hours ago, Redbone said:

 

 Here is a link... enjoy https://web.archive.org/web/20160411043615/http://s2.excoboard.com/BFRO

 

 

Man the amount of times they banned me from there ! lol

[wiiawiwb]

8 hours ago, norseman said:

Not trying to beat you up, but I have some points of contention to discuss. In some ways I agree that many people don’t even know how to start. They pay 500 bucks and every thing is taken care of for them. Easy.

 

But....

 

The BFRO is doing this on the QT. They do not have the permits to be doing what they are doing on US Forest Service land.

 

Hiring a pro photographer or ski instructor is not the same as going on a BFRO expedition. Why? Because the BFRO hasn’t produced definitive results. None of us have. So boiled down to brass tacks? It’s like your hiring a guy with boards strapped on his feet that is telling you this is the way he THINKS it’s gonna work when you get to the top of the hill.😬

 

The BFRO has some strange rules that make zero sense like a curfew where no one is allowed out of their tent after midnight or whatever. If something big is outside my tent at 2 am? I’m going out armed. Not into being the taco meat center in a nylon wrapped tortilla taco. 

 

If there are permits that should be secured and aren't, shame on them, but that's a completely different issue.  The same goes for a curfew. These are micro-issues which don't detract from the overarching idea that the BFRO provides an opportunity for someone to get out on an actual BF expedition. I'm confident that no promises are made that definitive results will occur on the expedition.

 

People pay exorbitant prices for all sorts of entertainment. SuperBowl tickets, hot air-balloon rides, and many others come to mind.

 

In the hunting world, people incur enormous costs (in the 5-figures?) to go on a guided brown-bear hunt on Kodiak Island. I'm confident no guide service guarantees a brown bear will be had at the end of the hunt yet people spend oodles of dollars for the opportunity to go on such a hunt. A sasquatch expedition is a hunt of another type except it might cost the $500 fee plus some new clothing and equipment (tent). Minuscule by comparison.

 

I think all of this is great. It gets people out in the outdoors, gets them into a new world called sasquatching, and everyone has a good time. As I said before, it's a win-win arrangement that everyone gladly enters into.

 

 

[Huntster]

1 hour ago, wiiawiwb said:

........In the hunting world, people incur enormous costs (in the 5-figures?) to go on a guided brown-bear hunt on Kodiak Island. I'm confident no guide service guarantees a brown bear will be had at the end of the hunt yet people spend oodles of dollars for the opportunity to go on such a hunt. A sasquatch expedition is a hunt of another type except it might cost the $500 fee plus some new clothing and equipment (tent). Minuscule by comparison.........

 

A Kodiak brown bear hunt costs about $20K. Brown bear hunts elsewhere in Alaska and in Siberia can cost almost half that. Polar bear hunts, illegal everywhere else, can cost over $40K in Canada. Such prices are driven by legally limited opportunity, lots of competition for those opportunities by plenty of guys with lots of money to burn, and transport access to some of the most remote spots on Earth. 

 

If BFRO was to conduct a bigfoot hunt in a remote area like Misty Fiords National Park or Kushtaka Lake in Alaska and provide the final leg of travel like hunting guides do, the cost would also have to be in the thousands. 

 

While all guided big game hunts do not offer guarantees (a few do), the odds are proven to be well over 50% of actually bagging the quarry. The odds of not even seeing multiple bears is very low. You will watch many bears with your optics (the guides do not provide personal hunting equipment, but do feed and tent you). 

 

That all said, brown and polar bears occupy open country. Like sasquatches, black bears occupy forested terrain. Guided black bear hunts tend to be hunts over bait. The fact that such a bear hunting tactic has not produced a single sasquatch report is remarkable, because they are conducted in some of the presumably best sasquatch habitat on the continent. 

[cmknight]

The US $400 price tag doesn't just go into the general coffers of the BFRO. The organizers of the expeditions get reimbursed their out-of-pocket expenses researching the area they want to take attendees. That $400 is also for the attendee and a guest, so if you want to take another person with you on your camping trip, you are both covered. As for NDA's, some expeds have them ... I have never filled one out. Also, the three trips I went on, were always as a guest of a BFRO member, so I never had to pay. I did, however, have to supply my own equipment and food. As an avid camper, I already had my own gear, so, meh ... didn't/doesn't bother me. "Technically", the only ones who don't have to pay to go on a BFRO expedition, are the benefactors. Most organizers will not charge other BFRO members for an expedition, but I do know of one who insists that everyone pays (unless, of course, you are his buddy). At the same time, though, he refers to guests of other attendees as "charity cases" because they don't have to pay (every organization has its designated clown).

 

$400 is not a lot of money if you think about it. People easily spend that much just on camping gear alone. I know of one "researcher" who charges CDN $2500 for his 7-day expeditions to his "secret spot" on northern Vancouver Island. They go out looking for tracks during the day, and at night, he regales his guests with stories of native lore and legends from "Monkey Island" (or "ape Island", as he sometimes calls Vancouver Island). I don't know if he's still doing these expeditions. I stopped communicating with him after his racist rant about "the White man" on Facebook.

Edited August 5, 2020 by cmknight

[vinchyfoot]

19 hours ago, gigantor said:

 

How are they supposed to pay for the research then?

 

All "scientific organizations" get paid one way or another and most have an agenda.

 

 

 

The point being much of what I've read and heard from folks who have been on Expeditions is that they are NOT a Scientific Organization, they're a business masquerading as a Scientific Organization. While there are capable and honest folks in the group, many hang around for the access to the Database, but if it's a business it's not likely about Research, it's about paid expeditions, more like squatch themed tourism, which is imo, a different animal. 

 

As to how do they pay for the research, like so many do, out of pocket including myself. The whole pay 300, plus provide your own gear, transport and food is a rip off without definition as to what any attendees get for their expense imo.

16 hours ago, VAfooter said:

 

 

From what I have read, they always encounter something on an expedition, whether aural, visual, smells, or evidence (tracks, structures, etc.). I may be wrong, but that is the impression I have gotten. I would be interested to hear if anyone has been on an expedition and nothing out of the ordinary occurred.

 

Always encounter something so the attendees will pay for the next time. It's the business model.

[MIB]

27 minutes ago, vinchyfoot said:

The whole pay 300, plus provide your own gear, transport and food is a rip off without definition as to what any attendees get for their expense imo.

 

I think that's bullcrap.   4 days, 3 nights.   For $300.    Consider the alternatives.    Theme park?   How far is that $300 going to go towards 3 nights of hotel, gate fees, and ride tickets?     Something else .. ok, I want to hear it.   A cruise?   For under $300?   I want to see something where you're staying away from home, not with relatives, and participating in something, 3 nights 4 days, so cheap that $300 appears out of line.    I'm waiting.  

 

Truly, if there is something you enjoy that is so much less expensive for the same amount of time and gives you equal enjoyment ... go do that.   Stop trying to piss in others' cheerios just 'cause you're too cheap to buy your own.

 

MIB

 

[gigantor]

37 minutes ago, vinchyfoot said:

The point being much of what I've read and heard from folks who have been on Expeditions is that they are NOT a Scientific Organization, they're a business masquerading as a Scientific Organization

 

I don't think it is, but let's say that's true, so what?

 

38 minutes ago, vinchyfoot said:

As to how do they pay for the research, like so many do, out of pocket including myself.

 

Do you have a website? do you have a public data database? do you have people who investigate the sighting reports?

[Huntster]

 

[BlackRockBigfoot]

On 8/3/2020 at 7:13 PM, Patterson-Gimlin said:

One of my daughters is a member.

I am not a fan. I do like reading the reports.

They don't want anything to do with me.

Not a believer. Definitely pro kill.

Emily says I don't get a third strike.

I bet that if you shelled out those 5 bills they would give you another strike...maybe two

[vinchyfoot]

2 hours ago, MIB said:

 

I think that's bullcrap.   4 days, 3 nights.   For $300.    Consider the alternatives.    Theme park?   How far is that $300 going to go towards 3 nights of hotel, gate fees, and ride tickets?     Something else .. ok, I want to hear it.   A cruise?   For under $300?   I want to see something where you're staying away from home, not with relatives, and participating in something, 3 nights 4 days, so cheap that $300 appears out of line.    I'm waiting.  

 

Truly, if there is something you enjoy that is so much less expensive for the same amount of time and gives you equal enjoyment ... go do that.   Stop trying to **** in others' cheerios just 'cause you're too cheap to buy your own.

 

MIB

 

 

Not Bullcrap, one can do their own work and go out on their own, that's what I did. It's a business pretending to be a research group, at least on the top. You seem very offended over nothing. I throw a backpack, research gear and a hammock and just head out for a few days. Is that so hard?

2 hours ago, gigantor said:

 

I don't think it is, but let's say that's true, so what?

 

 

Do you have a website? do you have a public data database? do you have people who investigate the sighting reports?

 

Do I need that to justify my efforts? Whether I do or I don't isn't anyone's concern. If they only release 10% of the reports then what are they hiding? Maybe the "gateway to the feds" narrative has some merit. It's a business.... not research.

[BlackRockBigfoot]

3 minutes ago, vinchyfoot said:

 

Do I need that to justify my efforts? Whether I do or I don't isn't anyone's concern. 

Couldn't the BFRO make that same argument concerning what they charge consenting adults?

[norseman]

6 hours ago, wiiawiwb said:

 

If there are permits that should be secured and aren't, shame on them, but that's a completely different issue.  The same goes for a curfew. These are micro-issues which don't detract from the overarching idea that the BFRO provides an opportunity for someone to get out on an actual BF expedition. I'm confident that no promises are made that definitive results will occur on the expedition.

 

People pay exorbitant prices for all sorts of entertainment. SuperBowl tickets, hot air-balloon rides, and many others come to mind.

 

In the hunting world, people incur enormous costs (in the 5-figures?) to go on a guided brown-bear hunt on Kodiak Island. I'm confident no guide service guarantees a brown bear will be had at the end of the hunt yet people spend oodles of dollars for the opportunity to go on such a hunt. A sasquatch expedition is a hunt of another type except it might cost the $500 fee plus some new clothing and equipment (tent). Minuscule by comparison.

 

I think all of this is great. It gets people out in the outdoors, gets them into a new world called sasquatching, and everyone has a good time. As I said before, it's a win-win arrangement that everyone gladly enters into.

 

 

Im a firm believer in caveat emptor, the buyer beware. People absolutely can spend their money on what ever they feel like.

 

But by the same token? I have to jump through the hoops and loops of government licensing and permits, etc in order to run a legitimate business.

[vinchyfoot]

Just now, BlackRockBigfoot said:

Couldn't the BFRO make that same argument concerning what they charge consenting adults?

 

I already alluded to some of this. A friend of mine asked them if they paid taxes on all this profit, it was an instant ban, seems a bit sensitive. If folks want to go the lazy route and get spoonfed the Moneymaker narrative that's on them, others can go and figure it out on their own. Easy way vs. hard way. I would rather spend my hard earned on gear and the means of getting where I need to go, I don't get why that's such a negative thing?