Ape not ape

[Incorrigible1]

Here's to you and me, great apes that we are.

[norseman]

1 minute ago, Marty said:

I'm aware of the terminology, but I think we're arguing two different points of view. I'm not saying we aren't Apes by definition, we ARE, genetically and phylogenetically. I'm arguing that calling us Apes undermines how different we actually are as a result of those 7 mys of evolution. We are far more intelligent and the way we control and utilize our environment is completely different from living Apes. Therefore, if we consider Sasquatch a Hominid, we should expect its intellect to be somewhere near our own, and using known Ape behavior to study the animal is a flawed way of going about capturing evidence of a creature with manlike intellect, with Ape-like prowess. It's a weird creature that highlights the best of both worlds. 

Sure. Probably every ape species if they could would argue why they should NOT be lumped in with other apes.

 

Gorillas would be like..... we are waaay stronger! We have evolved way behind a puny Homo Sapien for 7 million years! We aren’t apes in a true sense.

 

Orangutans would be like....... pfffssst! We are the ONLY true ape! Because we spend our whole lives in the forest canopy! Apes don’t live on the ground!!! Don’t call those other species apes! 
 

So forth and so on.

 

I think the mistake your making  Marty is very human centric. Your gauging our superior intelligence as the only yard stick to measure against other ape species. All the other ape species have been evolving for 7 million years too. Just in different directions.

[norseman]

I agree that another bipedal ape species is going to be somewhere on our branch of the tree.

 

Walking bipedal frees up hands to do other tasks. Which requires a bigger brain to complete them. 
 

But this ape species was bipedal, not included in the genus Homo and was nominally as smart as a Chimpanzee.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australopithecus

 

[Marty]

"I think the mistake your making  Marty is very human centric. Your gauging our superior intelligence as the only yard stick to measure against other ape species. All the other ape species have been evolving for 7 million years too. Just in different directions."

True, this is fair, I could be doing so and if that's how I came across than I didn't mean to, I've actually been looking at Orangutans a lot the past couple years and personally think they're in line next to become a vastly intelligent species compared to Chimps. Ancestry does not equate to intellect so to speak, every animal is on its own path. So you are correct. 

[xdivision]

@MartyI tend to lean this way that you describe as well. After my experiences I'm beginning to wonder if humans are not at the top. We may be more civilized but I think we're more self-destructive. These beings have survived a long time with minimal detection and if left alone could very well be the planet dominant. Plenty more to discover I'll tell you that.

[norseman]

Maybe we should list out supposed traits of a Bigfoot and then compare them to the known traits of the genus Homo?

 

For example,

Stone tool manufacture: Homo 1 Bigfoot 0

Fire use: Homo 1 Bigfoot 0

Language: Homo 1 Bigfoot 1

Nocturnal activities: Homo 0 Bigfoot 1

Bipedalism: Homo 1 Bigfoot 1

[norseman]

2 minutes ago, xdivision said:

@MartyI tend to lean this way that you describe as well. After my experiences I'm beginning to wonder if humans are not at the top. We may be more civilized but I think we're more self-destructive. These beings have survived a long time with minimal detection and if left alone could very well be the planet dominant. Plenty more to discover I'll tell you that.

But that’s the part that makes me want to pull my hair out. People will point out that Bigfoot ARE people? And then point out how vastly different we are from them. Real fundamental differences. It doesn’t make sense to me.

 

Chimpanzees are self destructive. They fight wars. If Bigfeet are Homo Sapiens? Then they would have the same relations with Chimpanzees as modern humans would. So would Neanderthals and Denisovans.... 
 

So why aren’t Bigfeet self destructive?

 

If Bigfeet are a bipedal cousin of a Orangutan and only distant cousins to modern humans? Then some of this makes logical sense. Otherwise it really doesn’t. 

[Marty]

Yeah I agree, their temperament screams Orang and Gorilla, so maybe an offshoot? Who knows, maybe our early relatives actually were very cryptic just like Sasquatches and we are seeing ancestral avoidance behavior from extreme evolutionary pressures. Or maybe it's a result of human encroachment and ancient blood wars. We are a very violent species, wouldn't surprise me that we drove others of our kind into hiding. 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Marty

[norseman]

54 minutes ago, Marty said:

Yeah I agree, their temperament screams Orang and Gorilla, so maybe an offshoot? Who knows, maybe our early relatives actually were very cryptic just like Sasquatches and we are seeing ancestral avoidance behavior from extreme evolutionary pressures. Or maybe it's a result of human encroachment and ancient blood wars. We are a very violent species, wouldn't surprise me that we drove others of our kind into hiding. 

Agreed. I don’t think it’s a happenstance that the genus Homo was a “winner take all” style bracket. And there is only one species left..... us. And our common ancestor is Chimpanzees...

 

 

 

 

[xdivision]

 

@norsemanI understand your point of view. I used to think exactly like you do. I was the extreme skeptic. My experience with these beings has changed me and a lot of things I used think a certain way. I cannot explain that I can only tell you what I believe. I kind of formulate my own ideas from multiple sources. I don't know what you think of Scott Carpenter but he pushes it out there in a way that I find valid. I don't know but I think you're up on current affairs but the human race is more destructive to itself than any other animal in the animal kingdom as far as I'm concerned. I'm not obtuse and I understand that animals destroy each other but if you're so smart we definitely should know better.That's just my opinion

Edited April 19, 2021 by xdivision

[norseman]

19 hours ago, xdivision said:

I have heard and have recorded similar chatter from these beings like the Sierra sounds. This for me puts me in the non-ape category.

 

Here is my only problem with the Sierra sounds. I’ve packed mules in the PacNW and been 50 miles from the horse trailer. By myself sometimes too. I’ve never heard anything like that in the woods. Maybe I’m just unlucky. Or these Bigfeet that talk are only in California. Dunno. Or maybe it’s a tribe of Ishi out there and not Bigfeets at all. Or it’s uncle Buck out there hollering into the recorder with a 3 bar octave voice. Again dunno.

 

This is why we need a body. Does it have a hyoid bone? How closely related are we to it? Etc?

[norseman]

5 minutes ago, xdivision said:

 

@norsemanI understand your point of view. I used to think exactly like you do. I was the extreme skeptic. My experience with his bangs has changed me and a lot of things that are used to think or a certain way. I cannot explain that I can only tell you what I've experienced. I kind of formulate my own ideas with multiple sources. I don't know what you think of Scott Carpenter but he pushes it out there in a way that I find valid. I don't know but I think you're up on current affairs but the human race is more destructive to itself than any other animal in the animal kingdom as far as I'm concerned. I'm not obtuse and I understand that animals destroy each other but if you're so smart we definitely should know better.That's just my opinion

Melba Ketchum to me is a hoaxer and a quack geneticist. I don’t know this Carpenter fellow.

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[norseman]

I dont agree with everything Disotell says but I accept his criticism of Ketchums DNA study. And thats ignoring the Matilda Chewbacca mask.

 

 

[vinchyfoot]

21 hours ago, Marty said:

Humans are apes in the manner that they are our closest relatives from a common ancestor 7 millions yrs ago, however we are distinctly different from Apes in a lot of ways. It's a spectrum. 

 

Considering that chimps share 99% of our dna, thats just not so, we are scientifically classified as apes despite the horror experienced by religious types at the thought of that... in the apes, the great apes are: Chimps, Gorillas, Gibbons, Orangutans, and Us.... maybe biggie to, but he's closer to us than chimps as far as ability to not be discovered.

 

LIke it or not though there is other smart if not intelligence life on earth: Whales, Dolphins, Octopii and squid, and hive insects if you factor in hive mind intelligence. Leaf cutter ants farm the leaves around them for mulch for a unique fungus they essentially farm for themselves. 

[vinchyfoot]

19 hours ago, norseman said:

But that’s the part that makes me want to pull my hair out. People will point out that Bigfoot ARE people? And then point out how vastly different we are from them. Real fundamental differences. It doesn’t make sense to me.

 

Chimpanzees are self destructive. They fight wars. If Bigfeet are Homo Sapiens? Then they would have the same relations with Chimpanzees as modern humans would. So would Neanderthals and Denisovans.... 
 

So why aren’t Bigfeet self destructive?

 

If Bigfeet are a bipedal cousin of a Orangutan and only distant cousins to modern humans? Then some of this makes logical sense. Otherwise it really doesn’t. 

 

My personal theory: (YES THIS ALL SPECULATION) They are a proto human group that went a different way from us, when we in our development chose to embrace agriculture, and advance forward. They instead stayed close to the natural world and developed in a different direction. A couple thousand years later they are what they are, and it is a bit different.