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Hoaxes and hoaxers


CelticKevin
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I've been curious about something I noticed about the more prominent Bigfooters in the media...Cliff, Bobo, etc...in that they seem very reluctant to call out hoaxes and hoaxers. Its like they are afraid to say, "Yes. This guy is a fraud." They seem to play politics and will offer up a typical, "Well...you have to make up your own mind on that picture. I can't say for sure. It may or may not be real..." I argued with Bobo over the whole "Matilda" case and even when presented side by sides of Matilda and a wookie mask...he told ne that well, ok, he can see that but there was plenty of "other evidence" to support their claims. WTF? If someone pulls a fast one once, doesn't that negate anything else from them?
Heck, I think Todd Standing is a complete fraud. But most of the higher profile folk won't denounce his blinking Bigfoot head with any strength. Is it just that they are they worried that if they flat out call out these frauds that they will lose support from the community? Is it a money issue on the whole over integrity to the field? is it just me?
 

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34 minutes ago, CelticKevin said:

that they seem very reluctant to call out hoaxes and hoaxers.

 

They do not want to get sued for libel.

 

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5 minutes ago, gigantor said:

 

They do not want to get sued for libel.

 

Exactly.  The most blatant hoaxes don’t need calling out.  The ones that are in the ‘maybe’ category are too risky for people who depend upon widespread acceptance.

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I'm sure the networks and producers have lawyers who make it  clear what not to do.

 

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11 hours ago, gigantor said:

 

They do not want to get sued for libel.

 

 

That's the Lawyery answer, also there is a certain unwritten understanding among prominent Bigfooter's that they don't call out another's BS lest their own BS be called out, "Finding BF" being one potential example. By contrast they tend to "overlook" and by proxy prop up the collection BS when if they are so prominent, they should take a stand and call BS on same.

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6 minutes ago, vinchyfoot said:

also there is a certain unwritten understanding among prominent Bigfooter's

 

Did they come to this understanding telepathically?

 

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50 minutes ago, gigantor said:

 

Did they come to this understanding telepathically?

 

 

Its just how its been for years.

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1 hour ago, gigantor said:

 

Did they come to this understanding telepathically?

 

 

It's called "mind speak".

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I think there is also a certain amount of caution involved.   You truly cannot state authoritatively about what is not until you have <proven> what is.    Until bigfoot is both proven to exist and studied, no matter how small, no matter what our personal beliefs about them, there will always be than fraction of a percent chance that the seemingly ridiculous is actually the truth.    One way to keep the egg off your face, to keep from having your nose rubbed in an error, is to not make absolute statements without absolute proof.

 

"I don't know" is the only answer any of us can give with authority.   People who sell you any other answer are lying to you.    They may believe mighty strongly, they might even be deluded into thinking they know,  but they do not know what bigfoot is or isn't nor what they can or can't do.

 

MIB

 

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Probably because they are spending their time on their own efforts and research instead of tilting at windmills trying to eliminate any trace of hoaxing from the Bigfoot world.  
 

Cause that’s never going to happen.  
 

Hoaxing is bad and hurts the overall credibility of the field, but what are you going to do about it?  The people who completely believe someone like Khat Hansen are obviously either gullible as heck or want to believe so very, very badly that they will swallow any crazy Bigfoot narrative that comes along.  You spend all of your time debunking someone like her…only to have 2 more pop up in the meantime.  
 

There are always going to be exceptions to that rule, like Standing.  Something that is a bit more elaborate than cropping and editing some gorilla photos and trying to pass them off as your resident Bigfoot clan.    Something like that deserves investigation.
 

A very large portion of the people who have more than a casual interest in this subject are people who WANT to believe the crazy stuff.  They don’t want to hear about mundane stuff…they want the crazy stuff.  They want Khat Hansen and Linda Perry.  They will never dive into the science or history of the phenomenon.  They will never spend a night outside of a KOA.  They want Bigfoot coffee mugs and T-shirts that say ‘World’s Hide and Seek Champion’.   
 

What those sorts of people believe has no bearing on the existence of these creatures, nor should it have no bearing on someone’s legitimate efforts to prove that existence.  Which is a good thing…because there are more of them than us and they aren’t going anywhere.  
 

So, spend all of your time trying to convince people that the guy who claims that Sasquatch came out of a portal in the backyard and delivered a message of world peace…that he might be a fraud?  Try to convince someone of something that a reasonable person should already know?  
 

Spend a couple of hours a day trying to convince some lonely old widow that the Bigfoot researcher with the crazy claims and no real evidence is a fake?  That’s a full time job.  The only reason to engage in that sort of behavior is to kind of inflate your own ego.  It certainly isn’t advancing the subject.

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42 minutes ago, BlackRockBigfoot said:

So, spend all of your time trying to convince people that the guy who claims that Sasquatch came out of a portal in the backyard and delivered a message of world peace…that he might be a fraud?  Try to convince someone of something that a reasonable person should already know?  
 

Spend a couple of hours a day trying to convince some lonely old widow that the Bigfoot researcher with the crazy claims and no real evidence is a fake?  That’s a full time job.  The only reason to engage in that sort of behavior is to kind of inflate your own ego.  It certainly isn’t advancing the subject.

 

Except the delusional really aren't any better than the hoaxers, and one could also make an argument for the exploiters, those who prop up obvious nonsense at Conferences, why? To sell t-shirts and the like. Making money makes the BS ok to some, and the prominent ones have been propping each other up for years. It just makes for white noise.

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14 hours ago, CelticKevin said:

I've been curious about something I noticed about the more prominent Bigfooters in the media...Cliff, Bobo, etc...in that they seem very reluctant to call out hoaxes and hoaxers. Its like they are afraid to say, "Yes. This guy is a fraud." They seem to play politics and will offer up a typical, "Well...you have to make up your own mind on that picture. I can't say for sure. It may or may not be real..." I argued with Bobo over the whole "Matilda" case and even when presented side by sides of Matilda and a wookie mask...he told ne that well, ok, he can see that but there was plenty of "other evidence" to support their claims. WTF? If someone pulls a fast one once, doesn't that negate anything else from them?
Heck, I think Todd Standing is a complete fraud. But most of the higher profile folk won't denounce his blinking Bigfoot head with any strength. Is it just that they are they worried that if they flat out call out these frauds that they will lose support from the community? Is it a money issue on the whole over integrity to the field? is it just me?
 


The problem with the Bigfoot community and why it gets no where? Is where it’s sets the bar for Bigfoot evidence. It’s to low….

 

Photos, videos, plaster casts? We have had those for 50 plus years. Stick a fork in it. That sort of evidence will not sway science.

 

My advice is to just guard against everything as a hoax, until a piece of the animal is brought in. The problem with that? Is that most of these celebrity Bigfooters will be the first to tell you they don’t care about proving the existence of this creature.

 

I mean you have to use tools to get to the creature. Hunters use trail camera photos, videos and follow tracks to get the big buck right? But NO ONE makes a plaster cast of a big buck and hangs it over the fire place. Why? Because that’s not where the bar is set to be a successful hunter. 
 

Either buy a rifle and gear or if that makes you feel squeamish? Watch Todd Disotell on YouTube on how to collect DNA evidence. Or both!

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1 hour ago, norseman said:


The problem with the Bigfoot community and why it gets no where? Is where it’s sets the bar for Bigfoot evidence. It’s to low….

 

Photos, videos, plaster casts? We have had those for 50 plus years. Stick a fork in it. That sort of evidence will not sway science.

 

My advice is to just guard against everything as a hoax, until a piece of the animal is brought in. The problem with that? Is that most of these celebrity Bigfooters will be the first to tell you they don’t care about proving the existence of this creature.

 

I mean you have to use tools to get to the creature. Hunters use trail camera photos, videos and follow tracks to get the big buck right? But NO ONE makes a plaster cast of a big buck and hangs it over the fire place. Why? Because that’s not where the bar is set to be a successful hunter. 
 

Either buy a rifle and gear or if that makes you feel squeamish? Watch Todd Disotell on YouTube on how to collect DNA evidence. Or both!

That’s the thing, though.  The people who would do something like that are not the people who hoaxers and Bigfoot celebrities try and appeal to…. 
 

The people who buy the merchandise and watch the Discovery shows are the same people who believe a lot of really outlandish claims hook, line, and sinker.  At the end of the day, they are not really interested in proving the existence of these creatures.  They are interested in participating in a sub-culture that makes them feel like they belong.  They are the same people who argue over reposted photos on Facebook and make statements of absolute certainty like ‘Bigfoot would never do this because…’.
 

Bigfoot celebrities are not going to make a living off of people who are seriously involved in the pursuit of evidence of these creatures.  They WILL make a buck off of the lady with the Bigfoot soap dish who believes every Facebook lie to be true.  People are either not going to alienate their market or they just don’t want to spend all of their time arguing over possible hoaxes.

1 hour ago, norseman said:


The problem with the Bigfoot community and why it gets no where? Is where it’s sets the bar for Bigfoot evidence. It’s to low….

 

Photos, videos, plaster casts? We have had those for 50 plus years. Stick a fork in it. That sort of evidence will not sway science.

 

My advice is to just guard against everything as a hoax, until a piece of the animal is brought in. The problem with that? Is that most of these celebrity Bigfooters will be the first to tell you they don’t care about proving the existence of this creature.

 

I mean you have to use tools to get to the creature. Hunters use trail camera photos, videos and follow tracks to get the big buck right? But NO ONE makes a plaster cast of a big buck and hangs it over the fire place. Why? Because that’s not where the bar is set to be a successful hunter. 
 

Either buy a rifle and gear or if that makes you feel squeamish? Watch Todd Disotell on YouTube on how to collect DNA evidence. Or both!

BTW, that’s a great analogy about the buck casts.

Edited by BlackRockBigfoot
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36 minutes ago, BlackRockBigfoot said:

That’s the thing, though.  The people who would do something like that are not the people who hoaxers and Bigfoot celebrities try and appeal to…. 
 

The people who buy the merchandise and watch the Discovery shows are the same people who but a lot of really outlandish claims hook, line, and sinker.  At the end of the day, they are not really interested in proving the existence of these creatures.  They are interested in participating in a sub-culture that makes them feel like they belong.  They are the same people who argue over reposted photos on Facebook and make statements of absolute certainty like ‘Bigfoot would never do this because…’.
 

Bigfoot celebrities are not going to make a living off of people who are seriously involved in the pursuit of evidence of these creatures.  They WILL make a buck off of the lady with the Bigfoot soap dish who believes every Facebook lie to be true.  People are either not going to alienate their market or they just don’t want to spend all of their time arguing over possible hoaxes.

BTW, that’s a great analogy about the buck casts.


And there is the rub. Many of the celebrity types don’t want discovery for that reason. If discovery happened? An army of primatologists are going to descend on the subject. Most of these celebrities are not primatologists and will be shoved aside.

 

As for gullible people? I think your right about them, plus the fact that most people are no longer in touch with nature. I see YouTube videos all the time of people calling Mule deer an Elk. Or vice versa. That’s the root of their gullibility. They just don’t know anything. And so having the ability to separate wheat from chaff is entirely lost to them.

 

Thanks. I’ve never understood the fascination with plaster casts. If I was ever on a fresh track? I would want to pursue it. Not sit down and break out dental resin.

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27 minutes ago, norseman said:


And there is the rub. Many of the celebrity types don’t want discovery for that reason.

 

Very valid point, if it happened tomorrow Matt Moneymaker has to get a real job, and the cash cow's milk has dried up.

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