Why Is Bf So Hard To Find And Document?

[Guest Crowlogic]

No animal is 100% invisible 100% of the time. I don't consider sightings as proof of BF existence. By proof I demand much much more. So here then we have a big animal remaining 100% invisible 100% of the time. Now going back to my opening sentence I'll add therefore logic demands that the null set is in play. Bigfoot=null set.

[Guest wild eyed willy]

No animal is 100% invisible 100% of the time. I don't consider sightings as proof of BF existence. By proof I demand much much more. So here then we have a big animal remaining 100% invisible 100% of the time. Now going back to my opening sentence I'll add therefore logic demands that the null set is in play. Bigfoot=null set.

I don't agree with your result, but your picture ( bird silhouette against the moon) is really cool. one of the coolest I have seen on here.

[Guest RayG]

Ray, have you really been a BF researcher for 40 years?

I prefer to think of myself as a bigfoot enthusiast, rather than researcher, and yes, my enthusiasm for bigfoot started nearly 45 years ago.

Do you field research or study reports?

Pull up a chair and sit fer a spell.

I mainly read reports. Was stationed to Masset on the Queen Charlotte Islands in the PNW in the mid-70's, where I was able to talk to a witness about a sighting he had years earlier (I'm not convinced he saw a sasquatch as he claimed it had a tail), and also talk to an elderly member of the Haida Nation about the legends behind sasquatch on the islands. I also experienced what some would call a sasquatch 'encounter' during this time. It was late at night, and I and a companion were apparently stalked by someone or something that would stop when we stopped, and walk when we walked. It was very late at night so we couldn't see anything, and whatever was stalking us was staying in the woods to our left. What was really freaky was when the sounds of stalking came from the right instead of the left. It was either two individuals, or whatever was on our left had crossed the road behind us and taken up a position on the right.

When I was re-stationed there in the early 80's, I was fortunate enough to meet John Green while on course in Victoria. I had been toting his Sasquatch: The Apes Among Us around like some bigfoot bible, and John was gracious enough to allow me to visit with him one-on-one at his home. He showed me his maps, casts, shared his thoughts and ideas, and we chatted for a couple of hours. Not only did he sign my copy of STAAU, he had his earlier publications on hand, and I purchased those from him on the spot.

In the mid 90's I received permission from Green to use his info to create one of the earliest bigfoot websites, which I maintained and updated for about six years. During the early years of the internet I was also an active participant on the IBVC mailing list, submitted reports to the precursor of the BFRO (the BFRR), was interviewed by the Kingston This Week newspaper, received constant emails from students wanting to use the website as a source for school projects, and was very much a proponent of bigfoot. The North Texas Skeptics thought so anyway, writing in their March 2001 Newsletter about bigfoot websites, starting with mine. Kind of ironic that I'd end up very skeptical myself.

With the advent of email, I was fortunate to be able to communicate directly with many bigfoot researchers -- John Green, Henry Franzoni, Kyle Mizokami, Bobbie Short, and many others, too numerous to mention. Over the years I've 'met' a lot of bigfooters online, and there are very few, if any, that I wouldn't sit down and share a drink with.

I also joined numerous message forums, long before the present format we have on the BFF. Anyone remember using a BBS or the old Network54 forums? Some of those forums might still be active, but I gravitated over to the BFF and have sort of been here ever since.

Was there one incident or report that got you interested in the subject?

Undoubtedly the PGF, though I was already a huge monster enthusiast when I was a pre-teen. Dracula, Frankenstein, the Wolfman, Creature from the Black Lagoon... Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea and the original Star Trek were two of my favorite TV shows. I couldn't wait to see what creatures they would encounter each week. I loved the Twilight Zone and Night Gallery too.

Now I'm content to watch Hell's Kitchen and the Big Bang Theory. Monsters just don't interest me much anymore. Except that one they call bigfoot...*

* and I wouldn't classify bigfoot as a true monster, but I sure did when I was a kid.

RayG

[Guest]

Hmmm....All apologies Ray! I took you for a staunch skeptic, with no rhyme, or reason why you were. Had no idea you actually put in your work. I guess that's what tends to happen on anonymous message board forums. I stand corrected, to a certain degree. Maybe there's still hope for you yet!

[Guest]

Apparently they aren't

http://www.bigfootpreserve.com/hunts.htm

[Bonehead74]

No animal is 100% invisible 100% of the time.

Agreed.

I don't consider sightings as proof of BF existence.

No argument here, but are you suggesting that reports of sightings are nothing? I would posit that sightings by credible, vetted witnesses are valuable anecdotal evidence.

The set of bigfoot sightings can be explained by one of 4 possibilities:

1. Sighting is a hoax known to the witness
   
2. Sighting is a hoax unknown to the witness
   
3. Sighting is a misidentification of a known animal/object
   
4. Sighting is of an as-yet unidentified creature fitting the description of the fabled bigfoot/sasquatch

It stretches the limits of my credulity to believe that the thousands of extant reports can all be explained by possibilities 1, 2, and 3, and not one by possibility 4.

Also, do you discount all film/video/photos/audio, prints, hair, etc. as evidence and/or proof?

By proof I demand much much more.

What exactly would meet your demand for proof? Is there any evidence you feel warrants further investigation?

So here then we have a big animal remaining 100% invisible 100% of the time.

Where has this ever been seriously proposed except here? Seems a straw man.

If we translate your argument into a simple syllogism, we get:

No animals are 100% invisible 100% of the time

All bigfoot remain 100% invisible 100% of the time

Therefore, no bigfoot are animals.

If we accept both propositions, we've proven not that bigfoot doesn't exist, but that bigfoot are not animals. I do not accept the second proposition though, based on my willingness to take sightings as evidence as stated above. Interestingly, in a round-about way you've created a possible proof for a paranormal bigfoot if you accept a hybrid view of your argument plus the denial of all 4 of my sightings explanations.

Now going back to my opening sentence I'll add therefore logic demands that the null set is in play. Bigfoot=null set.

No comment.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Bonehead74

[Guest Kerchak]

No one I know of thinks that either, but there IS plenty of appropriate habitat in most states that could support such creatures.

Anywhere there are bears, there's no reason why you can't have BF.

Undoubtedly. There IS plenty of habitat to support such creatures all over the place, you're right.

But to be so widespread and populous.........and still not 100% proof? Not even a bone? That's why I don't subscribe to that theory.

[BobbyO]

I don't consider sightings as proof of BF existence. By proof I demand much much more.

It's attitudes like this that make a little part of me want this Animal to remain hidden forever & not exist to the unfortunate 99.9% of people.

I think it's super cool that people that say what Crow says, doesn't KNOW of this Animal's existence & due to that same attitude, i personally hope they never do.

[Guest RayG]

Hmmm....All apologies Ray! I took you for a staunch skeptic, with no rhyme, or reason why you were. Had no idea you actually put in your work. I guess that's what tends to happen on anonymous message board forums. I stand corrected, to a certain degree. Maybe there's still hope for you yet!

No worries. I AM a pretty staunch skeptic, not to mention that thing in my avatar.

I'd be one of the happiest ones here if bigfoot were proven to exist. Truly. And I would relish every bite of crow.

RayG

[Guest wild eyed willy]

I prefer to think of myself as a bigfoot enthusiast, rather than researcher, and yes, my enthusiasm for bigfoot started nearly 45 years ago.

Pull up a chair and sit fer a spell.

I mainly read reports. Was stationed to Masset on the Queen Charlotte Islands in the PNW in the mid-70's, where I was able to talk to a witness about a sighting he had years earlier (I'm not convinced he saw a sasquatch as he claimed it had a tail), and also talk to an elderly member of the Haida Nation about the legends behind sasquatch on the islands. I also experienced what some would call a sasquatch 'encounter' during this time. It was late at night, and I and a companion were apparently stalked by someone or something that would stop when we stopped, and walk when we walked. It was very late at night so we couldn't see anything, and whatever was stalking us was staying in the woods to our left. What was really freaky was when the sounds of stalking came from the right instead of the left. It was either two individuals, or whatever was on our left had crossed the road behind us and taken up a position on the right.

When I was re-stationed there in the early 80's, I was fortunate enough to meet John Green while on course in Victoria. I had been toting his Sasquatch: The Apes Among Us around like some bigfoot bible, and John was gracious enough to allow me to visit with him one-on-one at his home. He showed me his maps, casts, shared his thoughts and ideas, and we chatted for a couple of hours. Not only did he sign my copy of STAAU, he had his earlier publications on hand, and I purchased those from him on the spot.

In the mid 90's I received permission from Green to use his info to create one of the earliest bigfoot websites, which I maintained and updated for about six years. During the early years of the internet I was also an active participant on the IBVC mailing list, submitted reports to the precursor of the BFRO (the BFRR), was interviewed by the Kingston This Week newspaper, received constant emails from students wanting to use the website as a source for school projects, and was very much a proponent of bigfoot. The North Texas Skeptics thought so anyway, writing in their March 2001 Newsletter about bigfoot websites, starting with mine. Kind of ironic that I'd end up very skeptical myself.

With the advent of email, I was fortunate to be able to communicate directly with many bigfoot researchers -- John Green, Henry Franzoni, Kyle Mizokami, Bobbie Short, and many others, too numerous to mention. Over the years I've 'met' a lot of bigfooters online, and there are very few, if any, that I wouldn't sit down and share a drink with.

I also joined numerous message forums, long before the present format we have on the BFF. Anyone remember using a BBS or the old Network54 forums? Some of those forums might still be active, but I gravitated over to the BFF and have sort of been here ever since.

Undoubtedly the PGF, though I was already a huge monster enthusiast when I was a pre-teen. Dracula, Frankenstein, the Wolfman, Creature from the Black Lagoon... Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea and the original Star Trek were two of my favorite TV shows. I couldn't wait to see what creatures they would encounter each week. I loved the Twilight Zone and Night Gallery too.

Now I'm content to watch Hell's Kitchen and the Big Bang Theory. Monsters just don't interest me much anymore. Except that one they call bigfoot...*

* and I wouldn't classify bigfoot as a true monster, but I sure did when I was a kid.

RayG

One more question and one coment for you.

The question: Is there one particular reason you became a skeptic? or lean toward that point of view?

and the comment: It is my understanding that Mountain lions will stalk people in the exact fasion you described. Not that what stalked you was a mountain lion, but it could have been. I don't think bears do that.

Lastly, thank you for the responce. You have a very interesting background.

[Guest wild eyed willy]

Apparently they aren't

http://www.bigfootpreserve.com/hunts.htm

Gray Jay, this isn't true, is it? This is just a joke site right?

[Guest RayG]

One more question and one coment for you.

The question: Is there one particular reason you became a skeptic? or lean toward that point of view?

Check out my post from back in June of this year. That pretty much encapsulates my skeptical progression.

and the comment: It is my understanding that Mountain lions will stalk people in the exact fasion you described. Not that what stalked you was a mountain lion, but it could have been. I don't think bears do that.

Not sure if there are mountain lions on the islands, though I know there are bears, one ran across the road in front of our bus one morning as we were heading for work.

It may have been Hippy Cows. You never knew when you might round a bend in the road and find one standing in the middle.

Lastly, thank you for the responce. You have a very interesting background.

Thanks to the military, I got to travel to a lot of places I would have otherwise not gotten to. Like when I got to spend 51 weeks at one of the 10 most remote inhabited places on earth (Alert, where the nearest town is 1,300 miles away)... brrrrr.... I did love the Queen Charlotte's though.

RayG

[Guest wild eyed willy]

**** Hippi cows, you never quite know what they will do

I read your post and I have to agree with you on one point, I have read many things that make me say no way, but I have to believe many of the reports by credable witnesses mean they saw something crazy. As for BF, I need to believe they exist, because of the magic they bring to our everyday mundane existance. We as a people need to have mysterys in out world for life without it would be boreing.

[georgerm]

**** Hippi cows, you never quite know what they will do

I read your post and I have to agree with you on one point, I have read many things that make me say no way, but I have to believe many of the reports by credable witnesses mean they saw something crazy. As for BF, I need to believe they exist, because of the magic they bring to our everyday mundane existance. We as a people need to have mysterys in out world for life without it would be boreing.

Very well put Willy. Today, I was wondering why a handfull of us come on the forum and talk about BF while most of the world might see us as dreamers..............do we share some common mental outlook?....are we bored, do we have loose screws, are we natural scientist,.....what common trait do we have?

Why have we not found BF with good films or with a long term capture? Why? One theory is BF is 10 times more stealthy than a cougar and simply enjoys spending most of its time in lands humans can't or don't want to explore. When we start climbing the most rugged mountains, cliffs, remote paths, then we will find BF, because those are the places BF loves. Maybe I should remain silent and not encourage this? When we go there, we are invading BF's home. Do we need to adopt a respectful mental attitude when we go there? One way is to leave gifts such as apples, shiny object or other.

On rugged grounds, BF likes to crash through scratchy brush straight up steep rocky ground since that's what BFs made for. BF likes this feeling of super speed and strength that allows it to jump off ledges and crash down hill sides without harm. One time as kids fifty years ago, we ran down a steep forest hillside and jumped high over bushes and crashed into the needles and leaves only to take off leaping and running more and more.....We felt fast and invincible. When we stand on a high cliff or tall mountain some get a wild free feeling..............Is this how BF feels every day?

Edited September 16, 2011 by georgerm

[Guest]

Its also possible many bigfoot sightings can be attributed to an unidentified species, like say CougarMan, 6-10 feet tall half cougar half biped. Imagine a brand new cryto-creature!