Is The Skookum Cast Still Considered To Be A Potential Bigfoot Lay?

[Guest StankApe]

a PHD in geology and ichnology DID look at the cast and in his opinion it was an obvious elk lay Skookum analysis

The Noll guy apparently responded to this by calling the guy names.... that's mature

So there you go, an expert in animal signs and prints imprints..etc says it's an obvious elk lay, there's elk hair in the lay, and there's elk prints around.... What's the argument about again? Oh wait, everything that's claimed to be a bigfoot has to be a bigfoot it can't possibly be a mis-identification eh?

Edited October 26, 2011 by StankApe

[BobZenor]

It is pretty ridiculous in my opinion to give someone extra credit because they are an ichnology expert. Sorry but I am just not impressed with that credential being particularly relevant. DesertYeti, the ichnology expert, was a very intelligent individual and that makes much more difference than being able to study impressions in the fossil record. I just don't buy that there is some greater ability that is gained from studying clam traces. It just isn't a subject that lends itself to deep intellectual thought.

The fact is that he based his opinion on much less precise evidence than several scientists where were there. I lost a great deal of respect for him the way he treated his basically irrelevant opinions as fact since he hadn't seen the original. He wouldn't agree to be filmed or whatever the conditions were so he didn't get to see the original. I don't blame DDA for not allowing him to go in and continue what seemed to me like it would be continuing an obnoxious attempt to get notoriety. He can be free to have his own opinion but the requirement that it be documented so he doesn't misrepresent it seemed reasonable to me. It is not as simple as you imply by DDA calling him names. That sounds more like politics and spin from Short, Perez and others that seem to have a problem with the Skookum cast. He keeps his temper better than I would have and that is assuming he even did get testy with DesertYeti. I was irritated by how obnoxious DY sounded at another forum and I didn't even have a dog in that fight.

Edited October 26, 2011 by BobZenor

[Guest StankApe]

Now wait a minute, a guy (who is apparently an expert in this field) says he thinks it's an elk lay. But since you are sure it's a bigfoot lay then this guy's credentials have to be called into doubt and the name calling is okay? This is the sort of thing that makes the study of bigfoot have very little success and/or credibility. Muckraking is not a sufficient response to a contrary opinion. Heck the guy probably didn't want his name drug into the middle of it because he wnts to stay as far away from the Sasquatch people as he possibly can...........

[BobZenor]

Now wait a minute, a guy (who is apparently an expert in this field) says he thinks it's an elk lay. But since you are sure it's a bigfoot lay then this guy's credentials have to be called into doubt and the name calling is okay? This is the sort of thing that makes the study of bigfoot have very little success and/or credibility. Muckraking is not a sufficient response to a contrary opinion. Heck the guy probably didn't want his name drug into the middle of it because he wnts to stay as far away from the Sasquatch people as he possibly can...........

Perhaps you didn't notice that I said I don't have a dog in that fight. I wasn't one of the people that examined the original so my opinion is based on their interpretation. I don't really value other people's opinions much as evidence so I can't say what the cast is. If he didn't want his name dragged into it then he shouldn't have spoken as if his opinion was fact and came from authority. You are probably right about him wanting to stay away from the bigfoot crowd but for the wrong reason. I think his problem was that he did care more about what people thought of him at the anti-bigfoot crowd. He was playing to the crowd.

DesertYeti used to post all the time at the old BFF. He is quite the character and obviously extremely intelligent and I don't say that about very many people. He did loose a lot of my respect the way he handled this subject though. Sorry, expertise in that field just doesn't mean much. It is often used as an appeal to authority and I for one don't give it any consideration whatsoever. He has no special expertise in elk impressions because he studies fossil impressions. It is almost as irrelevant as him being a geologist. He is certainly capable of examining it because he was obviously extremely knowledgeable about science including anatomy. That doesn't make his opinion as relevant as people that examined the original.

[Guest RayG]

He was playing to the crowd.

You mean unlike Green, Krantz, Meldrum, Noll, Moneymaker, etc. etc.?

He has no special expertise in elk impressions because he studies fossil impressions... That doesn't make his opinion as relevant as people that examined the original.

Why not? None of the people that examined the original have any special expertise in bigfoot impressions.

RayG

[Guest LAL]

The Noll guy apparently responded to this by calling the guy names.... that's mature

You're wrong.

Rick offered to pick him up at the airport and Hairy Man offered to pay his way to Seattle. Rick wanted to film him doing the examination and DY refused. DY told me in a debate on Bossburg on BFF1 that as a researcher I should examine original casts wherever possible and then did his analysis, which he planned to publish in Ichnos, from copies, painted and inexact in their measurements, that were on display in 2006.

DY posted their e-mail exchanges on JREF. There was no name-calling that I can recall.

Note differences in detail in Rick Noll's photo of the original (from Meet The Sasquatch) and Dr. Wroblewski's photo:

ETA: Desertyeti did list Dr. Meldrum as a "woo scientist" on JREF. Some might consider that name-calling.The thread is probably still there if you care to search for it.

Edited October 26, 2011 by LAL

[Guest Kerchak]

a PHD in geology and ichnology DID look at the cast and in his opinion it was an obvious elk lay Skookum analysis

So there you go, an expert in animal signs and prints imprints..etc says it's an obvious elk lay, there's elk hair in the lay, and there's elk prints around.... What's the argument about again? Oh wait, everything that's claimed to be a bigfoot has to be a bigfoot it can't possibly be a mis-identification eh?

You left out the important part. That the 'expert' you are referring to was completely biased against bigfoot and was very outspoken against bigfoot and, in his own words "woo" research. He had his own axe to grind.

Heck the guy probably didn't want his name drug into the middle of it because he wnts to stay as far away from the Sasquatch people as he possibly can...........

Um, he was a frequent poster on the old BFF and on the cynic's hangout JREF Forums. A well known bigfoot detractor. Hardly unbiased in his mindset.

Edited October 26, 2011 by Kerchak

[Guest Kerchak]

ETA: Desertyeti did list Dr. Meldrum as a "woo scientist" on JREF. Some might consider that name-calling.The thread is probably still there if you care to search for it.

Ah you beat me to it LAL.

His condescending attitude, if not outright mockery, hardly did much for any impartial observer to warm to.

[Guest LAL]

Um, he was a frequent poster on the old BFF and on the cynic's hangout JREF Forums. A well known bigfoot detractor. Hardly unbiased in his mindset.

He fit right in with the lampmaker - I mean master welder - and other "experts" on the other forum. I'm not sure why people would be so quick to accept the findings of someone with a doctorate in geology who has never seen the cast over the findings of those who examined the cast or the original impression who have doctorates in anatomy or zoology (Dr. Sarmiento is a primatologist and functional anatomist) but that's the way it is.

Since Dr. Melrum examined another buttock print cast associated with apparent sasquatch footprints and has examined footprints in situ as well as casts in his collection and is an expert in primate foot anatomy I think we can claim him as a "bigfoot impression expert". Dr. Swindler was a giant in his field and the Skookum Cast, especially the heel imprint, convinced him, after years of skepticism, sasquatches are real animals.

[Guest StankApe]

hey , I just read the article..... I had no idea that any of these people were members or about any sort of vendettas or arguments...etc going on between they and other member's...

[Guest RedRatSnake]

Hang in there ~ Stank ~ don't let them push you around.

Tim

[Guest StankApe]

i AM noticing a pattern on here tho.... anyone who differs with the consensus "IT'S A BIGFOOT" that seems to run willy nilly on here like influenza is shouted down with the typical " prove it's not......" any experts mentioned "have an anti-bigfoot agenda..."

This isn't very scientific, it seems like a lot of glad handing . It seems like the only people whose opinion can be valid is the person who agrees with you (even if that person is an expert on primate feet and has no clue about elk lays or other animals) ....

Y'all DO realize how much this sort of behavior hurts your cause right? It puts all of your evidence into doubt, it makes it look like "it's either bigfoot or you have an anti bigfoot agenda" is the mantra of the day and it opens the entire issue up to debating the validity of ALL evidence.

In other words, it makes me sad as I would really like to find out the answer to the bigfoot question in a direct, scientific manner. But how can any of this evidence be accepted?

Edited October 26, 2011 by StankApe

[Guest Cervelo]

Stank,

I think you've presented a great argument and have stayed above the fray. But your questions really have no answer. People have already made up their minds on both sides of the issue and nothings really going to change. But like I've always said when you go on a witch hunt you find witches!!

[Guest StankApe]

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest krakatoa]

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!!!!!!

Burn her!!!