The Echo Incident

[Guest parnassus]

images of the "blood" on the rocks, found later, can be seen at Bigfoot Evidence. There may be some blood in it, but this certainly doesn't look like any authentic blood drippings I've ever seen, and appears to be placed.

any lab reports on this???

Edited December 15, 2011 by parnassus

[Guest UPs]

There may be some blood in it, but this certainly doesn't look like any authentic blood drippings I've ever seen, and appears to be placed.

any lab reports on this???

Parn, can you explain more on this statement? Why does the blood spatter appear to not be authentic? Do you have experience in analyzing blood spatter? What tells you that it has been placed instead of naturally occurring? Can you tell how the blood was placed there? I have no experience with blood other than my own and spoor from deer, grouse, and other small animals. It seems like the pattern of the dried blood could be an important clue as to what left it. Maybe someone can email 'Dexter'.

UPs

[Guest spunout]

Cool thread. After that shotgun blast, I'I wonder if any BF will be in the area ever again. I can imagine big headlines in the BF Times.

So shotgun for < 50 yds. But for > 50 yds, there seems to be some opinion on what to use. .458 Win-Mag, etc. Is the 50Beowolf legal???

Would like advice. In the market. Stealth a factor. Live in NJ, which may be a regulation problem. Every time I go hiking in Maine with my wife, we encur BF encounter symptoms. Freaking out my wife. Getting spooky for me. Hope you get the drift.

[Guest]

Cool thread. After that shotgun blast, I'I wonder if any BF will be in the area ever again. I can imagine big headlines in the BF Times.

So shotgun for < 50 yds. But for > 50 yds, there seems to be some opinion on what to use. .458 Win-Mag, etc. Is the 50Beowolf legal???

Would like advice. In the market. Stealth a factor. Live in NJ, which may be a regulation problem. Every time I go hiking in Maine with my wife, we encur BF encounter symptoms. Freaking out my wife. Getting spooky for me. Hope you get the drift.

12 gauge w/ sabots is good little over 100 yds, 50 beowolf is bacically a 50 s&w round, barrel has to be over 18 inches and it would be legal.

your better off getting rem 1100 or 1187 with rifled slug barrel.

these slugs below are used by many guides for dangerous game.

The Dixie IXL-

DGS is .730" and weighs 870 grs. It is designed for rifled barrels and .729"/.730" bore smoothbore with cylinder chokes. The velocity in the loaded rounds is 1200'/" from 20" 12 gauge 3" Hastings rifled barrels.

Dixie designed his slug as requested by experienced shooters in Alaska.

It is a true Dangerous Game slug/bullet that will stand up against the most severe tests! It is cast from our standard bullet alloy and heat-treated.

There are other offerings that call themselves DGS (Dangerous Game Slugs) that are nothing more than swaged lead. They will never stand up to the severe situations that the Dixie IXL-DGS is designed for.

Edited December 17, 2011 by zigoapex

[Incorrigible1]

One correction: 16" is minimum legal rifle barrel length, 18" for a shotgun.

[Guest]

One correction: 16" is minimum legal rifle barrel length, 18" for a shotgun.

I thought it was 18 for both, good to know, you truly are the Incorrigible1

[Guest parnassus]

Parn, can you explain more on this statement? Why does the blood spatter appear to not be authentic? Do you have experience in analyzing blood spatter? What tells you that it has been placed instead of naturally occurring? Can you tell how the blood was placed there? I have no experience with blood other than my own and spoor from deer, grouse, and other small animals. It seems like the pattern of the dried blood could be an important clue as to what left it. Maybe someone can email 'Dexter'.

UPs

UPs

I've hunted all my life, elk, deer, bear, and all manner of small game. And it so happens I see a lot more shed blood in other situations. Doesn't look like blood to me. It looks pale and runny and it looks almost like it was placed there, one drop on this rock, one on that rock, etc. Shed blood drops/drips are dark and thick and tend to be round. Doesn't look like shed blood drops to me. Looks like someone used some runny reddish fluid (could be partly blood, I suppose) and placed it. It doesn't look like the shed blood drops I've seen probably a thousand times (no exaggeration). Unlike Dexter, I am a real person.

Any lab results yet?

[Guest]

So your hypothesis is, since the TBRC has already stated that a forensic test has positively identified it as blood, that we're lying. Is that it? Why don't you just cut to the chase and say you think the TBRC is hoaxing this?

[Guest UPs]

Thanks for explaining your opinion Parn. I have also hunted since I was an early teen, but mostly smaller game. I have done some guiding for friends (whitetail deer) and have helped track and recover black bear. All of the tracking that I have done was in cool weather and within 24 hours of the animal being hit (usually, within the hour). Since I have no experience in tracking in very hot weather and a week old spoor, I simply could not give a valid opinion on what a blood trail under these circumstances would look like. If I came across a blood trail similar to what's pictured, the first thing I would NOT think of was that it was placed there. To conclude this (placement), I would need much more information.

The pictures appear to show very dried blood that ran and puddled before drying. The rocks were probably very hot when the drops hot them (temps in July were awfully hot in 2011 and incident happened around 6pm). The pictures do not appear to be taken where rocks were originally found, but instead, collected and then photographed. The timeline of a week between when the animal was shot and these blood droplets found can alter a blood trail by rain, wind, and temperature changes.

I am also interested in what the lab report says and hope the results are posted whether they are from a known animal or not. UPs

[Guest]

UPs

I've hunted all my life, elk, deer, bear, and all manner of small game. And it so happens I see a lot more shed blood in other situations. Doesn't look like blood to me. It looks pale and runny and it looks almost like it was placed there, one drop on this rock, one on that rock, etc. Shed blood drops/drips are dark and thick and tend to be round. Doesn't look like shed blood drops to me. Looks like someone used some runny reddish fluid (could be partly blood, I suppose) and placed it. It doesn't look like the shed blood drops I've seen probably a thousand times (no exaggeration). Unlike Dexter, I am a real person.

Any lab results yet?

It looks like blood drops to me,it could have hit upper foliage and then dripped on the rock ,or if it was moving and the drops could have impacted at a lesser than 90 degree angle .

I've seen many blood trails that have the same look as that, many times. I am also a real person who hunted his whole life.

It doesn't look like the shed blood drops I've seen probably a thousand times (no exaggeration)

If you just track a couple of leg shot deer and you can see a thousand different drops.

Or are you talking about a thousand different blood trails? if you hunted 40 years,that would be 25 blood trails a year,if that's the case, then you must be a horrible shot.

[Guest]

@ BIpto

"We're having lots of discussions about how we'll deploy cameras next year, many of which have been instigated by comments here on the BFF. Thanks for your input!"

Do you guys use flir in aircraft to search that area?

I don't know if anyone tried an rc blimp with flir or hd camera ? I found these online and I think they would be great for

the project. only downfall would be weather.

altafoto.com

phodia.com

Another down fall would be full-blown summer.

However,early spring, and late fall along with winter would be wonderful times to use this areal survey tool!

[Guest parnassus]

We've taken John Mionczynski into the area in the past (not during OE). John is an expert in the types of food a large omnivore would require to thrive. According to him, there is ample food in the Ouachitas.

but you haven't observed them eating anything, or any evidence of what they ate or what came out in their poop? or any poop, for that matter?

It looks like blood drops to me,it could have hit upper foliage and then dripped on the rock ,or if it was moving and the drops could have impacted at a lesser than 90 degree angle .

I've seen many blood trails that have the same look as that, many times. I am also a real person who hunted his whole life.

If you just track a couple of leg shot deer and you can see a thousand different drops.

Or are you talking about a thousand different blood trails? if you hunted 40 years,that would be 25 blood trails a year,if that's the case, then you must be a horrible shot.

much of my experience with shed blood is not in tracking wild animals, though I have hunted in a large camp for many years and have tracked a lot of wounded animals.

I am surprised that you think this is what a blood trail looks like.

Edited December 18, 2011 by parnassus

[Guest HucksterFoot]

It's poopless. Though, I like the blimp.

[Guest parnassus]

So your hypothesis is, since the TBRC has already stated that a forensic test has positively identified it as blood, that we're lying. Is that it? Why don't you just cut to the chase and say you think the TBRC is hoaxing this?

b:

plz knock off the straw man/"are you calling me a liar" stuff. Can't we have a civil conversation?

I don't think this represents drops of shed, undiluted blood. That's my opinion.

I am saying what I said. I don't have a hypothesis other than my opinion. You've answered questions and I appreciate that. Sorry if I hit a nerve. You don't know how it got there either, or whether it was diluted.

Why no DNA report yet? Have you inquired of the lab in the last 5-6 weeks?

[Guest]

UPs

I've hunted all my life, elk, deer, bear, and all manner of small game. And it so happens I see a lot more shed blood in other situations. Doesn't look like blood to me. It looks pale and runny and it looks almost like it was placed there, one drop on this rock, one on that rock, etc. Shed blood drops/drips are dark and thick and tend to be round. Doesn't look like shed blood drops to me. Looks like someone used some runny reddish fluid (could be partly blood, I suppose) and placed it. It doesn't look like the shed blood drops I've seen probably a thousand times (no exaggeration). Unlike Dexter, I am a real person.

Any lab results yet?

A thousand blood trails???? No exaggeration???? I think you shot yourself in the foot with that claim.