Kill A Bigfoot Or Capture One For Proof, A Better Non Lethal Way

[Guest]

There is so much talk about the only way to prove BF is a body. With so many researchers out there, I think a better idea would be to

to use a dart gun that would insert a tracking chip or perhaps with a high bait station and set up a sensor to shoot the dart with co2.

I know it is just an idea and there are many factors to deal with, but it would be a very good way to get data on travel, habitat, food, etc...

Also it would be easier to set up to observe them without disturbing them.

[Guest MikeG]

OK, I've been involved a little with darting in Africa, so let me tell you a bit about it.

For a start, you have to get the dose right, or you will either just leave the animal "drunk", which can make them vulnerable to predation, or you kill them outright if the dose is too large. To get the dose right, you have to know their weight, and that rules out any sort of automatic thing which you seemed to be suggesting. That would undoubtedly be illegal anyway, and they would throw away the key if your trap happened to shoot a dart intended for an 800lb creature into, say, an 80lb child. However, let's suppose for a minute that you somehow see the beastie long enough to be able to judge its weight, then put the required amount of drug into the dart, and then get close enough to shoot it.

The next problem is that the drug usually takes between 3 and 5 minutes to bring an animal down. When you've fired something like this into the flank of an animal, they don't tend to like it very much, and they race off at the speed of light. So, now you've got an angry 800lb creature running away at full speed into the woods. Justin Smeja couldn't find an animal that ran about 150 yards with a bullet through it's lungs. How far is it going to run in 3 minutes? As you head off into the woods after it, it might just cross your mind that it may have buddies in there, or, that it might be lying in wait for you.

OK, so somehow you've managed to dart it without killing it, and miraculously tracked it through it's territory to where it has fallen, and there are no others around that you know of. I'd put all that at about a 1% chance........but let's suppose for a minute.........

Right, what next? You come across your unconscious sasquatch. It requires a team of people of course. One to monitor the breathing and BP. Another to take samples. A third to watch out for unwanted visitors. One to video the whole thing (who will believe you otherwise?). The choke relex has gone, and choking on its own tongue is a big possibility, and just lying awkwardly can put pressure on internal organs, often leading to their failure and death. So, you grab your samples and bolt on a GPS transmitter. It'll have to go around its ankle as it doesn't seem to have a neck. There is no way on this planet you're going to get this animal out of there. You're going to be deep in the woods with something that would take 8 people to lift, plus all those people who have to monitor it and keep it alive.

So, you'll have to administer an antidote, knowing that you should be able to come back to find it any time you want because of the anklet. Unfortunately, antidotes work rather quickly, and you are actually supposed to stick around whilst they take effect, again, amongst other reasons, to make sure that it isn't predated. In just a few minutes this rather angry and confused animal is going to get up.

Then what? You're blundering your way through his back yard trying to find your way back to your vehicle. You've got about a 2 minute head start on something very big, very quick and very annoyed. You're carrying a bag full of medical kit, tools, cameras etc. which even if it doesn't slow you down much is going to make you quite noisy. Go on, run! The very best of luck to you. If you make it, you'll be a hero.......

Mike

Edited February 14, 2012 by MikeG

[Guest krakatoa]

Sounds like a good time. I'm in!

To be fair, I think the OP was referring more to a tracking chip, but the odds of that being very useful are slim. Tracking chips that small don't transmit at a very long range, and they don't have the juice to transmit for very long either.

Maybe if you used a radioactive dust at a low enough level to not harm anyone, but trackable via a geiger counter, you'd have more luck. Maybe not finding a 'foot, but at least being able to track movement for a ways before the dust wore off.

[Guest]

Actually darting one with a radio chip while cost prohibitive that could be tracked by satellite would be the optimal way to go. Unfortunately I don't think we have the tech yet.

[Guest]

I have taken the time to contact a few people I know working in related fields in a couple of different Universities, because oddly enough, I do not take what I read here as always being correct. Science, doe not require a body,especially if multiple samples are being provided,from diverse area's. A dead one found,great,a good find,but its irresponsible and reckless to keep saying we need a body. As disturbing as it is, I think there are people who would actually get some satisfaction over seeing some over zealous "researcher" accidentally killing someone over this notion that a body is a "must"

[Guest Twilight Fan]

If they can track it, SOMEONE is probably going to kill it. Best to just leave them in peace if they exist. Humans tend to destroy things they come in contact with.

[Guest wudewasa]

Tranqing a big mammal is complicated:

http://www.jwildlifedis.org/content/44/3/748.full

Of course, a more passive approach could be used by placing a sedative in garlic, pancakes, zagnut bars or donuts and waiting for the squatch to take the bait. However, such a method is not species specific, and other wildlife perishing due to an overdose would be unethical or perhaps simply viewed as collateral damage.

[Guest Bipedal Ape]

To catch a bigfoot I would suggest no less than the gun shown in this video at 20 seconds:

[Guest JiggyPotamus]

This is certainly possible, but obtaining sleeping darts isn't easy. I am not sure about the tracking chips, or how they are shot into animals. As I mentioned in other threads, packing a dead or sleeping bigfoot out of the woods would be extremely difficult logistically speaking, therefore we do need an out of the box type of idea.

I don't think I ever mentioned it online, but I have drawn up an actual trap for capturing a live bigfoot, and even though I designed it to be carried out with a big piece of equipment, the placement of the trap would depend on where the rig could reach...This pretty much eliminates the deep woods, unless there is a wide trail or road extremely close, which would still probably require cutting some trees down.

Since I am sure someone will be curious about how it works, I will give a brief description. It would be made from lightweight metal, and would be framed in a square shape. The walls aren't solid, but barred. The walls on 2 opposite sides would start at the corners and come to a triangular point at about 10 feet or so.

The other two walls would be hinged, and when closed, they would rest on top of the triangular walls, basically forming a triangular shape. The entire thing would be buried in the ground. That is quite a feat, I know, but I do not want the bigfoot to be able to see it.

So two walls are acute triangles, and the other two walls are simply regular, or square, stretching the length of the cage.

It's just like a pit trap, and if the animal falls in, the floor is designed to sit above the actual bottom of the cage. Once weight is applied to this platform, it will fall to the bottom of the cage, and simultaneously pull the 2 walls shut, on top of the triangular solid walls. I have this all drawn up, as well as the different mechanisms of action, which I don't really feel like trying to explain right now, lol.

The cage itself wouldn't have to be all that big. I haven't really decided on the dimensions, as I am not planning on building it. Anyway, at the top of the walls there are a couple of strong latching systems that will auto-lock once the cage closes. This way the animal could not escape through the top. At this point all of the walls are surrounded by dirt, since it is still in the ground.

There are a series of hooks located on the top and sides of the cage itself, which will be hooked to some type of dozer/small crane-like contraption, and lifted out of the ground, where it could be loaded onto a flatbed or something. I have toyed with the idea of developing a pulley system that could be attached to a tree, but even with enough pulleys to lift the weight, I am not certain any tree would hold, lol.

It is certainly do-able in my opinion, and the design itself is solid. I made sure of that when drawing up the plans. The creature could easily be baited to the covering of the pit, so trapping it wouldn't take much work at all after the initial placement of the device. Also, I should point out that the covering of the pit will be made to stay solid up to a certain weight...Say 300 pounds or so, just as a shot in the dark.

I haven't designed that part of the system yet, but just thinking about it right now, it wouldn't be that difficult at all. I think the genius in my system is the platform that is elevated above the floor of the cage. It is attached to two walls in such a way that the animal's own weight causes the system to close, and would probably keep it closed without the latches and locks, but I didn't want to take any chances.

As I said, I don't plan on building my design, but I am confident that if someone has known activity in a certain area that this trap device would definitely operate correctly, trapping the animal...which could be hauled out for public view, scientific view, circus attraction, or for consumption. I recommend a slow cook, but to each his own right?

Edited February 14, 2012 by JiggyPotamus

[Guest MikeG]

I have spotted a slight flaw in this cunning plan of yours, Ziggy.

You got to persuade an animal, which by all accounts is extremely wary, to walk out onto an area of bare earth, close to a pile of maybe 20 or 30tons of recently excavated earth, and all smelling of diesel and hydraulic oil from the excavator. It's going to take a pretty enticing bait to get it to do that, when we can't even get it to walk in front of a trail cam!!!

Mike

[Guest]

OK, I've been involved a little with darting in Africa, so let me tell you a bit about it.

For a start, you have to get the dose right, or you will either just leave the animal "drunk", which can make them vulnerable to predation, or you kill them outright if the dose is too large. To get the dose right, you have to know their weight, and that rules out any sort of automatic thing which you seemed to be suggesting. That would undoubtedly be illegal anyway, and they would throw away the key if your trap happened to shoot a dart intended for an 800lb creature into, say, an 80lb child. However, let's suppose for a minute that you somehow see the beastie long enough to be able to judge its weight, then put the required amount of drug into the dart, and then get close enough to shoot it.

The next problem is that the drug usually takes between 3 and 5 minutes to bring an animal down. When you've fired something like this into the flank of an animal, they don't tend to like it very much, and they race off at the speed of light. So, now you've got an angry 800lb creature running away at full speed into the woods. Justin Smeja couldn't find an animal that ran about 150 yards with a bullet through it's lungs. How far is it going to run in 3 minutes? As you head off into the woods after it, it might just cross your mind that it may have buddies in there, or, that it might be lying in wait for you.

OK, so somehow you've managed to dart it without killing it, and miraculously tracked it through it's territory to where it has fallen, and there are no others around that you know of. I'd put all that at about a 1% chance........but let's suppose for a minute.........

Right, what next? You come across your unconscious sasquatch. It requires a team of people of course. One to monitor the breathing and BP. Another to take samples. A third to watch out for unwanted visitors. One to video the whole thing (who will believe you otherwise?). The choke relex has gone, and choking on its own tongue is a big possibility, and just lying awkwardly can put pressure on internal organs, often leading to their failure and death. So, you grab your samples and bolt on a GPS transmitter. It'll have to go around its ankle as it doesn't seem to have a neck. There is no way on this planet you're going to get this animal out of there. You're going to be deep in the woods with something that would take 8 people to lift, plus all those people who have to monitor it and keep it alive.

So, you'll have to administer an antidote, knowing that you should be able to come back to find it any time you want because of the anklet. Unfortunately, antidotes work rather quickly, and you are actually supposed to stick around whilst they take effect, again, amongst other reasons, to make sure that it isn't predated. In just a few minutes this rather angry and confused animal is going to get up.

Then what? You're blundering your way through his back yard trying to find your way back to your vehicle. You've got about a 2 minute head start on something very big, very quick and very annoyed. You're carrying a bag full of medical kit, tools, cameras etc. which even if it doesn't slow you down much is going to make you quite noisy. Go on, run! The very best of luck to you. If you make it, you'll be a hero.......

Mike

Wow ! you didn't read one word past the topic,like most skeptics, you have your mind made up before you even open the door.

I said A dart with a tracking chip, I didn't mention a word about drugs. Your so quick to try to slam dunk the topic, you

slammed yourself instead. I give you a little advice, look before you leap, you won't hit the ground as hard next time.

I have spotted a slight flaw in this cunning plan of yours, Ziggy.

You got to persuade an animal, which by all accounts is extremely wary, to walk out onto an area of bare earth, close to a pile of maybe 20 or 30tons of recently excavated earth, and all smelling of diesel and hydraulic oil from the excavator. It's going to take a pretty enticing bait to get it to do that, when we can't even get it to walk in front of a trail cam!!!

Mike

Well, Olympic project has pictures of one licking the camera so, there goes that theory down the drain. and who says you have to use any electric device, you can use a trip wire on the bait itself, shooting the dart with the tracking chip. like any new idea, you have to work out the details.

http://www.greaterth.../Chip_Implants/

Edited February 15, 2012 by zigoapex

[Guest RayG]

What about tasers, might they work?

RayG

[BobZenor]

The dosage tolerance range is very high for Ketamine/xylazine at 2.60 to 22.6 mg/kg when used for orangutans. There is no reasonable risk of predation no matter where you are. It would be far more likely to fall into water or off a cliff. The tolerance range is so high, there is no problem for a professional to estimate the dosage to accommodate pretty much any size animal. They did use it successfully with orangs so they must have some way to keep them from pulling out the dart. I would think the danger of falling orangutans from 100 feet up would be even harder than shooting something on the ground. Maybe they lure them down first or something. This is about the same range of tolerance as another article I read a few years ago. The risk to the animals is obviously preferable to being shot with a high power rifle. It would obviously be a challenge but it would be doable. I wouldn't want to be around when it woke up if it were a large one. It would probably be impractical to do much besides taking blood samples and other measurements.

If these creatures are ever proven to exist, even this method would probably takes years to get approved if even then.

http://books.google....%2Bwild&f=false

[Guest MikeG]

Wow ! you didn't read one word past the topic,like most skeptics,

Skeptic? Why are you saying I'm in that club? You're jumping to conclusions, with no evidence. I'm skeptical of most of the evidence, but I expect the existence of these creatures to be proven within a few weeks.

I said A dart with a tracking chip,

There is no such thing, so I discounted it.

Even the chip that you link to isn't a "tracking chip". These chips are injected under the skin of pets (and other animals) so that they can be identified in the event of dispute. My new puppy was chipped a couple of weeks ago. You have to hold the scanner about 2 inches from the skin of the animal, directly over the chip.

you can use a trip wire on the bait itself, shooting the dart with the tracking chip. like any new idea, you have to work out the details.

I think I covered this........and it was you accusing me of jumping in without reading first. Anyway, I'll say it again. You can't just fire stuff off in the woods automatically, because the odds of it hitting the intended target are pretty small, and the risk of it hitting, say, a human, would result, as I said, in them throwing away the key.

I'd love to think you can just fire a thing at an animal and then be able to follow it via GPS telemetry, because it would save the lives of the roughly 20% of darted animals who die whilst sedated. Unfortunately you can't, so I simply took your idea back a little..........to where it started to depart from reality. I'm sorry if you saw this as the start of an argument, because that was not the intention.

Mike

The dosage tolerance range is very high for Ketamine/xylazine at 2.60 to 22.6 mg/kg when used for orangutans.

Interesting. Clearly these drugs haven't come into common use in Africa, because the vets had to guess the weight very accurately, look up tables, and then very carefully load the dart with exactly the correct dose. I'm glad to hear that things might be improving, because the mortality rate is currently so high.

There is no reasonable risk of predation no matter where you are.

My daughter was with a team which darted a spotted hyaena on the Massai Mara in Kenya. It ran off, and when they caught up with it, it was being eaten by a lioness.

The danger I was talking about there was two-fold........firstly, that a dosage may be underestimated, and a drugged, sluggish animal is then wandering around in the bush unable to evade predators. Secondly, that a correctly dosed animal falls into a location that can't be reached, or somewhere it can't be found by the team, and is then, of course, extremely vulnerable to the attentions of predators.

Mike

Edited February 15, 2012 by MikeG

[BobbyO]

Pro active thinking is all good & well but you need to be realistic with it too..

" Darting " one isn't being realistic in my opinion as for all the great researchers there supposedly are out there, i doubt i could count on my right hand how many are getting close enough to them to even photograph one let alone dart one.