Bigfoot And "creeped Out" Feeling

[Guest]

Who says this has anything to do with Apes... Humans are definatly not Apes, and in my observation neither is Sasquatch... Apes where brought in with that silly notion of Giganto and all the sheep that followed that because it sounded good... All in my very humble opinion....

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Ape

Apes are the members of the Hominoidea superfamily of primates, including humans. There are two families of hominoids:

* the family Hylobatidae consists of 12 species of gibbons, including the Lar and the Siamang, collectively known as the "lesser apes"

* the family Hominidae consisting of gorillas, chimpanzees, orangutans, and Humans, collectively known as the "great apes".

Except for gorillas and Humans, all true apes are agile climbers of trees...

The great ape family was previously referred to as Pongidae, and humans (and fossil hominids) were omitted from it, but on grounds of relatedness there is no argument for doing this. Chimpanzees, gorillas, humans and orangutans are all more closely related to one another than any of these four genera are to the gibbons and siamangs. Awkwardly, however, the term "hominid" is still used with the specific meaning of extinct animals more closely related to humans than the other great apes (for example, australopithecines). It is now usual to use the subfamily Homininae to separate the hominids, in this narrow sense, from the extant non-human members of the family Hominidae.

[Guest]

Jodie,

I'm assuming bigfoot is not Homo sapiens. Thus, any human reaction to a bigfoot pheromone would not be a pheromonal reaction -- by definition.

For example, there's a human male sex pheromone that is also found, the same chemical, in pig saliva. If a human female were to get aroused by the expirations of a pig, that arousal would not be pheromonal in nature. Nor would it mean that pigs and men are members of the same species.

Sincerely,

Pteronarcyd

[Guest]

Jodie,

I'm assuming bigfoot is not Homo sapiens. Thus, any human reaction to a bigfoot pheromone would not be a pheromonal reaction -- by definition.

For example, there's a human male sex pheromone that is also found, the same chemical, in pig saliva. If a human female were to get aroused by the expirations of a pig, that arousal would not be pheromonal in nature. Nor would it mean that pigs and men are members of the same species.

Sincerely,

Pteronarcyd

Well God forbid that should ever really happen . I'm trying to figure out why that would even come up as an analogy, no offense intended. Sexual response is not the same as a survival response, there are many more factors involved other than smell that determine who you pick for a partner in any species. You know that. That's why I didn't buy into using all those ape species pheromones to attract a bigfoot. I thought to myself you might as well throw some Old Spice or Chanel #5 on a tampon and hang it up in a tree, it might work just as well. I don't think you can equate the two, but pheromones have been found to be involved in picking up danger as a survival mechanism. The example used in one of the articles I posted links for was that of a bird who picks up on a weasle's pheromones before the weasle comes into view in order to recognize a threat. They also did studies with pheromones from predator species and mice.....that is a pheromonal reaction is it not?

[Guest Spazmo]

So...

the subject of whether or not humans are apes (or BF are apes, for that matter) has already caused quite a stir on these forums. Different people hold different views on this.

Since the subject is off-topic (the creeped out feeling is the thread topic), I hope we can abandon this line of discussion or place it in another thread. Since there are more than one valid viewpoint involved, it has the potential to start some unnecessary fighting.

[Guest]

I'm not seeing it in the rules, this sounds like something from the "Minority Report".

Edited December 25, 2010 by Jodie

[Guest]

I reread what I wrote last night. Let me clarify- Pheromones are one of the postulated theories for the "creeped out feeling" and is listed in the topic heading. This aspect is not off topic. It would be impossible not to discuss the ape/human factor to some extent since Pteradactyl is right regarding pheromones for reproductive processes. Only entities of the same species would respond to that kind of stimulus. The new research says that pheromones are also responsible for stimulating the "fight or flight" response and that goes across species type based on what I've read and cited. The way it specifically works is that the animal or insect recognizes a stranger or something different caused by the pheromones of the invader. This makes the species that senses the invader react in alarm and either retreat or go into attack mode. This is what happens when humans are attacked by africanized bees. The bees first react to the human's pheromones and swarm, the human's erratic movements caused by panic further insight the attack. Our discussion was simply a matter of clarification and I personally didn't see it leading to an argument. Sorry Spazmo, the guidance just hit me wrong. I didn't feel we were off topic and certainly didn't intend for my humor to be interpreted as an insult to Ptery. Ptery's comment about a woman responding to a pig could be considered a little off color and then I thought about the guys on some bigfoot show I saw using ape pee on some kind of tampon or waxy/air freshner looking thing that they hung up in the trees to lure bigfoot in and got tickled . Then I got a visual of Granny Clampett white washing the Hippo at the cement pond because she thought it was a giant hog. Welcome to windmills of my mind

http://www.tv.com/the-beverly-hillbillies/super-hawg/episode/71313/summary.html

[Guest]

Interesting discussion. I agree for the sake of furthering discussion that humans are apes as measured by relatedness, and more importantly so do most taxonomists evidently, but some mostly non-technical folks who use the term are uncomfortable with it, just as some are uncomfortable with the ideas of humans being animals, but those that feel that way, it seems, more or less preclude themselves from having relevant contributions to discussions where those aspects of relatedness are germaine.

As for pheromones, I seem to recall that by definition pheromones were any chemical/scent used to communicate with others, presumably within one's own species when for reproduction, but there are lots of other reasons for communicating, such as dominance, territoriality, resource information, and evidently even the sexual signals do work across species as we see plenty of cross species hybrids, and even a few cross genus hybrids. Much of what humans think about how the animal world behaves takes for granted that the human way is the natural way for most other critters, which in fact is something of a 'just so' story of the kind that many prefer since those are more about getting a simple answer rather than provoking more un-answered questions, as most honest inquiry has a tendency to do.

[Guest tracker]

Hey good topic,

I thought perhaps this was about how our dulled instincts become sharper in the woods. Or maybe it's because we train ourselves to ignore them when on the job or living in the city. And why they only seem to awaken when danger is near. I don't believe pheromones are the cause for this reaction? Because it happens in many other situations with no related BF ape around.

Anyways just wondering if you want to go in this direction for a while. tracker.

[Guest]

Jodie,

Per Merriam-Webster:

Definition of

PHEROMONE

:

a chemical substance that is usually produced by an animal and serves especially as a stimulus to other individuals of the same species for one or more behavioral responses

I don't generally invent words; I just use them.

Pheromones that evoke sexual responses, alarm responses, and food gathering responses are well known.

Predator-prey responses to emitted chemicals are not pheromonal, by definition (unless the predator and prey are of the same species).

Pteronarcyd

Edited December 26, 2010 by Pteronarcyd

[Guest]

Since there are more than one valid viewpoint involved, it has the potential to start some unnecessary fighting.

How many bigfoot-related topics have only one valid viewpoint?

[Guest]

I reread what I wrote last night. Let me clarify- Pheromones are one of the postulated theories for the "creeped out feeling" and is listed in the topic heading. This aspect is not off topic. It would be impossible not to discuss the ape/human factor to some extent since Pteradactyl is right regarding pheromones for reproductive processes. Only entities of the same species would respond to that kind of stimulus. The new research says that pheromones are also responsible for stimulating the "fight or flight" response and that goes across species type based on what I've read and cited. The way it specifically works is that the animal or insect recognizes a stranger or something different caused by the pheromones of the invader. This makes the species that senses the invader react in alarm and either retreat or go into attack mode. This is what happens when humans are attacked by africanized bees. The bees first react to the human's pheromones and swarm, the human's erratic movements caused by panic further insight the attack. Our discussion was simply a matter of clarification and I personally didn't see it leading to an argument. Sorry Spazmo, the guidance just hit me wrong. I didn't feel we were off topic and certainly didn't intend for my humor to be interpreted as an insult to Ptery. Ptery's comment about a woman responding to a pig could be considered a little off color and then I thought about the guys on some bigfoot show I saw using ape pee on some kind of tampon or waxy/air freshner looking thing that they hung up in the trees to lure bigfoot in and got tickled . Then I got a visual of Granny Clampett white washing the Hippo at the cement pond because she thought it was a giant hog. Welcome to windmills of my mind

http://www.tv.com/th...13/summary.html

Jodie,

Pterodactyl!? I have rarely been more offended. A pterodactyl is but a lowly extinct winged dinosaur; a pteronarcyd is a salmonfly -- a delicacy for large wild trout throughout the intermountain west.

Just to confuse matters more, perhaps, there is a spider that emits a counterfeit moth sex pheromone to attract moths for dinner. While the moth is winging his way toward the spider's web, he is expecting a fulfilling sexual encounter because of a pheromonal invite, but because the chemical is emitted by a spider the attraction is not, by definition, pheromonal.

The first article you posted earlier has nothing to do with pheromones. It was about people being trained to differentiate between two similar smells by investigators applying a shock each time one of the odors was released. The second article was about alarm pheromones in mice -- affecting other mice of the same species.

The only way bigfoot pheromones could creep out humans is (1) if bigfoots are human, or (2) if more than one human is in the field and one human gets frightened and emits an alarm pheromone that creeps out his companion(s).

The male sex attraction pheromone isolated from pig saliva (same chemical as found in male sweat, presumably easier to collect and extract from pig spit) was used in at least one experiment. In a movie theater the chemical was applied to randomly selected seats. The investigator then observed who sat in each treated seat. A disproportionately higher likelihood of women selected those seats; thus, proving that women aren't just turned on by men's sweaty gym socks, but also pig saliva extract. I meant nothing off color by the example. As a degreed zoologist my experience with the topic of pheromones is usually in the context of sex attraction.

By the way, while in grad school one member of my class obtained a research assistantship to investigate the effect of human female menstruation on grizzly and polar bears. The faculty bounced him out of the zoology department because they determined his study was outside the realm of zoology; he had to settle for a lowly degree in wildlife biology instead.

By the way, for the sake of the moderators, my offense above at being called an extinct winged lizard is feigned.

Sincerely,

Pteronarcyd

[Guest]

Jodie,

Pterodactyl!? I have rarely been more offended. A pterodactyl is but a lowly extinct winged dinosaur; a pteronarcyd is a salmonfly -- a delicacy for large wild trout throughout the intermountain west.

Just to confuse matters more, perhaps, there is a spider that emits a counterfeit moth sex pheromone to attract moths for dinner. While the moth is winging his way toward the spider's web, he is expecting a fulfilling sexual encounter because of a pheromonal invite, but because the chemical is emitted by a spider the attraction is not, by definition, pheromonal.

The first article you posted earlier has nothing to do with pheromones. It was about people being trained to differentiate between two similar smells by investigators applying a shock each time one of the odors was released. The second article was about alarm pheromones in mice -- affecting other mice of the same species.

The only way bigfoot pheromones could creep out humans is (1) if bigfoots are human, or (2) if more than one human is in the field and one human gets frightened and emits an alarm pheromone that creeps out his companion(s).

The male sex attraction pheromone isolated from pig saliva (same chemical as found in male sweat, presumably easier to collect and extract from pig spit) was used in at least one experiment. In a movie theater the chemical was applied to randomly selected seats. The investigator then observed who sat in each treated seat. A disproportionately higher likelihood of women selected those seats; thus, proving that women aren't just turned on by men's sweaty gym socks, but also pig saliva extract. I meant nothing off color by the example. As a degreed zoologist my experience with the topic of pheromones is usually in the context of sex attraction.

By the way, while in grad school one member of my class obtained a research assistantship to investigate the effect of human female menstruation on grizzly and polar bears. The faculty bounced him out of the zoology department because they determined his study was outside the realm of zoology; he had to settle for a lowly degree in wildlife biology instead.

By the way, for the sake of the moderators, my offense above at being called an extinct winged lizard is feigned.

Sincerely,

Pteronarcyd

Salmonfly or Ptery ( whichever you prefer since I can't spell the technical name), I figured you weren't too offended . OK, so I stand corrected. However, from what you are describing, it wouldn't be necessary for a bigfoot to be of any particular species for us to be able to pick up on an alarm pheromone, am I understanding correctly?

This excerpt from an article on fish:

It is known, however, that the alarm pheromone of a species can affect even members of another superorder, if the

receiving species also has an alarm pheromone system (Mathis & Smith 1993a). Interspecific and intergeneric responses are common and often as sensitive as intraspecific responses (Smith 1982). Thus, alarm pheromones or the mechanism to

detect them may be very similar among species.

http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/Entomology/courses/en570/papers_1994/bosio.html

Then I went on and read several other things regarding what we do know about mammals and pheromones. There isn't much research done or published outside primer pheromones and sex pheromones so I guess we just have to wait and see what they find for this to really be a valid theory, assuming bigfoot is a mammal, which I think he is. You know if they develop this into a secret weapon, it would be great to use on enemy troops in forcing them to retreat without using a lot of fire power.........This might actually be an inexpensive and effective defense weapon without tearing up buildings and killing people. I'm sure if I thought of it our government is light years ahead of me on that one.

[Guest]

Jodie,

I acknowledge that interspecific responses to pheromones can occur; however, by definition, such responses are not pheromonal.

Perhaps 'pheromone' needs to be redefined, or a new word needs to be coined to denote such interspecific responses.

If we ever go to war with a tribe of Amazonian women, we can catapult in sweaty mens gym clothing (or pig saliva extract), and that should have them dropping their bows and arrows to seek satisfaction.

Pteronarcyd

[Guest]

LOLOLOL you crack me up

[ShadowBorn]

How does someone know he/she was "being observed by BF" if he/she didn't know it was being observed?

Oh yeah, he/she had the "feeling" and that indicates that BF was watching... got it.

Now this has only happen to me a few times but most of the time when you get that creep out feeling it is usually nothing.But what i have observed about these creatures is that when they are observing and you feel it what they will do is let you know they are there by either showing themselves or in some way letting you know that it is them.

The problem is whether the intention of these creatures is good towards us humans or not.They either like you or not if they like you well then you will see more proof of there presense and existance. If they dislike you well then you can say good bye to all the research you have put forth becuase they will move from that area and you will be out of luck.They know our intentions towards them and they know if we will bring them harm or not and trust has to be earned by us towards them.Whether it takes a year or many years they will not let you be a part and your research will now become void.Defense and offense is a trade that they carry very well.

If our Military was ever able to do what these guys are capable of we would rule any country we ever wanted with a team of these fellows

Jetti's of the forest thats what i would call them but this is my opionion.