Guest BuzzardEater Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 The gunsmith looked at you like you were nuts with good reason. There is no such gun and there is no need for one. The 10 ga is primarily used for bird hunting. The gauge does not measure power, but the amount of shot it takes to weight a pound at that size. Also, an over/under does not use a magazine. It is a double barrel, and you only get 2 shots. Are you guys checking this stuff out before you post? Who has seen any large terrestrial mammal "swim like crazy underwater"?....not to mention going a couple of miles in a couple of minutes? 30 mph is a light jog for them? How do you know this? Can they leap tall buildings in a single bound too? We are talking about flesh and blood animals with mortal limitations. A lot of the posts on here are starting to sound like kids posting about about some monster they encounter on the 5th level on some video game. You don't have to hit it in the eye to kill it, the bullets you use don't have to be able to penetrate steel, sasquatches are not armor plated (as far as we know, lol). If they bleed, have a heart, lungs, liver, arteries, brain, etc., they can be shot and killed by getting hit in the vitals just like everything else on this planet. Just like I said in an earlier post on this thread, I have seen hippos, rhinos, and even elephants taken out with one shot. Sasquatches, by all reports, are no where near as large or tough and cannot possibly have bones as thick or dense as those animals. Think about it folks.... I was kidding when I asked about a huge gun. I was making light of the fact that there isn't such a thing as a BF gun. If there was what would it look like? Something that can slow a charge with weight , but still have a penetrant shot. I am actually a bit amused that you think an elephant gun might work. Try it. I hope the smaller calibre helps when the BF applies it to you as a suppository. One shot? Hahaha! Unless you train daily with sims I doubt you take that shot and if you do I doubt you'll be very accurate as you will be multi tasking while filling your diaper. Seriously. There is nothing that will prepare you. Imagine stepping on a dragon's tail while walking in your yard. It is that level of shock. If you are the sort of guy that will take the shot, as your posts indicate, I invite you to learn as little as possible. Suspend all reading. Go on out there with your elephant gun and attitude. Please. I am sure the BF will wilt before your common sense approach and lie still so you can make your shot. It'll be just like shooting a hippo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BuzzardEater Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 My objection to dogs is that they bark like idiots. That ain't going to help. I think you are going to be detected, anyway, no sense in making it easier for the opponent. Perhaps if you were working teams you could use dogs to flush the subject. I do not personally believe BFs are afraid of dogs, though. Considering that dogs cannot defend against humans, chasing BFs is asking a lot. The dog won't win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 (edited) Yes i do see where your coming from and I don't believe a shot to the chest would bring one down. Were not talking about fat elephants that are susceptible to deep bullet penetration. Wait until you see one first then get back to me with your theories. Bullets penetrate flesh, not just fat. Don't take my word for it, google it. Look up ballistics, bullet penetration charts, etc. Specific bullets are made to penetrate bone and muscle, and to do so deeply and with great precision and devastating effect. I don't have to see a sasquatch to know that bullets penetrate clean through muscle and hard, thick bone. Btw, elephants are routinely shot in the head, not usually in fatty areas. They are shot in their extremely thick skulls, and the bullets penetrate and kill them. I am backing up what I say with real life examples of known animals and verifiable circumstances. I do, however, respect that you said "...I don't believe a shot to the chest would bring one down." We are getting somewhere when we can agree that we don't really know, we just suspect & believe. You believe based on seeing a BF, and I believe based on hunting other animals and seeing others hunt other animals. I can live with that & agree to disagree, no absolutes until we actually have verifiable BF to physically study. I hope that happens soon! I can seriously respect someone who will admit that they don't really know, but just believes something for reason "x", because I don't really know either, and no one else does. We all have our reasons for believing, though. I was kidding when I asked about a huge gun. I was making light of the fact that there isn't such a thing as a BF gun. If there was what would it look like? Something that can slow a charge with weight , but still have a penetrant shot. I am actually a bit amused that you think an elephant gun might work. Try it. I hope the smaller calibre helps when the BF applies it to you as a suppository. One shot? Hahaha! Unless you train daily with sims I doubt you take that shot and if you do I doubt you'll be very accurate as you will be multi tasking while filling your diaper. Seriously. There is nothing that will prepare you. Imagine stepping on a dragon's tail while walking in your yard. It is that level of shock. If you are the sort of guy that will take the shot, as your posts indicate, I invite you to learn as little as possible. Suspend all reading. Go on out there with your elephant gun and attitude. Please. I am sure the BF will wilt before your common sense approach and lie still so you can make your shot. It'll be just like shooting a hippo. I didn't realize you were kidding about the huge gun, but that makes sense. Please paste my quote where I said I would use an elephant gun so that the rest of your comments about me will line up. Btw, elephant guns are not small caliber weapons, lol. They are very large caliber rifles, otherwise they would not be able to bring down the largest land animal on earth; think about it. The .458 Winchester and .460 Weatherby are common rifles used for elephants and other dangerous game. I have no problem shooting a large animal. I am not sure why you think any experienced hunter would have a problem with shooting a large animal such a a BF with an adequate rifle for any reason other than a potentially moral or ethical one. Like I said to Tracker, no one knows anything about BF for sure, so how can you be so confident in what you are saying? At least I am backing up what I am saying with real world experience with other known animals (who happen to be larger than BF and very dangerous), and with a longtime knowledge of hunting, firearms, bullets, and ballistics. In the absence of an actual BF study group to physically observe scientifically on a regular basis, theoretical comparisons are the best we can do, and are actually what scientist (Dr. Meldrum included) do. Think about it. If you disagree, that is ok, but please give your detailed reasoning, not just some sentence like what you've written above with nothing technical to back it up. Btw, I don't train with sims. I shoot live rounds at stationary and moving targets, and I hunt and shoot live game. 1st person shooters and Xbox 360 doesn't hone real world shooting skills, and neither to close quarter computer simulations. There is nothing like the real thing. Edited July 2, 2011 by Surveyor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cervelo Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Yes i do see where your coming from and I don't believe a shot to the chest would bring one down. Were not talking about fat elephants that are susceptible to deep bullet penetration. Wait until you see one first then get back to me with your theories. What the heck does seeing one have to do with how they can be killed! I've heard no discussion of body armor wearing bigfoot. I've been very close to elephants (as in physical contact) and can assure you your assessment of their physical make up is a little off. Please let's us know when you give biggie his next physical! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 My objection to dogs is that they bark like idiots. That ain't going to help. I think you are going to be detected, anyway, no sense in making it easier for the opponent. Perhaps if you were working teams you could use dogs to flush the subject. I do not personally believe BFs are afraid of dogs, though. Considering that dogs cannot defend against humans, chasing BFs is asking a lot. The dog won't win. The dogs are not used to strike fear into the prey necessarily. Bears are not afraid of the dogs. They could easily kill the dogs. Chasing the animals with dogs is playing on an instinct that nearly all animals have. When the dogs begin pursuit and begin the calls that they use while pursuing, it causes the animals to instinctively go into flight mode. This works, with very little exception, with all species of land animal, predators included. It even works on people. Even though we are superior to dogs and can easily kill them, it is our instinct to run, and we must fight that instinct to do anything else. BF would most likely do the same. In fact, in the reports I have read so far in my new book (got it for Father's Day, thanks kids!) all of the BF who have been chased by dogs so far have ran. Most of them rand toward swamps, creeks or rivers. It is very hard to scent track an animal in or across water. Anyway, hunting BF with dogs in the mountainous PNW, I would assume (never been there), would be to keep track of him, tire him out, and hope to bay him up somewhere so that the hunting party could approach and move in for the kill or capture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incorrigible1 Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I was kidding when I asked about a huge gun. I was making light of the fact that there isn't such a thing as a BF gun. If there was what would it look like? Something that can slow a charge with weight , but still have a penetrant shot. I am actually a bit amused that you think an elephant gun might work. Try it. I hope the smaller calibre helps when the BF applies it to you as a suppository. I'd request a FN FAL: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 (edited) I read the first couple of pages and then this last one. I have to agree with Norseman and some of the other obviously experienced hunters. For those who have said you can't kill a BF with one shot, I very much disagree. It is the shooter, not the rifle, that determines that, with certain limitations (caliber-wise). I guarantee there is no terrestrial animal on the planet that cannot be put down with one shot. I have seen hippos, elephants, and rhinos killed with one shot, so I know a BF can easily be taken out with one. A deer-sized round placed in the vitals will end his day. If you shoot one in the chest with the 45/70 SurfingCowboy mentioned with about a 300 to 400 gr bullet it will knock him backward so hard he'll leave a body impression in the ground at short range. For those who said a BF would be hard to hit because they move too fast, running through the woods, the entire point in hunting one is to catch it unaware. Unless they constantly run everywhere they go, it should be an easy shot. Also, I am sure I am not the only hunter on here who has successfully made shots on running animals, though I don't like to. I cannot see a massive bipedal animal running faster than a deer. Here in the South, it used to be a tradition to hunt deer with dogs, mostly running Walkers, and if you got a shot, many times the deer was zipping by with the dogs in hot pursuit. I have not hunted that way in nearly 20 years, but I have done it. If dogs were used to track a BF, I am betting it would turn out similar to a bear or hog hunt, in that the dogs would pursue the BF until it tired, and then they would bay it up in a thicket, tree, or cave, etc. That's when the hunter comes in for the kill, hoping it doesn't jump & run again. Agreed to all of it. My dog discussion over at the BFRO got locked quick when I started talking catch dogs. They have a plan to track a squatch with a dog on a leash, like a blood hound. Being a recent former hound hunter (Washington outlawed cougar hunting with hounds this spring so I gave my red bones away) I tried to explain to them that the blood hound works because a human target isn't moving along all that fast. If you tried to track a cougar with a blood hound on a leash, you would be on it's trail for 20 years. Big game **** hounds motor fast, and stress the target until in exhaustion it either bays up in thick brush or it trees to escape the dogs. In the case of a Sasquatch? It might not be a bad idea to have a few catch dogs in the mix. I personally think the perfect breed for the job is the Dogo Argentino: This is a large 100 lbs dog that will latch on and won't let go until either you make him release or he dies. Think pitbull on major steroids here. 2-3 of these dogs will pin a very large Russian boar to the ground and hold him til you get there. The latching on part made the BFRO queasy, but my focus is a type specimen. In order to kill it, you have to catch it, and I think this is about the most aggressive way to catch one. The lynch pin to the whole affair is a dog that can be trained on Squatch scent. Dogo's are not a **** hound, they don't have a nose. They need a dog that can get them to the fight. And a houndsman needs to be fast, if the fight goes too long, you may be putting dogs back together, although as you can see from the video they are used to that sort of thing. For those PETA people following this thread, brutal? Yes. But very effective. ****=c o o n Edited July 2, 2011 by norseman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Yes i do see where your coming from and I don't believe a shot to the chest would bring one down. Were not talking about fat elephants that are susceptible to deep bullet penetration. Wait until you see one first then get back to me with your theories. I promise you bro that a shot to the chest is going to end his life with the proper caliber. I don't care if your super man, if your missing a good portion of your heart your a goner. If your lungs have both been punctured with a half inch hole? Your going to drown in your own blood. It may not stop the charge though, there is such a thing as being "dead on it's feet" and this can be the most dangerous time. And let's face facts here, a bull African elephant is the hardest animal to take down on the planet. I've seen a head shot with a .600 nitro express DEFLECT off of it's skull. It almost cost the hunter his life, luckily a deadfall stopped the charge short. Very lucky. Tracker I have no doubt these animals are intimidating, no doubt. But a 800-1000 lbs ape is not a 12,000 lbs elephant........something that size takes a enormous amount of punishment. With that said, I can understand that a Squatch is ape smart and it has opposable thumbs, it probably climbs and swings limbs as clubs. Each species presents it's own unique set of challenges. Trichromatic vision and smarts is a very potent combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 My objection to dogs is that they bark like idiots. That ain't going to help. I think you are going to be detected, anyway, no sense in making it easier for the opponent. Why wouldn't it help? The whole point of the game is to make the animal run in fear until it is exhausted. If you think you have a pack of hell hounds hot on your heels? All the better. Perhaps if you were working teams you could use dogs to flush the subject. I do not personally believe BFs are afraid of dogs, though. If the animal stands it's ground and doesn't run, all the better, the humans with guns are close behind. Considering that dogs cannot defend against humans, chasing BFs is asking a lot. The dog won't win. It's a lose/lose situation for the animal, stand and fight? You die.........run away? You die tired. The only hope the animal has is that it some how shakes the dogs off of it's track and they lose it's scent. (In Vietnam the North Vietnamese used tracking dogs to hunt down US Recon teams, the modus operendi of Recon was to sprinkle CS gas powder on their back trail, and when the dog sniffed it, he didn't smell anything anymore other than something akin to chili peppers......just a bit of trivia) Our ancestors didn't raise various hunting dog breeds for the fun of it. They did it because it was effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tracker Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 What the heck does seeing one have to do with how they can be killed! I've heard no discussion of body armor wearing bigfoot. I've been very close to elephants (as in physical contact) and can assure you your assessment of their physical make up is a little off. Please let's us know when you give biggie his next physical! Wow, so you know what your up against without ever having seen one or from any direct Bf experience? What did you do read a book or visualize? I consider letting you know about Biggie physical status after you have earned some direct experience. For now stick with the very challenging to track elephants. Yea I am sure they are very hard to hunt and kill on safari concession or game reserve. nice JMO tracker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tracker Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Bullets penetrate flesh, not just fat. Don't take my word for it, google it. Look up ballistics, bullet penetration charts, etc. Specific bullets are made to penetrate bone and muscle, and to do so deeply and with great precision and devastating effect. I don't have to see a sasquatch to know that bullets penetrate clean through muscle and hard, thick bone. Btw, elephants are routinely shot in the head, not usually in fatty areas. They are shot in their extremely thick skulls, and the bullets penetrate and kill them. I am backing up what I say with real life examples of known animals and verifiable circumstances. I do, however, respect that you said "...I don't believe a shot to the chest would bring one down." We are getting somewhere when we can agree that we don't really know, we just suspect & believe. You believe based on seeing a BF, and I believe based on hunting other animals and seeing others hunt other animals. I can live with that & agree to disagree, no absolutes until we actually have verifiable BF to physically study. I hope that happens soon! I can seriously respect someone who will admit that they don't really know, but just believes something for reason "x", because I don't really know either, and no one else does. We all have our reasons for believing, though. I didn't realize you were kidding about the huge gun, but that makes sense. Please paste my quote where I said I would use an elephant gun so that the rest of your comments about me will line up. Btw, elephant guns are not small caliber weapons, lol. They are very large caliber rifles, otherwise they would not be able to bring down the largest land animal on earth; think about it. The .458 Winchester and .460 Weatherby are common rifles used for elephants and other dangerous game. I have no problem shooting a large animal. I am not sure why you think any experienced hunter would have a problem with shooting a large animal such a a BF with an adequate rifle for any reason other than a potentially moral or ethical one. Like I said to Tracker, no one knows anything about BF for sure, so how can you be so confident in what you are saying? At least I am backing up what I am saying with real world experience with other known animals (who happen to be larger than BF and very dangerous), and with a longtime knowledge of hunting, firearms, bullets, and ballistics. In the absence of an actual BF study group to physically observe scientifically on a regular basis, theoretical comparisons are the best we can do, and are actually what scientist (Dr. Meldrum included) do. Think about it. If you disagree, that is ok, but please give your detailed reasoning, not just some sentence like what you've written above with nothing technical to back it up. Btw, I don't train with sims. I shoot live rounds at stationary and moving targets, and I hunt and shoot live game. 1st person shooters and Xbox 360 doesn't hone real world shooting skills, and neither to close quarter computer simulations. There is nothing like the real thing. I am ex force so I have some understand about ballistics, tactics, tracking and target elimination. Not many people walk around NA with .458 or .460's. So sure if someone had a weapons like those and a clear LOS. However my opinion from my Bf experiences is that a hunter would not get a clear LOS to take a vital shot. Not sure if i mentioned that? Sure under perfect conditions but it's not likely to happen. JMO tracker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cervelo Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Wow, so you know what your up against without ever having seen one or from any direct Bf experience? What did you do read a book or visualize? I consider letting you know about Biggie physical status after you have earned some direct experience. For now stick with the very challenging to track elephants. Yea I am sure they are very hard to hunt and kill on safari concession or game reserve. nice http://bigfootforums.com/public/style_emoticons/default /dry.gif JMO tracker Another "expert research" laying down the challenge because of his vast experience. The "get back to me when" BS is getting a little old Tracker! Yeah let's exchange outdoor resumes real soon I'm sure you will "win" in your own mind. Enjoyed the little derail keep us posted on your invicincable Bigfoot buddy experiences! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SurfingCowboy Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Surveyor, Norseman, and Tracker I have read alot of your comments and thoughts. I have come to the conclusion that a team consisting of you three and if possible myself would be ideal for hunting/tracking down BF. Each of you has what seem to be distinct training and behavior that would play into and ideal group; BF wouldn't know what hit him. Between what seems to be the ability to track them and follow and get close as a human. To a person how could be distracting them by having dogs hot on their heels to someone not afraid to take a shot and then I know a bit about survival and medical training, we would be able to put him in a situation he has never been before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I am ex force so I have some understand about ballistics, tactics, tracking and target elimination. Not many people walk around NA with .458 or .460's. So sure if someone had a weapons like those and a clear LOS. However my opinion from my Bf experiences is that a hunter would not get a clear LOS to take a vital shot. Not sure if i mentioned that? Sure under perfect conditions but it's not likely to happen. JMO tracker The 2nd portion of comments were in response to Buzzardeater's comments to me. He said that elephant guns were of small caliber, and I responded showing that they are not, and I listed 2 of the common elephant gun calibers. I wasn't saying I would use those calibers necessarily, although it is not out of the question. I am confident using any caliber I would use on a grizzly or brown bear, as they are similar in size and make up. Obviously, as a conscientious hunter, I would not take a shot without a clear line of sight, and anything less would not be ethical. You did start this thread asking how people on here might capture of kill as sasquatch, so I assume it is ok to answer with how I would do it. Norseman and I both have provided viable answers as to how we might stack the odds in our favor as far as getting a clean shot on one - baying it up with hunting & catch dogs, hunting from elevated stands, etc. (Norseman provided most of the answers). That is how I would do it. I am not sure how I would capture one, and I personally do not think I would try. The only traps I personally see working that I know how to make and use are traps that kill (snares catching the neck, I think they could get out of snares catching a leg or arm). Tranquilizer darts are iffy in that: 1) they have a very short range 2) you have to also have a very clear shot 3) the drug dosage is determined by weight. If it is too little, it will not work. If it is too much, it could kill the animal or put it in a permanent coma. 4) the drug usually does not drop the animal on the spot, but takes several seconds to knock it out. The animal, if alarmed from the sound of the dart gun or the impact of the dart, can travel a good distance in that time. Then you have to track it with no sign to follow, unlike in the case of a gunshot where you have a blood trail. If it takes you too long, depending on the drug used, the animal could either wake up or die (some drugs wear off after time and some require a "reversing agent") I know the info above from working with captive deer at MS State University. Other than that, I am clueless as far as capture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tracker Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Another "expert research" laying down the challenge because of his vast experience. The "get back to me when" BS is getting a little old Tracker! Yeah let's exchange outdoor resumes real soon I'm sure you will "win" in your own mind. Enjoyed the little derail keep us posted on your invicincable Bigfoot buddy experiences! I am sure I'll win to that's too funny. I am not the one who reached for a crutch and dragged in personal experiences in the field to support their own opinion. In fact you asked me where I was coming from on why I think they would be so hard to kill. All I am going to say is "don't bring a knife to a gun fight" and that cliche is old too but it's still cuts through your BS real fast. How would either of you two guys get a Bf into position and then kill one? Maybe you can blind him with your BS and then bore him to death with your real life hunting experiences? lol. Now that's funny. Enjoy the thread, still laughing invincible Bigfoot buddy experiences. How did you know? JMO tracker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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