Missing 411

[Guest Cervelo]

Me, I just stopped saying "Hi!" when I'm sitting 15 ft back off a trail, and other people walk past... it'll cause a heart attack or something...

I like dull colors also, funny thing, seem to get closer to deer when wearing dark blue

Scared the you know what out of a group in Yellowstone last year.

We where approaching each other I could hear them before I saw them, they started yelling "hey bear" so I I'm thinking crap where is the bear?

Then I realized they thought I was a bear!

I'm on two feet, forest green shorts, black shirt and vest, blue backpack.

I kept walking towards them, they all stopped, kept yelling hey bear, one poor women started heading the other way until I said hello.

Should've just walked into the woods and we would've had another confirmed Bigfoot sighting of a juvie with a baby on its back!!

[Guest]

Why are these books so dang expensive? My library will never drop $100 for a book like this...I sure as heck can't afford it.

[Guest]

This post is kind of a rant.

This is pure Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc book. Or coincident in correlation. One of the best selling points trying to correlate one set of data with another and offer a conclusion. There is nothing to logically connect the two premises. Here is a sample of a "post hoc" logical fallacy.

Last year congress spent 1 Billion on after school programs (chart showing incline). As a result, the national crime rate dropped (chart showing decline).

Fact, more people are killed by Mnt. Lions, harassed by coyotes and in/on popular camp grounds and trails. One case involved a father and two boys, the father turned and the youngest disappeared. The father never hearing a sound and the boy has never been found. The only evidence found were lion tracks.

(condensed version)

I know first hand seeing a friend attacked by a Mnt Lion on a popular hiking trail when I was 13 in Southern Arizona. The lion actually pounced, missed my friend and claws snagged his backpack. My friend spun around and the Lion was literally spinning around with left paw on the straps as my friend was spinning. The lion let go and started to "walk" away. An image burned in my mind. And we (both after the fact) thought it was a Golden Retriever at first, since we just saw one that morning with a hiker in front of us. Then my friend ran towards me, we both ran like hell for about 200 yards not stopping until we bumped into a group of adult hikers. To this day... when I'm out on trails I am extremely cautious. The lion was killed later that day by Pima County sherifs and turned out was sick and not afraid of humans. (the worst combination).

I want to emphasize the fear factor this book will introduce. The image being portrayed would come from this are possible: Bigfoot prey on children, hunting parties gather and kill Bigfoot (just like sharks), the media/hollywood creates more hype, stories get bigger and because carless correlation of data. There must be a responsible edicate by all in the Bigfoot camp on either side. DO NOT sensationalize death of children by an unknown mammal or try to correlate the numbers of missing children in forested areas due to "possibly" Sasquatch. Having not read the material, I would "hope" this author also adds location data of Pedophiles in these areas as well as other predators. I'm afraid more books are being written ridding the Bigfoot craze of late to capitalize and spout logical fallacies, pure speculation. I want to see Bigfoot exist, I pray, I scout for them. However, I must look at this scientifically. ButI dont give them a bad name just to sell a book.

Typed on an iPhone, bad splelling

[Guest]

I'm seeing $25, but yah, I can't get every new book or toy either.... the 'rents say they paid **** good money for the Lee Majors action stunt set and and I should play with that more.

So finally been catching up on the whole thread...

I know of the hypothermia thing, so yah, that's quite likely.

A lot are lost just before storms? WooooOOOooooo... I am thinking it's rather more likely that since the storm makes it **** difficult to find them, i.e. scent and sign washes out, then a certain percentage, equal to the likelihood of a storm blowing up on a given day, are far less likely to be found.... and they risk getting drenched and then doing the paradoxical striptease etc.

and so to BF.. well, even if the incidence of misfits, psychopaths and infant bereft mothers is ten times what it is in HSS society, there's still 99% probability it was HSS variants of the same... a chilling thought in my head was that there might be HSS monsters play acting at normal, having a wife and kids, doing nasty things each year on their solo camping vacation(s) ... then also I am privy to instances of abusers seeking positions that would put them in daily contact with their targets, so wonder if the parks service would attract one or two, who think they can hide behind the "normal" amount of missing persons and bear, cougar and stupidity victims.

Another point, from a personal experience, missing kids may run from rescuers, not because they are strangers, but because they think they are cops or "the authorities" and they are in deep trouble... for example, they decide to sneak off on their own, which is fun for an hour, but they think of themselves by then as "being naughty" or doing something bad, which will elicit a response they fear, even just being admonished and grounded, so they get really worried and run when people start yelling their name... they may not quite separate wandering off as just being naughty and think it actually criminal, since many things the parents might tell them not to do would be... anyway... local missing boys case, wandered off, one says to the other "it's the cops, run!".. but thankfully the cop who had spotted them was pretty fit and caught them.

Also not sure there's much conspiracy involved in the parks service not having a central database or anything, I presume they'd pass it on case by case to local/state/federal law enforcement... kinda like asking a bar owner for a database of parking lot brawls... I am sure though that now the issue of appearingly frequent and possibly systematic disappearances is coming up, they might think about having a policy about it and attempting to do it.

However out of thousands of cases, we may indeed have a handful that may seem to implicate rogue BFs, I've always thought they could go just as wrong as humans, and I have had the idea before that many that we might have most contact with are those forced out of "normal" BF culture such as they may have it. I think that "normally" they would be aware that missing human = forest swarming with (often armed) humans.... to the extent maybe that occasionally they may aid lost and injured humans and put them where they are easily found, specifically to avoid this (Though compassion could be another explanation)

Crater lake though, we've had a big thread and suspicions about that place before.... even a story that would seem to indicate a whole clan of them "gone wrong" or driven mad with hunger in the lean months.

Anyway, stay sharp, we don't know what we're dealing with out there...

[Guest]

I know I don't camp near that lake anymore. Not just because of that story. I will camp out near K Falls if I want to see the lake and day trip from there.

[norseman]

I almost always wear my bright pink columbia when camping in the national forests. I make a perimiter, and I stay within it. I play loud music and do interesting things, like make fire. There are "secondary" perimiters made, such as to the creek for water. I try to be as "dependable" in my actions as possible when in the deep dark of the woods. These are not "developed" campsites, but obviously places that people have camped before. It's a "people" place at that point. Not intrusive or intruding or startling or disturing, it's just people being in a "people" place. Like people walking on a trail might be good to look at.

I like to think that doing this increases the chance that curiosity will.....be curious.

And I would much rather by a million have an encounter with the big guy because he was relaxed and curious and interested in watching my "people TV" rather than startling a sketchy young male. I put the sound recorder just outside the perimiter, and the game cam is ALWAYS aimed right at the truck where we sleep. Because. You know why.

Then I take a lot of still photos, some vids. I look for prints by the creek. I've found two seperate single prints in four years, not a stellar return, I know. But I am ever hopeful.

So I am not in the "blendy" colors camp. But there are rules that I have made for myself that go along with that.

What a hippie...........

[Guest SquatchinNY]

Show me the Crater Lake story.

-Thanks

[VAfooter]

Might be talking about this one that was near Crater Lake:

http://www.ak47.net/mobile/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1047961&page=8

RickyRifle, about a third of the way down

One of my all time creepest reports....

[Guest]

Yeah, that's the one I was thinking. What gives me the PARTICULAR creeps about that, is that it perfectly describes ancient hominid beating/driving type of hunting behaviour, and in that case the "beaters" would have been the weaker/sicker/older of the clan, and the prime specimen males would have been in position to ambush somewhere in the rear... so I say if that happens to you and you've got no vehicle, put on your war face and run at the line's weakest looking point yelling your head off, because you don't wanna face what's the other way. Those ones look scary enough but aren't the ones prepared to fight or kill. Refuse to be flushed, what you are seeing is not the most dangerous end of the trap.

Oh and by the way, if armed shoot to kill, if they are desperate enough to attack humans and the hunt goes into disarray, they may turn on their own dead or seriously wounded instead, if you start to look like too much trouble... conserve ammo though, you may get a little bit of a head start as the plan falls apart, but if they regroup quickly and pursue you'll need to turn, take up a firing position, and make sure of as many as you can... you may have to do this several times... a fighting retreat... I know it's a mighty big IF, but IF this happens to you, you are not going to survive unless you are hyper aggressive and take the initiative.

[VAfooter]

If you have time to go through all of the pages, some pretty interesting stories on there. Interspersed with the usual ridicule and joking of course.

This particular incident was pretty terrifying for a number of reasons; the extremely remote location, lack of backup available, sheer number of creatures, presumed creature intent, percieved creature actions (intelligent stalking/hunting tactics). Had they not gotten out of there when they did, I wonder how the headlines would have read the next day?

"Men Abandon Vehicle During Snowstorm - Reason Unknown"

"Massive Search Underway For Missing Man, Son"

"Missing Man & Son Stump Searchers"

"Man & Son Disappear - Why?"

[Guest Boolywooger]

The RickyRifle story is one of the creepiest I've read as well. I wonder if it really was the hairy folk. The face is not described, but the tall skinny description fits a dogman scenario more than a 'squatch scenario.

[VAfooter]

I thought the same thing, but as far as I know, Dogmen have not been reported in OR.

[kbhunter]

Booly, I agree with you. The dogman scenario is one I have recently become aware of. This is what it sounds like to me too. There has been "dogman" sightings here within a few miles of my house on a few occasions.

KB

[Guest]

I have not read the books but have listenend to all radio interviews and researched the internet. I was just thinking about this dogface/man creature. I have never been interested in those stories, kinda werwolf like creatures running around in the woods. So do you believe this creature is somehow connected to BF? I read somewhere on this forum that some of you think it´s like a subspecies of BF? Are there any respected researchers out there that support this theory?

This missing 411 book has really got me thinking and I have no idea "what" could be responsible. One of my theories is that BF actually travels via cavessystems/tunnels that are scattered through the US. Most of these caves have not been fully explored yet or even found. So BF could just pop out at some place abduct a person and retreat to his hidden cave/tunnel. That could explain a number of scenarios detailed in David Paulides book. But there are still to many cases that would not add up with that. So im still on the fence. There is also an interesting thread on this forum about BF inside caves. It would make a lot of sence for BF to use them for his advantage.

The scratches that some of the people had on their bodies could be the result of them running from something, reminds me of the blair witch project. A person being chased by something in panic will not notice the scratches because of the adrenalin levels. If you managed to escape from a dogfaced sasquach creature and it was on your trail, especially at nighttime you would run through all types of bushes regardless.

I will order the east coast edition as soon as I have a little more money.

Edited November 14, 2012 by hesse

[TedSallis]

Does anyone know why this book would be selling for $73,00 and up on Amazon? I cannot imagine what could justify that kind of price. I do see one version for $25.00 but the other...??