Missing 411

[Guest]

I found the book (singular) that I read to be heavily sensationalized and selectively researched. Paulides played up elements of the story that fit the narrative he wanted, while ignoring or downplaying any evidence to the contrary.

ETA: Darrell, here's a better question: if 20 people go missing from a huge national park that sees millions of visitors every year, is that odd, or is that to be expected, especially when the disappearances are spread out over years or decades?

Edited August 1, 2013 by leisureclass

[Guest Darrell]

^of course thats not strange at all.  We had a local guy go missing while kyaking the local river that runs strait thru town. Never found him. And I would say tens of thousands of people frequent the same river each summer for swimming, boating, tubing, kyaking, and fishing and each year a handfull go missing. But nobody is saying there is some kind of cover up.  Paulides writes books to sell so he can make money, and conspiricy and mystery sells. IMO he spins and sensationalizes his subject matter to enhance those elements. But like I said, I havent read his 411 books (but I have read the Hoopa Project).  

[Guest]

Paulides suggests the park service is covering up through allegedly denying his FOIA requests. He also suggests that the government knows what's going on by claiming that army special forces were brought into the area with heavy weapons after some disappearances.

My larger point, though, was that Paulides is sensationalizing the tragic - but expected - disappearances of a few people in order to make a buck. In doing so, he alters the facts to suit his storyline.

[chelefoot]

odd element= Clothing and pack placed in the middle of the river on a rock, otherwise untouched?

[Guest]

Taken out of context, that would seem odd. Could you maybe give the person's name and location?

[chelefoot]

It's in the East 411 book.

Great Smokey Mountain National Park

Geoffrey Hague

page 116

[Guest]

odd element= Clothing and pack placed in the middle of the river on a rock, otherwise untouched?

 

You mean like someone wanted to go swimming, then got swept under?

[Guest]

Or, Paulides overstated the case, as per his MO.  From contemporary accounts, it sounds like he stopped to take a break while his group went on ahead, took the wrong fork while trying to catch up, and bad things happened.  According to newspaper accounts, it was only Hague's extra clothes and supplies that were found piled on a boulder; he was still fully dressed when his searchers found his body.  It was also mentioned that he had been fascinated with wilderness survival and camping - the rangers seemed to think that he'd been trying to build a camp, from the sounds of things.  They also don't make any mention of the clothes being in the middle of a river, only that they were piled on a rock.  Moreover, given the weather at the time he disappeared (snow at least 16 inches deep, with drifts up to four feet, with roughly a foot of snow falling in the 48 hours after he went missing), any river would almost certainly be covered by ice and snow to the point where it'd be indistinguishable from dry ground, so it's not like he needed to swim or wade out to any such boulder.  Finally, the searchers eventually found prints he'd made after the snow fall, and he was alone - no other tracks with him. 

Edited August 2, 2013 by leisureclass

[chelefoot]

Now you have me curious. My brother knows Mr. Martin, Dennis Martin's father (also missing from the GSMNP) who thinks the FBI was most definitely hiding something in the case in regards to the sighting of a dark figure carrying something through the forest by the Key family. Then when questioned, the Forest Ranger in charge admits to the existence of "wild men" in the forest. Thoughts?

[Guest Darrell]

I can add that the state and federal park services have their own law enforcement agencies so Im a little suprised the FBI would be involved. I'll be talking with a FBI agent later today and I'll ask her if its common to have them involved with those types of missing person cases.  

[chelefoot]

I think they only get involved in cases where there is evidence of abduction or foul play. At least that is what is stated in the book.

The FBI did not allow the siting of the man to go public. They ruled that it could not have been related to the boys disappearance. So why were they there? Later the Park Ranger admits that it very well could have been related. Just sounds fishy to me.

[Guest Darrell]

Thats not exactly true. Everyone thinks the FBI gets called on every case and thats not really true. My understanding is jurisdiction would be to the park service 1811's first, and they would enlist the FBI only if they were not able to handle the investigation themselves. Ill get the scoop directly from an actual FBI agent later today. As far as stuff sounding fishy, I would have to say Paulides picks the cases that are to put in his books. Thats why I think if there are 10 reasonable cases for every fishy one where is the conspiricy?

[Guest Darrell]

Now you have me curious. My brother knows Mr. Martin, Dennis Martin's father (also missing from the GSMNP) who thinks the FBI was most definitely hiding something in the case in regards to the sighting of a dark figure carrying something through the forest by the Key family. Then when questioned, the Forest Ranger in charge admits to the existence of "wild men" in the forest. Thoughts?

 I didnt relize this missing person case was from 1969. Thats 44 yrs ago. Things were done alot different back then. But the thing that really confuses me is the whole Army Special Forces thing. 1969 was at the hight of the Vietnam War and most SF guys that I know from that era state they were constantly deployed and spent little time stateside. It was common for some of those guys to rotate back into conventional Airborne and Infantry units to avoid the rotations. it seems to me that it would have been more reasonable to have had local reserve and national guard troops participate in the SAR operation. And really, who says they were Special Forces?  

[chelefoot]

The book says the National Guard and Green Berets were there.

"Forty Special Forces (Green Berets) form the Third Army Headquarters in Fort Benning, GA were requested and dispatched.."

 

"Forty additional Green Berets would arrive later in the week."

"Two Huey helicopters from the Air Force were requested and dispatched"....

 

The coast Guard was also there.

 

 

Who did all the requesting of these guys I wonder...

[Guest Darrell]

I guess if you believe what Paulides writes is 100% true then I cant add anything.