Guest BFSleuth Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I think our understanding of communication of other species is in its infancy. This might be helpful for some of us: http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=s7Zv6-_C3MoC&oi=fnd&pg=PA289&dq=language+in+animals&ots=Tga7cM4wYe&sig=S_idUQN3CYhqdW_tIOqfiu3-XWE#v=onepage&q=language%20in%20animals&f=false Chapter 19 - Knowledge Acquisition and Asymmetry between Language Comprehension and Production: Dolphins and Apes as General Models for Animals, Louis M. Herman and Palmer Morrel-Samuels Conclusions: "The language comprehension work with the dolphins, the recent work by Savage-Rumbaugh with the pygmy chimpanzee Kanzi, and some of the earlier work of Premack, have revealed competencies for language not realized in other work emphasizing language production. The message from these findings is twofold: (1) animals, in general, seem engineered primarily as efficient, broadband monitors of their world and through their genetic, developmental, experiential and social endowments are able to acquire, retain and utilize extensive knowledge of that world; and (2) the potential of animals for displaying language competencies is more closely approximated by examining receptive skills rather than productive abilities, bearing in mind that there are apparent substantial asymmetries in receptive and productive mechanisms, processes and skills." Point one of the conclusion speaks to the theories put forward by people that talk about the superior ability of BF to comprehend its world "at a glance". The perceptual capacity of animals are certainly different than human. I know on this forum there have been references to the ability of chimpanzees to process information quicker than humans. This article notes that that chimpanzees may, in effect, have cognition similar to human experience of synesthesia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia): http://staugnews.com/2012/06/18/one-smart-chimp-crushes-human-challenger.html Certainly humans use of and reliance on language is unique to humans. Language affects our perception of our world by creating mental metaphors of what we see, feel, taste, etc. For example, the Inuit language with dozens of words to describe various kinds of snow allows them to visualize the world of snow in a way that is much more nuanced than people with far more limited vocabularies related to the phenomenon of snow. The point of the original link notes that animals have perceptual capabilities that in my opinion may be largely independent of the construct of language, with faster "broadband" comprehension of their perception. This would be an absolute requirement for their survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Good article, however, I didn't find any conclusions that animals speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Owl Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Just my opinion based on multiple encounters....I have no earthly idea what they precisely are! I do know they are very much like us in many ways, but so very, very different in others! For those reading this who have personally seen their abilities and actions, no simple explanations will apply. I started out like most, thinking I was dealing with some dumb undiscovered primate. The more I learned over time, the surprises and questions far exceeded my answers! I have since quit trying to connect the dots which makes things much easier..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bipedalist Posted June 22, 2012 BFF Patron Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) I use the terms receptive (perceptive) and expressive (not productive) primarily. I see comprehension as a higher stage up from both. I'm sold on the higher perceptual and receptive capacities of Sasquatch. I have heard them being vocal with phonemic like utterances, so they are expressive. I believe there is at least rudimentary comprehension that human's could appreciate, I'm not clear on how that intelligence/speech crosses over to language/communicative intent and whether it is a form of higher order expressive logic or a form of representation formed as an imitative intent. I do know their imitative capacity incorporates long-term percpetual memory for auditory sequential information based on personal research and experience (that in and of itself is humbling enough) and gives one pause to think what else they are capable of thinking and how they use thought. My suspicion is that they understand humor, if that is the case I think you know where that leads (and I don't mean they know when to laugh when tickled, though they can probably laugh; maybe someone else can chime in on whether they are ticklish, lol). Agree with MidnightOwl in that the dots started behaving like they didn't want to become a directional signal after awhile. Edited June 22, 2012 by bipedalist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BFSleuth Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Splash, I think I may have found that article you were wanting to see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Twilight Fan Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 ^That article is fake. It's also a YouTube video reported from "The Onion." Total fake story. They used clips of Koko and Michael the gorillas and tried to pass them off as a single gorilla named "Quigley" which made no sense. The video news report was laughable, and in the end of the video the "news reporters" who were not real said that they were trying to teach bunnies they would die someday. The "reporter" then walked up to two white bunnies and shouted: "YOU ARE GOING TO DIE SOMEDAY!" Case / point: The story was made up for laughs. Not real at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gershake Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) I will grant that dolphins can communicate with each other, however, please show me a conversation between a human and a dolphin, using speech, where both know what is being communicated, without learned tricks. Also, please show me a conversation between two dolphins, where abstract thought process is being displayed. Not a dolphin but: http://en.wikipedia..../Koko_(gorilla)EDIT: I see this has already been brought up. Edited June 22, 2012 by gershake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 No, aside from superficial appearance to humans (head , two arms, two legs) it seems to display more ape like traits such as behavior, vocalizations, etc. I don't see any evidence of human behavior or human skills that go back millions of years (tool making, fire, etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Personally I feel they fall between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernyahoo Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) The question pertains to this discussion of sasquatch/bigfoot because of the question of whether or not sasquatches/bigfoot use speech/language. I would imagine that some folks would like to use that ability to differentiate whether they are human or ape. I have heard sounds that I believe were made by bigfoot like creatures, as some other people on this forum claim. Nothing in the sounds that I heard could be mistaken for speech. Just whoops, growls, mimics and whistles. Now, there was no doubt in my mind that the creatures were communicating........with each other and sometimes with me. And I believe the communications with me were telling me to get the hell out of there. SY, First, I don't get defensive about anything that gets posted on these forums. Second, I do distinguish my self from bigfoot creatures. Third, I do believe bigfoot creatures has sentience, as well as other animals. I just don't believe that any other creature in the animal world (that's for you, Mike) has the ability of speech. It takes alot of different physical and neural attributes, to be capable of speaking a complete language and it would be proof of culture because language has to be taught. If there is another on this planet that would have that ability, it would be bigfoot, trust me! You haven't heard all there is to hear or all the recordings, and the hardware is definately there. Edited June 22, 2012 by southernyahoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Perhaps when we get a live one to examine you could be right about their ability to make speech. I don't know, I have heard a lot of sounds personally and a lot of recordings produced by a lot of people and nothing in those sounds or recordings sounds hopeful that the creatures have the brain power to make speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TexasTracker Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Splash, Have you ever watched any of the videos, or read anything about "Koko" the gorilla. I'd have to look up specifics, but I believe to date, she is capable of signing 1000 words and comprehends over 2000 words spoken in English. What's interesting here is that we have an animal that was capable of learning our language and even expressing her feelings. When Koko's pet kitten died she was able to express her sadness... Her favorite food for a while was what she would sign as a "meat sandwich" I recall (her sign for a hamburger)... I think she combined the signs for "finger" and "bracelet" to come up with a name for a ring on someone's finger... It's interesting stuff to say the least. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 TexasTracker, Read a few of the posts up from here. Koko was already discussed. Splash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TexasTracker Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I think that's still one of the better examples of speech/thought process by a non-human. Agreed it has some subjectivity. They do a much better job of communicating in our language than we do in their's. Ultimately, it's too open for interpretation. I will leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BFSleuth Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 ^That article is fake. It's also a YouTube video reported from "The Onion." Total fake story. They used clips of Koko and Michael the gorillas and tried to pass them off as a single gorilla named "Quigley" which made no sense. The video news report was laughable, and in the end of the video the "news reporters" who were not real said that they were trying to teach bunnies they would die someday. The "reporter" then walked up to two white bunnies and shouted: "YOU ARE GOING TO DIE SOMEDAY!" Case / point: The story was made up for laughs. Not real at all. You are the winner of the "I really DO have a satire detector" award. (note the use of at the end of my post) The Onion is one of my favorite reads. It is unbelievable how many times people take the stories literally, though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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