Operation Persistence

[Guest]

The "X" area is most definitely "Squatchupied" and credible for the things mentioned in the podcast. I have had my own experiences in the same general area as others had.

[Guest Strick]

No I don't think they are hoaxing Dopey, myself and the TBRC have a past, they are just getting clued in to some of the same experiences that other groups have had. Number 1 being that there are places where they don't seem to leave. The TBRC had numerous things happen when they would camp at X throughout the five year operation forest vigil, but chose to just run camera traps.

It's true that some of the reports recounted by the TBRC at Area X reminded me of accounts from other groups in neighboring areas, particularly the MABRC. They have several podcasts that are detail activity very similar to the last two Bigfoot Shows.

Southernyahoo, I know you are very knowledgeable in the Biology field, especially DNA analysis and I respect your opinion. You appear to be saying that the TBRC may have been hampered by their reliance on technology, especially trail cams. Is that the case? Would you go so far as to say 'Blinded By Science'?

Hmmm! I hadn't considered that before but I can see that attracting Bigfoot ain't necessarily rocket science. Obviously you're not saying that beers and burgers are the way to go, if that was the case then half the campers in America would be Bigfoot experts by now. However, I can see that you could be so busy examining the contents of your memory card on your MacBook Pro that you fail to notice the 'Wood Ape' looking over your shoulder.....

To be fair to Brian, he has implied that he's prepared to reassess everything he thought was true in the past, including habituation scenarios - as well as to stop putting so much faith in those bloody trail cams!

[Guest]

I think the term "wood ape" is simply a PR spin to attempt to keep the unknown sounding as primitive as possible in order to justify a personal agenda. I think many researchers and groups continue to put their own spin on things, and move forward in vague secretive ways, for what ever reasons they perceive they need to. I personally look forward to proper discovery, and validation of whatever this species is, if nothing else, to end this continuing circus of secrets, belief, ridicule, and self proclaimed expertise.

Having said that, I can understand a lot of the "secrecy" and with holding of evidence that appears to go on, considering the wall of ridicule any good evidence faces. I think some of the most disturbing ridicule comes from some of the researchers themselves, who believe they have the answers, and anything out side of their own theory, or that may threaten to be a more valid or advanced observation than their own, should be immediately shut down, or cast in the shadow of doubt.

All I can say is, proceed with caution, because you might find your selves more accountable for your actions than you think. Ignorance is not an excuse, and using terms like "wood ape" or attempting to put a specific spin of definitions of species, or evidence collected,will not necessarily protect someone from an ill conceived , impatient, collection of a specimen. If you don't know what your collecting, then its foolish to kill it, to see.

[Guest Dr. Boogie]

I always just put the phrase "Wood Ape" down to being a colloquialism or just a local name for Bigfoot (like "Skunk Ape" for example).

[Guest]

I'm probably the only actual offender here since my posts have generally been off of the OP's topic. My apologies. All of your legitimate constructive criticisms in response to my post, acknowledged and accepted.

For the record, I am not a member of the TBRC, and I do not know any TBRC members. None of my friendships or social activities have anything to do with the BF subject. There is no sad conspiracy to promote the TBRC here. I'm very sorry I derailed this thread. If you are a person (or group) who has made a signifigant investment of your time and resources toward solving the mystery, and you have freely and truthfully shared the results of your investigations, then thank you. It is sincerely appreciated.

There are all types of people interested in the BF phenomenon for many different reasons. It's bad enough that there are so many hoaxers and people who regularly fabricate fantastic tales of encounters. Any rational person would be skeptical of the veracity of some of the claims made. But among the serious and legitimate investigators who are persuing scientific evidence and tangible proof of existence, I honestly don't understand the animosity and hostility between the various research camps. The TBRC seems to have accomplished a milestone in the continuous uninterrupted field study of these animals in one area. They graciously and freely shared information thay feel may be valuable to others. I have no problem admitting that I think that these operations were ambitious and impressive, and that I personally do not doubt what is being reported is truthful and accurate. That doesn't mean that I think this is the TBRC appreciation forum. I think that the fact that a member took a shot at one is probably the reason that many people are rather sour on the organization in general. I'm not 100% sure what I would do if presented the opportunity, and I'm fairly certain that not all TBRC members approve, but I'm not going to fault someone else (let alone a diverse group working towards one general goal) for making that decision for themselves. They are not an officially recognized species, and no laws were broken.

[southernyahoo]

Southernyahoo, I know you are very knowledgeable in the Biology field, especially DNA analysis and I respect your opinion. You appear to be saying that the TBRC may have been hampered by their reliance on technology, especially trail cams. Is that the case? Would you go so far as to say 'Blinded By Science'?

I wouldn't say blinded by science, but maybe blinded by a faith in the technology and or blinded by a perception of the quary. Other researchers had noted long ago that the cameras influenced activity around witnesses homes, but this was likely thought to be coincidental observations and hasty conclusions.

Hmmm! I hadn't considered that before but I can see that attracting Bigfoot ain't necessarily rocket science. Obviously you're not saying that beers and burgers are the way to go, if that was the case then half the campers in America would be Bigfoot experts by now. However, I can see that you could be so busy examining the contents of your memory card on your MacBook Pro that you fail to notice the 'Wood Ape' looking over your shoulder.....

No it isn't rocket science, and not recommending just burgers and beer, though you do have to eat. It is a good point that one can get too preoccupied with the gear, but you have to use it if your going to come home with more than a story to tell, and the gear has to be capable in many different situations.

[southernyahoo]

He may be referring to the fact that we can get our trucks down to the area and it is, therefore, essentially car squatchin'. Difference being, paved roads are two hours away.

If there's one thing I know from my research, people don't camp more than 50 yards from a vehicle of some sort, at least not a base camp that is to be their stash of supplies for a week or more in the field.

So the proximity of vehicles, camp and bigfoot activity are pretty much a given based on info so far.

[Guest]

Your description of this creature is so different than what we have been fed over the years, I'm wondering if you could explain what they look like by using monkeys or apes features as a guide.

I don't think they're different than what we've been "fed" at all. They look like both the PGF and other descriptions out there.

Also does this creature look anything like the Justin smeja pictures of the adult and juvenile he helped create?

Anyone with a passing understanding of what a wood ape is supposed to look like could come up with what he did. The biggest issue I have with it is the proportions of the limbs to the body (they look too much like human proportions, from what I recall).

I think the term "wood ape" is simply a PR spin to attempt to keep the unknown sounding as primitive as possible in order to justify a personal agenda.

It's based on observation. They act like apes. Very much like chimps, gorillas, with a pinch of orang. They do ape-like things, so we call them apes.

If there's one thing I know from my research, people don't camp more than 50 yards from a vehicle of some sort, at least not a base camp that is to be their stash of supplies for a week or more in the field.

The one time we camped way out in the woods for a week, distant from both the cabins and the road, we had essentially zero activity. No idea why. They seem to be very much invested in that specific area, not the larger region.

[Guest]

I would recommend anyone to listen to the Bipcast podcast just called 'Area X', I think it came out in 2008 or thereabouts. It does describe some activity at the location but the tone is completely different from the last two Bigfoot Shows, it's a lot more subdued and workmanlike.

Our approach back then was radically different. Quick trips in and out over no more than a few nights just to service cameras. The idea being, we would be more likely to get a picture if we minimized human 'contamination' of the area. It was only when Daryl shifted our approach to something more akin to traditional primate research that we were able to connect some unrecognized dots and started to have more intense interaction.

[Guest BFSleuth]

During your time at the cabins, how do you store your food and your garbage? You've described that they seem to have more connection to the cabins than if you get out away from the cabins for a few nights. I'm wondering whether their primary focus (other than to monitor human activity in "their" area) might be looking for opportunities to get some food? The smell of cooking or of rotting garbage would certainly be an attractant.

[Guest]

The food is in coolers and other covered plastic bins. The garbage is in large trash bags that we take out every week or so. They may be interested in the food, but I can only think of one time we thought they may have been messing with it and that was, we believe, a fox or raccoon or something. Not an ape.

We do often cook over the fire. That could serve as an attractant for all manner of wildlife.

[Guest]

@Bipto,

It sounds like it is not an uncommon event for the "cabin slapping" type activity to occur when everyone seems to be inside quietly sleeping. I have heard you mention that you guys have an excess numer of game cams. Would it be possible for you to place game cams spread out along the walls of the entire perimeter of the occupied cabin, positioned in a way that nothing could approach the cabin without being in the field of view of one or more cameras? If you have enough cameras positioned correctly, this could only lead to two positive results. Either you will get better sleep without being startled when an animal strikes the cabin at night, or you will finally get a photo of one on the game cams. It seems like this would be a good strategy to either get a photo, or gain back some personal space after dark.

Also, have any members actually seen any of these animals faces? If so could you please describe the skin color, or variations of skin color. I find the variation in hair and possibly skin color among these individual animals incredibly fascinating.

Have you guys discussed whether "Old Grey" appears to be that color because of age, or because of genetics?

Are any more interviews or details intended to be released any time soon? Or do we just have to listen to Scott ask you those painfully obvious questions for the next several episodes? (Could it have been a bear? Was it a bear? Did anyone else see it?)

There was a particular TBRC member who spent seven cumulative days alone in "Area X". Sleeping out there alone would require a level of testicular fortitude of which I am not positive I could muster. I would love to hear more of the details of his experiences beyond what was discussed in episode #39. It seems that the animals might possibly be somewhat encouraged and emboldened by feeling like they only had one straggler left to run off.

[Guest]

It sounds like it is not an uncommon event for the "cabin slapping" type activity to occur when everyone seems to be inside quietly sleeping. I have heard you mention that you guys have an excess numer of game cams. Would it be possible for you to place game cams spread out along the walls of the entire perimeter of the occupied cabin, positioned in a way that nothing could approach the cabin without being in the field of view of one or more cameras?

That's the thing that's most perplexing. When the cameras are present, they avoid them. They will not approach. When the cameras are down, they come in. I alluded to it on BFS 38 but didn't connect the point. Once we took all the cameras up on the mountain side, we had a lot of activity near the cabin. When the cameras were up, we didn't. We have no idea how or why they're so good at avoiding them, but we can't argue with the observation that when cameras are present, they aren't.

Also, have any members actually seen any of these animals faces? If so could you please describe the skin color, or variations of skin color. I find the variation in hair and possibly skin color among these individual animals incredibly fascinating.

I don't believe so. If I'm wrong about that, I'll come back here and let you know.

Have you guys discussed whether "Old Grey" appears to be that color because of age, or because of genetics?

At length. We went back and looked at the encounter database and found a minority yet still significant of accounts describe a white or grey animal. If it's age, then this guy's a virile old coot. I think it's genetic.

Are any more interviews or details intended to be released any time soon?

I don't have anything planned at the moment.

(Could it have been a bear? Was it a bear? Did anyone else see it?)

You know, the very first thing Alton Higgins asked me when I related our sighting was whether or not it could have been a bear. And quite right, too. Even though I told essentially the same tale to him that I did on the show, you have to be able to ask those questions (and be prepared to answer them). As soon as you stop asking and challenging, you've lost the ability to stay grounded.

There was a particular TBRC member who spent seven cumulative days alone in "Area X". Sleeping out there alone would require a level of testicular fortitude of which I am not positive I could muster. I would love to hear more of the details of his experiences beyond what was discussed in episode #39. It seems that the animals might possibly be somewhat encouraged and emboldened by feeling like they only had one straggler left to run off.

Travis has the fortitude, to be sure. He has a lot of interesting stories to tell. I hope we'll tell them someday.

[Guest]

The TBRC has published its first article on evidence collected during Persistence.

http://texasbigfoot.com/index.php/about-bigfoot/articles/224-possible-wood-ape-hairs-persistence

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

You know it's serious business when a place gets the name "Area-X"

Edited September 8, 2012 by OntarioSquatch