Operation Persistence

[Guest]

It's my understanding that chimps have been observed mimicking speech. Regardless, we believe they're excellent mimics, voices or otherwise.

For example: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/12/science/12monkey.html?pagewanted=all

And...

[Guest FootDude]

It was. It's our opinion that's mimicry of human speech, not speech itself.

I'm not aware of any wild ape or chimp being able to mimic 'human speech' in any way approximating the samurai sounds. if this is indeed bigfoot making those sounds, it would seem to me he's 'evolved' reasonably far beyond that of the 'wood ape' you and your group have chosen to call them.

[Guest VioletX]

That was very interesting Bipto, I did not know that some primates used words/sounds like that.. But maybe the Bigfoot's abilities are a step above the chimps and apes in your examples. I bet that Monkey had a lot of training to say Mama, and I doubt anyone is training the Sasquatch

[Guest FootDude]

It's my understanding that chimps have been observed mimicking speech. Regardless, we believe they're excellent mimics, voices or otherwise.

For example: http://www.nytimes.c...?pagewanted=all

And...

2 points:

1. learning one word 'mama' is far flung from being speech or sentences like the 'Samurai sounds'

2. That chimpanzee was probably painstakingly taught that one word by someone. Samurai sounds have been learned by Bigfoot in the wild.

Two completely different things.

[Guest]

I heard some audio once, BIpto, that was from the TBRC of apparent Bigfoot sounds, and it was a voice telling the others to "get back" etc, do you recall what I am talking about? I would like to hear it again, but found it only once,and neglected to copy or book mark it.

I don't know what to think of the speech, some of the sierra stuff I have heard is clearly language, and interaction, and other stuff, like the samurai chatter, just does not seem like a language. I am no expert however, but it all is fascinating to listen to.

Some of the audio evidence is the most puzzling.

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

Some might disagree with this, but I don't believe it is mimicry. I think people are hearing some kind of actual language. Like the type we use. Which could only be coming from a species belonging to the genus Homo...

[Guest]

I'm not aware of any wild ape or chimp being able to mimic 'human speech' in any way approximating the samurai sounds. if this is indeed bigfoot making those sounds, it would seem to me he's 'evolved' reasonably far beyond that of the 'wood ape' you and your group have chosen to call them.

There's no reason to think it's speech. Primates vocalize, as all animals do, and some of that vocalization might have meaning, but that's not language. The NYTimes article is a good to read to understand how animals use "meaningful sounds" that are simple nothing like language and syntax and the like.

2. That chimpanzee was probably painstakingly taught that one word by someone. Samurai sounds have been learned by Bigfoot in the wild.

Two completely different things.

In the same way any animal learns to mimic another. You're making a huge assumption unsupported by any observable facts. Besides, the original comment was "non-human primates can't mimic human speech" and that's incorrect.

I think people are hearing some kind of actual language. Like the type we use. Which could only be coming from a species belonging to the genus Homo...

An opinion. Your logical chain is, it sounds like words to me so therefore they have language so therefore they're Homo. But to me, they sound like something else. That's my opinion.

I heard some audio once, BIpto, that was from the TBRC of apparent Bigfoot sounds, and it was a voice telling the others to "get back" etc, do you recall what I am talking about? I would like to hear it again, but found it only once,and neglected to copy or book mark it.

You're talking about this:

http://bigfootproject.org/TBRC/TBRC_OE_voc.mp3

[bipedalist]

I found the podcast great i really enjoyed it, but the whole having speech patterns was a little much for me. just IMHO

How so? Can you explain. Do you believe they mimic speech, have language, or mutter Samurai for their daily TM (j/k on the last one).?

Edited September 11, 2012 by bipedalist

[southernyahoo]

It's my understanding that chimps have been observed mimicking speech. Regardless, we believe they're excellent mimics, voices or otherwise.

For example: http://www.nytimes.c...?pagewanted=all

And...

I figured you'd probably find that clip of the chimp muttering "muhmuh". The truth is chimps and other apes are prognathus and have their tongues are positioned almost entirely in the oral cavity of the vocal tract. They differ from the human vocal tract where the tongue is positioned farther back creating the midpoint discontinuity profered by Leiberman et al. This enables the human vocal tract to produce a greater range and more distinctive vowel sounds, thus the ability to convey encoded abstract information. This is a another "clue" when you can correlate the vowels in recordings with the human quantal vowels of /a/ /i/ and /u/. Anthropologists are locked in a debate whether Neanderthals could do this, and they feel they will never settle it, unless of coarse, we find one extant.http://sjohn30.tripod.com/id1.html

[Guest]

It's entirely possible that the vocal tract of a wood ape is sufficient to make human-like sounds. I would say it's likely. That doesn't mean they speak or have language. I can make funny lines appear on an oscilloscope, but I have no idea how to use it productively.

[southernyahoo]

This is just a suggestion, but if it is speaking to you, it has a human vocal tract. Speech sounds are grounded in physics, and known required physiology. Any ape that can reproduce those sounds is considered genus homo by science. If you have new recordings of that, I would like to hear it.

[Guest VioletX]

I am confused ,(don't worry that happens often in this forum), if the chimp is genus pan I think, and is saying Mama, then does it have a human type vocal tract????

[Guest Shaun]

Just a little advanced friendly notice :-)

Please don't let this thread slip into the morality of killing a specimen, or what Bigfoot is or isn't.

Bipto is kindly sharing what the TBRC are doing with all of us here, and the information is useful to lots of people. Let's stick to questions on Operation Persistence please.

[Guest VioletX]

I figured you'd probably find that clip of the chimp muttering "muhmuh". The truth is chimps and other apes are prognathus and have their tongues are positioned almost entirely in the oral cavity of the vocal tract. They differ from the human vocal tract where the tongue is positioned farther back creating the midpoint discontinuity profered by Leiberman et al. This enables the human vocal tract to produce a greater range and more distinctive vowel sounds, thus the ability to convey encoded abstract information. This is a another "clue" when you can correlate the vowels in recordings with the human quantal vowels of /a/ /i/ and /u/. Anthropologists are locked in a debate whether Neanderthals could do this, and they feel they will never settle it, unless of coarse, we find one extant.http://sjohn30.tripod.com/id1.html

Just wanted to say sorry SouthernYahoo, I did not see this before my last post.

Thanks Shaun, back on track again!!!

[Guest poignant]

Bipto:

Were the wood apes observed to have hooded noses or flared noses?