Guest Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 When was the last time you heard a story of a wild chimpanzee or ape arbitrarily mimicking human speech and sentences like we hear in the 'samurai sounds'??? You're operating from the view point that the Samurai Sounds are real. That's still up for debate.
Guest FootDude Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) I have no idea. As I've said before, they act like apes. They don't act like people. They're smart, but then so are chimps and gorillas. To me (and others in the TBRC) they are apes. You make these assessments based on observation. If I may ask, what is the longest extended period of time any individual in your group has clearly observed: 1. a single individual? Was that individual doing anything other than walking? 2. 2 individuals interacting with each other? What were they doing? 3. more than 2 individuals or a small group interacting with one another? What were they doing? How often has your group observed individuals interacting with one another? Is this a regular occurrence, or something that occurs rather infrequently? BTW thank you very much for posting your observations here, as well as the interviews on the TBRC website. You're operating from the view point that the Samurai Sounds are real. No I am not. I'm not aware of any wild ape or chimp being able to mimic 'human speech' in any way approximating the samurai sounds. if this is indeed bigfoot making those sounds, it would seem to me he's 'evolved' reasonably far beyond that of the 'wood ape' you and your group have chosen to call them. However 'samurai sounds' or similar vocalizations are something that have been documented a number of times and should be considered in the context of this discussion. I believe that even bipto mentioned a recording earlier of what they believe was a bigfoot either mimicking or communicating ("get back") through human type vocalizations. Edited September 12, 2012 by FootDude
Guest Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) As far as I know... My point. I believe that even bipto mentioned a recording earlier of what they believe was a bigfoot either mimicking or communicating ("get back") through human type vocalizations. No, I NEVER said I thought it was communicating. We presume that vocalization was made by an ape. And it's only "human-like" for the parts in which it doesn't sound like a cave troll. 1. a single individual? Was that individual doing anything other than walking? 2. 2 individuals interacting with each other? What were they doing? 3. more than 2 individuals or a small group interacting with one another? What were they doing? We've collectively seen individuals walking, running, looking inquisitively, and charging. We've had one encounter with two individuals (mine) and they were running away from us. We've never seen more than two together. Sheesh! How did you guys ever get any sleep? There comes a point that you're so damned tired that even a 800 pound monkey throwing rocks won't get you out of bed. Edited September 12, 2012 by bipto
southernyahoo Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 Didn't the rain of rocks have that feel of Ape Canyon? The behavior seemed to follow after one was shot. It would show they have a long term memory and a sense of vengeance if there is any correlation there. Bipto you said this occurred on the last day, Was that the last day your team was there, or the official last day of operation persistence?
Guest Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) The sound was recorded on the last morning of the Labor Day weekend and had happened each of the three days the team was present. It was the first time we had experienced the behavior. This was not part of Persistence, it was an ad-hoc operation. WRT Ape Canyon, many of us have remarked about the similarities between our experiences and those claimed by Fred Beck. However, the debris rain didn't happen in conjunction with a shooting incident. I don't think one can make a causal connection. Edited September 12, 2012 by bipto
Guest FootDude Posted September 12, 2012 Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) We've collectively seen individuals walking, running, looking inquisitively, and charging. We've had one encounter with two individuals (mine) and they were running away from us. We've never seen more than two together. 1. What is the longest sighting anyone has ever had? I've listened to the podcast and the impression I get is that most if not all the sightings last for just a few seconds. Although I may disagree with some of your assessments and the goal of 'harvesting' a Bigfoot, I very much appreciate all the hard work and time your group is putting into this, as well as your taking the time to share with us lots of what's going on. I've been following and posting since the old forums for a number of years years, and this is by far the most interesting line of research any Bigfoot group has ever done. Edited September 12, 2012 by FootDude
Guest Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 1. What is the longest sighting anyone has ever had? I've listened to the podcast and the impression I get is that most if not all the sightings last for just a few seconds. Most are less than five seconds. The longest has been about eight (which doesn't sound very long, but in the spectrum of random wildlife encounters, actually is in my experience). Although I may disagree with some of your assessments and the goal of 'harvesting' a Bigfoot, I very much appreciate all the hard work and time your group is putting into this, as well as your taking the time to share with us lots of what's going on. I've been following and posting since the old forums for a number of years years, and this is by far the most interesting line of research any Bigfoot group has ever done. Thanks, I'll pass that along.
dopelyrics Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) Bipto, I've just listened to some of the latest podcast and it is really great so far. I know you've answered some of the questions on there that have been posed here, on the JREF and Facebook. Can I ask a couple more: if the DNA studies ever see the light of day, and they come back as human etc', will that change the TBRC's policy of trying to bring a dead one of these things in? Also, have you ever thought about capturing one alive? Best. Lee Edited September 13, 2012 by dopelyrics
Guest Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 ...if the DNA studies ever see the light of day, and they come back as human etc', will that change the TBRC's policy of trying to bring a dead one of these things in? I am unqualified to say whether or not DNA alone can identify something as "human." Had we not already known about chimps, wouldn't their DNA look a heck of a lot like a human's? For me, "humanism" comes from more than just an animal's genes. That's why we don't believe they are "human." They don't act like humans. They act like gorillas and chimps. That said, our observations drive our research. If we observed something that indicated they were more than apes, I am confident it would lead to a change in tactics. Also, have you ever thought about capturing one alive? How? A cage? How do you lure it in there? It'd have to be huge and very strong and hard to hide. A pit? It'd have to be quite deep and broad. And do you leave those traps in place when you're not there? Another person could inadvertently get trapped or you'd come back and find a dead ape anyway due to lack or food or water or injuries it sustained by trying to escape or from when it got trapped in the first place. Drugs? Really hard to use and they don't work instantaneously. The animal would likely tear off and you'd never find it. There's also a good chance you'd over-medicate it and kill it anyway. Let's pretend all that's worked out and you get one. Then what? Do you take it with you? How? Where would it live? It'd probably die in a cage in a lab somewhere or on the way to it. Do you medicated it and do some kind of field examination? Again, how much medication? Where do you get it? Care to be the guy to climb in the cage with a measuring tape and syringe when you don't know then the 8-foot-tall, 1,000 lb beast you just pissed off is going to wake up? Plus, you know, it's still got friends in the neighborhood. Think they'd sit idly by as you poke and prod their vocal buddy? Live capture is incredibly complicated. My BFS cohost Scott Herriott would say killing one is the easy way out, but, IMO, it's only easy when compared with the virtually impossible. If it was so easy, why haven't we or someone else done it yet? That said, our observations drive our research. If we observed something that indicated they were more than apes, I am confident it would lead to a change in tactics. I'll also add that if and when any legitimate research comes out on the subject, we will, of course, consider it and how it pertains to our research.
dopelyrics Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) Thank you for the response Bipto. Incredibly complicated, maybe. But impossible? I honestly don't know. That's why I asked. The points you raise are extremely valid and I agree with them. And your answers suggest you have thought about it, which is what I asked in the first place. I don't think there are that many animals that we haven't managed to capture yet, and keep, relatively successfully, in captivity. Even the Great White Shark. For many years people said that such an animal couldn't be kept in captivity. We now know that it can, for a while at least. Let's hope its friends in the neighbourhood don't object too much to you shooting one of their family dead then. I'm not sure they'd sit idly by while someone shot one , let alone drug one, then a crew of you went after it to truss it up and bring it back. I guess the answer is to take any second guessing out of the equation in terms of strength of drugs to bring it down, the possibility that it may die in the cage or on the way to the lab anyway etc etc. If it's for the greater good then, and all other options are out of the equation, then, reluctantly, I think maybe killing one is the way to go. Best regards, Lee Edited September 13, 2012 by dopelyrics
Guest Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 ...your answers suggest you have thought about it, which is what I asked in the first place. Yep, we have. I know other big animals have been captured, but the ones doing that have years of experience doing so and lots of resources. Our resources are limited all the way around. It's virtually impossible. Impossible for us to pull off, to be sure. We hope our efforts will lead someone more qualified and better equipped to give it a shot (so to speak) in the future.
dopelyrics Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 Well best of luck to you guys. It's all very exciting and a lot scary - and that's just for me listening to the podcasts! Best regards, Lee
Cotter Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 Bipto - you commented 8 foot, 1,000 lb creature. Have you seen one that would fit this bill? Or was that comment an exaggeration to make a point? Thx!
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