Operation Persistence

[Guest]

I must say I enjoyed that read. The only question I have at this time is the confusion with the dna lab. Bipto claims they ripped off the tbrc, but you're saying they did the work and it was to degraded for results. Could you clear that up.

Thanks

[southernyahoo]

SY, is it your belief that if the TBRC knew, I mean, really KNEW that their so-called wood apes were actually humans, that they would still attempt to kill one?

It is an interesting situation, but one I expected. I think they've had the opportunity to "know" as much as I do. They have willfully stayed away from the DNA efforts until recently. Perception of what they are governs their actions, not a scientific knowledge from biological evidence. I simply advocate a "know before you shoot" policy and they are not hamstrung on this. Sykes says he can extract DNA from hair shafts, and I doubt that if DNA is there, it degrades rapidly. They have other samples but didn't test them. I don't think they "really" want to know until "they" take a specimen.

[Guest]

I did not see him talk any smack . I saw a man that gave good explanations of why he did not fire . If you are aiming at eye shine how could you be anything other than uncertain as to what your target is ? A 60 yard shot can be "quite simple" it can also be quite hard . Do you feel threatened , is target moving ? If it is how much deflection ? What is the elevation ? What is the wind doing ? Can your target hunt back ? Shooting at a pop bottle on a fence at 60 yards is not what is going on here . I don't have much experience with civilian cartridges . I did a little looking based on a hunch . A shot with a 45-70 would be easier at 200 yards than 60 because of its ballistics . With anything over 250 grains for the bullet . I would want something with a higher muzzle velocity . The single most important factor in bringing anything down is shot placement . I would want the flattest trajectory possible to make the shot as easy as it could be . I think I would prefer a a magnum round in the .30 caliber range for my shooter . Either a shotgun or a big bore for the guys I would have protecting my rear and flanks . I am even having some doubts about the shotgun . I would need to learn more about penetration of 12 gauge slugs before I went that route .

Edited October 8, 2012 by orygundewd

[Guest BFSleuth]

It seems you talk a lot of schmack about how well armed you are, but at 60 yards with a 45-70 wouldn't it be quite a simple shot to split the eyeshine?

Speaking of talking schmack, how much hunting have you done for big game in difficult terrain?

[Guest Suesquach]

Mayo, thanks for the informative and detailed post. I wish you and all of the TBRC members good luck in the procurement of a specimen.

[Drew]

Speaking of talking schmack, how much hunting have you done for big game in difficult terrain?

I would only shoot my licensed-for species, and I would most likely use a bow. So it would be very very close to me 10-20 yards. Sometimes the animals just don't know you're there. It's really crazy how close animals will come to you when you are in a tree.

[Guest BFSleuth]

That is an excellent point, Drew. This does beg the question of the Operation Persistence members to ask whether they have considered using tree stands or blinds. It may be difficult to get into place without being observed, but if this could be done then it may be a way to either get outstanding video or an open and close range shot. Most of the lengthy sighting reports I've read are from hunters in tree stands or hunters in camo that are in place waiting for game to come by.

[Guest baboonpete]

Yeah, cause it's modern human samples they are sending in...not wood apes-bigfoot-sasquatch samples.

So OS, gotta ask you a question. Say aliens come down to earth...they have a head, two arms, two legs, walk on two legs and are hairless. Are they human?

no Humans have hair.

[Guest mdhunter]

BFS, Mayo2 states that he was in a blind. I don't think the post specified if it was elevated or not. I got the impression there was method involved.

He also mentions suspected following behavior. There is a time tested and proven method for other species of one hunter following another at a distance. Allowing game animal time to check out who/what just walked through. Second person is far enough behind to intersect game.The second person should be the stealthier of the two. Most animals semi intelligent will circle back on their own trail to see if they are being followed. They tend to do this from a high observation point. Humans are known to do this also.

edit: left the word time out

Edited October 8, 2012 by mdhunter

[Drew]

Commas, they are your friend.

I assume you mean "No, humans have hair."

In which I would show you this.

atavism — or an evolutionary throwback. An atavism is a trait that reappears which had once disappeared generations ago. This happens mostly likely thru a backward mutation but it can also happen thru transposable elements within the genome, i.e., the ‘hairy gene’ was locked away in a region of the genome that was not expressed but then was shuffled and inserted into an expressable region.

http://anthropology....irless-primate/

So perhaps, they are evolution-advanced humans, who have lost the ability to have any hair, yet are still humans.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Drew

[Guest]

We have only one area with some yardage for a shot. That is about 75 yrds max. That is where I was and several others when they have been seen.

Everywhere else is less then 40 yrds max. The cover is way too thick.

By the time you see one, he is already out of view in cover. Just like in Bipto and Hairyman's sighting.

By the time you even get over there, it is gone.

You never know when they are going to show up, and inevitably many times it is when your weapon is not in reach.

I have had two events where I saw the apes eye shine. Both times no gun in my hand. One was the first incident I spoke of. The second was 330 am and I got up to pee and he/she was outside the window about 10 feet and my red headlamp illuminated his eyes bright green and he turned his head and ran off. The critter was gone as soon as light was shined at him. And by gone I mean he turned his head and ran or walked away. So to demonstrate how difficult it would be to get him, I will tell you that yes, I ran for my gun, ran outside in nothing but underwear, and lit up the entire area around with a light. But he was already in the bush and couldn't get any further eye shine. None of the other 3 with me got out of bed. Why? Exhausted from days of playing chase.

We have used blinds. Try sitting in a blind when it is 102 F outside, all camoed up for 8 hours. You do not want to do it again. You certainly won't do it for days on end.

In regards to the DNA lab and being ripped off. Maybe that was a poor choice of words.

The sample sent was tested by myself with Luminol and demonstrated blood on the rock. And by blood I mean the luminol bound to the heme of the hemoglobin. It doesn't detect DNA.

We sent it to the lab and the lab said they could not pull any DNA off of it.

So we paid them and got no results is what happened. We feel "ripped off" because we know there was blood there.

However, we understand that days of baking in the sun and UV light degrade DNA and there was only one drop of blood on this sample and perhaps that was the problem.

When Sykes wants the others we will send.

We are NOT concerned that it will show up as Homo sapien. They are not Homo sapiens.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Mayo2

[Guest crabshack]

Maybe get rid of the camo gear, dress for the outdoors in earth tones, you are probably not fooling them anyway. Don't set yourselves up for friendly fire.

Now you know to have a slung firearm at all times on you, after all its kind of like a little war you got going.

[ShadowBorn]

You know that you have chances of shooting them but they are watching. 40 yard shot is not a hard shot to take with a rifle or a shotgun but yet when you reach for it they are gone .But like you said they are ape so what make them run away when you reach for that gun. If they are ape like they should have no knowledge of what a rifle ,pistol,or shotgun is.ape makes them a wild creature. So where is the intelligence that they appantly have in order to evade. It should be like hunting where you set up bait and you sit over that bait and wait it out ,you sit and they come and you shoot. It should be that easy but it is not .so how much longer will it be before you actually retrieve a body. Sure it takes time and you can keep saying that they are ape but how long will the game play out with them.The truth is there and sooner or later it will come out.My question is how long will it be ?

[Drew]

Mayo-

How many different members have taken a shot at one of the beasts?

[Guest]

Well as far as the apes running when a gun is grabbed, my buddies dog runs off every time we pick up a firearm in his presences. Learned behavior.

Edited October 8, 2012 by squatting squatch